Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 07:29 PM

I recently bought a 3" S&W model 629 Talo Edition (http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...058#post670058)

Well, I went shooting for the second time and after cleaning of the usual burns on the outside of the cylinder I noticed that there were small pits in front of each chamber. I marked them on the following image (it was hard to see in the image). They are very small, equal in size, and on the outside of every chamber.

Is this normal?
Will they get deeper?

I have never noticed this on my Ruger Redhawk or S&W model 29 (but they both have longer barrels).

Is this a result of the shorter barrel?
Will this problem worsen or ultimately damage the weapon?

FYI, I only used standard pressure factory ammo.

Name: 44 Magnum S&W Model 629-9 Deluxe Talo Edition location of piting.jpg
Views: 147
Size: 53.8 KB

Name: 44 Magnum S&W Model 629-9 Deluxe Talo Edition location of piting.jpg
Views: 147
Size: 53.8 KB

johnlives4christ · 09-13-2010, 07:31 PM

i dont see an image of it. but pits in the chamber are not normal.

armedandsafe · 09-13-2010, 07:32 PM

The image didn't make it.

Pops

armedandsafe · 09-13-2010, 07:38 PM

Now it shows.

I can't really see them well enough to tell anything, Try it again, without flash.

From the location you are indicating, on the outside of the cylinder, nothing there would be affected by long or short barrel. If you are indicating where you see pits inside the cylinder, that is another story.

Pops

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 07:40 PM

No they are on the outside of the cylinder. Prior to my cleaning half the cylinder was burned black.

It took me an hour to remove the burns with Hoppe's

-

johnlives4christ · 09-13-2010, 07:43 PM

from your description, i believe the pits are inside the chamber... but i could be wrong.

there shouldnt be any pits though inside the chambers from firing. are you sure that it's pits, and not some type of build up?

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 07:47 PM

Nope. Its like they are little holes (they look like tiny dents) on the outside of the chambers.

It you move a finger nail on the outside of the cylinder it will stick in the "hole/pit/dent" thing.

I will remark that they are very small, maybe 1mm at most. But they are symetrically placed in the front of every chamber.

johnlives4christ · 09-13-2010, 08:01 PM

odd, i have never heard of that before. i will say they are not from firing, the cylinder will not touch the frame either top or bottom. i would guess that it is an err from manufacturing.

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 08:07 PM

I could swear they weren't there before I fired, but I could be wrong.
It is so weird I have been using revolvers in large bore calibers all my life and I have never seen this either.

My only thought is a question: Could this be caused by the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone being too large?

A kind of flame cutting from escaping gases enveloping the cylinder?

johnlives4christ · 09-13-2010, 08:50 PM

i dont think it could be flame cutting. it could be that you only now are noticing it but it's been there the whole time. i dont know though, i've never had a 44 magnum revolver.

old semperfi · 09-13-2010, 09:49 PM

the small pits are probably from too much clearance between the cylinder and forcing cone.this will allow hot gasses to come back against the frt of the cylinder.i have seen them before and usually if you dont wait too long they are easily removed.i would suggest cleaning both the frount of the forcing cone and the frt of cylinders. using an automotive type feeler gauge mic the clearence between them.i try and keep mine between 2 1/2 tight to four thousands of an inch.i would suggest if it is way over to take it to a good gunsmith and see if it cant be shimmed. old semperfi

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 10:06 PM

old semperfi, will firing it in this condition damage the weapon over time?

John'sWife · 09-13-2010, 10:09 PM

i've never heard of gas cutting on the side of the cylinder like that. what is the barrel cylinder gap?

son of a buck.. this is the wifes profile,sorry this is johnlives4christ

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 10:15 PM

Quote:

what is the barrel cylinder gap?

I don't know. I don't have calipers or a feeler gauge to measure. I might stop in to my gunsmith tomorrow and have him measure it.

johnlives4christ · 09-13-2010, 10:22 PM

a match book cover is just about .010. if a matchbook cover will fit, then the gap is too large

mesinge2 · 09-13-2010, 10:58 PM

I tired a match book cover. It would not fit.
So I tried a sheet of copy paper after I looked up online that copy paper is 0.004 of an inch.
It fit one piece of paper. Then I tried two pieces at the same time and it was a no go.
In my wierd experiment it must be between than 0.004 and 0.008 of an inch wide.

old semperfi · 09-14-2010, 06:26 PM

good idea,take it to a good gunsmith.i still think you may have a cylinder clearance problem,nothing else could do it,and yes,gases can cut into the cylinder.i have had two 686 smiths and i run 10,000 rounds thru them before i retime,clean,and sell them.i am now on my third.the normal shooter will probably not ever shoot that much thru a pistol to notice problems. old semperfi

mesinge2 · 09-14-2010, 08:08 PM

The gunsmith told me that I should contact Smith & Wesson and send it to them for a repair service.
The problem is the front screw for the rear sight had a bur that was contacting the cylinder during rotation.
The screw no longer has the bur. It must have been shaved off during firing.

johnlives4christ · 09-14-2010, 09:01 PM

i'd definitely contact smith and wesson and send it in. try to get them to pay shipping both ways. if you cannot get them to pay shipping both ways, i would suggest sending it ground ups or fedex. i cannot go through the post office unless you have an FFL. the law does not mandate that the goes next day air through ups/fedex, it is only their private policy so you can just send it ground, unless they xray it or open it then you'll be fine. if they do find the gun they will return the package to you. and do insure it.

09-13-2010, 07:29 PM	#1
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners I recently bought a 3" S&W model 629 Talo Edition (http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...058#post670058) Well, I went shooting for the second time and after cleaning of the usual burns on the outside of the cylinder I noticed that there were small pits in front of each chamber. I marked them on the following image (it was hard to see in the image). They are very small, equal in size, and on the outside of every chamber. Is this normal? Will they get deeper? I have never noticed this on my Ruger Redhawk or S&W model 29 (but they both have longer barrels). Is this a result of the shorter barrel? Will this problem worsen or ultimately damage the weapon? FYI, I only used standard pressure factory ammo. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson. --> Last edited by mesinge2; 09-13-2010 at 07:40 PM..

09-13-2010, 07:31 PM	#2
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners i dont see an image of it. but pits in the chamber are not normal.

09-13-2010, 07:32 PM	#3
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners The image didn't make it. Pops

09-13-2010, 07:38 PM	#4
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners Now it shows. I can't really see them well enough to tell anything, Try it again, without flash. From the location you are indicating, on the outside of the cylinder, nothing there would be affected by long or short barrel. If you are indicating where you see pits inside the cylinder, that is another story. Pops

09-13-2010, 07:40 PM	#5
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners No they are on the outside of the cylinder. Prior to my cleaning half the cylinder was burned black. It took me an hour to remove the burns with Hoppe's - __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson. Last edited by mesinge2; 09-13-2010 at 08:08 PM..

09-13-2010, 07:43 PM	#6
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners from your description, i believe the pits are inside the chamber... but i could be wrong. there shouldnt be any pits though inside the chambers from firing. are you sure that it's pits, and not some type of build up?

09-13-2010, 07:47 PM	#7
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners Nope. Its like they are little holes (they look like tiny dents) on the outside of the chambers. It you move a finger nail on the outside of the cylinder it will stick in the "hole/pit/dent" thing. I will remark that they are very small, maybe 1mm at most. But they are symetrically placed in the front of every chamber. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson. Last edited by mesinge2; 09-13-2010 at 07:50 PM..

09-13-2010, 08:01 PM	#8
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners odd, i have never heard of that before. i will say they are not from firing, the cylinder will not touch the frame either top or bottom. i would guess that it is an err from manufacturing.

09-13-2010, 08:07 PM	#9
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners I could swear they weren't there before I fired, but I could be wrong. It is so weird I have been using revolvers in large bore calibers all my life and I have never seen this either. My only thought is a question: Could this be caused by the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone being too large? A kind of flame cutting from escaping gases enveloping the cylinder? __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson. Last edited by mesinge2; 09-13-2010 at 08:13 PM..

09-13-2010, 08:50 PM	#10
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners i dont think it could be flame cutting. it could be that you only now are noticing it but it's been there the whole time. i dont know though, i've never had a 44 magnum revolver.

09-13-2010, 09:49 PM	#11
old semperfi Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: i live in southern indiana,old country boy at heart Posts: 1,506	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners the small pits are probably from too much clearance between the cylinder and forcing cone.this will allow hot gasses to come back against the frt of the cylinder.i have seen them before and usually if you dont wait too long they are easily removed.i would suggest cleaning both the frount of the forcing cone and the frt of cylinders. using an automotive type feeler gauge mic the clearence between them.i try and keep mine between 2 1/2 tight to four thousands of an inch.i would suggest if it is way over to take it to a good gunsmith and see if it cant be shimmed. old semperfi

09-13-2010, 10:06 PM	#12
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners old semperfi, will firing it in this condition damage the weapon over time? __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson.

09-13-2010, 10:09 PM	#13
John'sWife Former Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 33	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners i've never heard of gas cutting on the side of the cylinder like that. what is the barrel cylinder gap? son of a buck.. this is the wifes profile,sorry this is johnlives4christ

09-13-2010, 10:22 PM	#15
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners a match book cover is just about .010. if a matchbook cover will fit, then the gap is too large

09-13-2010, 10:58 PM	#16
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners I tired a match book cover. It would not fit. So I tried a sheet of copy paper after I looked up online that copy paper is 0.004 of an inch. It fit one piece of paper. Then I tried two pieces at the same time and it was a no go. In my wierd experiment it must be between than 0.004 and 0.008 of an inch wide. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson.

09-14-2010, 06:26 PM	#17
old semperfi Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: i live in southern indiana,old country boy at heart Posts: 1,506	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners good idea,take it to a good gunsmith.i still think you may have a cylinder clearance problem,nothing else could do it,and yes,gases can cut into the cylinder.i have had two 686 smiths and i run 10,000 rounds thru them before i retime,clean,and sell them.i am now on my third.the normal shooter will probably not ever shoot that much thru a pistol to notice problems. old semperfi

09-14-2010, 08:08 PM	#18
mesinge2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 538	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners The gunsmith told me that I should contact Smith & Wesson and send it to them for a repair service. The problem is the front screw for the rear sight had a bur that was contacting the cylinder during rotation. The screw no longer has the bur. It must have been shaved off during firing. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise. I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." 1785, Thomas Jefferson.

09-14-2010, 09:01 PM	#19
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Technical Question for the S&W 44 owners i'd definitely contact smith and wesson and send it in. try to get them to pay shipping both ways. if you cannot get them to pay shipping both ways, i would suggest sending it ground ups or fedex. i cannot go through the post office unless you have an FFL. the law does not mandate that the goes next day air through ups/fedex, it is only their private policy so you can just send it ground, unless they xray it or open it then you'll be fine. if they do find the gun they will return the package to you. and do insure it.