SHTF-Survival rifles

[spacecoast]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

My pick would be the CZ Scout in .410 and 22 mag combo.
Problem is, they've not been made for many years, and anyone who owns one won't sell it. I kick myself for not getting one 15 years ago.

If anyone would resurect this rifle, they'd quickly become wealthy.

I have a Marlin Papoose. Reading all the horror stories of the Henry made my decision for me. The Henry's compact and it floats. Oh boy. The last thing I'm worried about in the water is trying to rescue my rifle.

I want a CZ!

I've got one sitting in my safe, with a scope on it. Like new (in fact it may be unfired - bought it years ago and don't recall ever shooting it).

[Old Grump]

In 1964 I paid $28 for a single shot bolt action rifle at Coast to Coast Hardware store. I have 10 other 22's in the house but that cheap bomb proof simple to operate, easy to maintain, accurate iron sighted rifle is still accurate, still the rifle I use to teach new shooters with.

It will shoot anything I can stick in it without having to worry about whether it will jam or not be powerful enough to work the action. It's light, easy to carry, any idiot can figure out how to use it and if I lose it I lose history but not any large investment. Best of all, the barrel is long enough that the report of the shot isn't an ear buster.

I couldn't think of a better reason or a better gun to carry in a survival situation. A box of 22 ammo weighs little, is cheap and doesn't take much room in my pocket.

[Kent Detective]

Us Brits have got to be very very careful when answering threads such as this one.

We can have our FAC's revoked if the authorities (police) have reason to think we will use our firearms for any purpose other than that recorded on our licence! I can only use my rimfire for pest control and zeroing. If I wanted to use it for target shooting (or any other purpose) I would have to apply for a variation to the conditions on my FAC.

I would merely say here that a .22 rimfire is probably not the best option for defence but is probably THE best option for killing small game for food in a survival situation. I'd have a .22LR rimfire and a 12 bore shotgun for this purpose

The best defence option by far is a shotgun for short-range work. More than that I'm not saying... lol I value my freedom to possess a firearm and would NEVER do anything to jepodise this.

Over here it's much harder to obtain a small rimfire .22LR firearm than a 12 gauge shotgun which to me seems utterly stupid. You can also possess as many shotguns as you wish once you obtain your shotgun certificate. With firearms each rifle must be licensed. Seems a bit silly really.

The only people with lots of dangerous unlicenced firearms are the CRIMINALS. The vast majority of law abiding citizens are subjected to the most ridiculous gun laws in the world. So much for freedom.... it stinks.

A motor car is just as dangerous as a firearm in the wrong hands yet after passing your car test you can drive any car anywhere. You can kill and injure more people with a car than a firearm in a very short period.

If anyone really wanted to harm someone else all they have to do is go to the kitchen drawer and take out a large carving knife. Puts the anti-gun lobby on the back foot immediately.... I don't know why this fact isn't used more often as it makes utter sense.

[johnlives4christ]

kent... you cant do like out ancestors did. come across the pond. you've got a friend in kentucky if you every come this way.

[wyoredot]

+1 in Montana too, a man after our own hearts is always welcome! Or woman, for the same reasons!

[Tom]

The Army has an interesting perspective on the issue of a survival gun: a scoped .22 target pistol.

http://www.sererescuesog.addr.com/USRSOG-Firearm.htm

[Big Shrek]

Kent, I feel for ya...if there ever is a Zombie Outbreak, Britain will fall rather quickly, unfortunately.

Guns are also good for other types of incursions, but if you are prepared for Zombies, you're prepped for everything

[Big Shrek]

Marlin 70-P "Papoose" with a Ramline folding stock is one of the easiest rifles to stow anywhere.

The only downside is the lack of hi-capacity mags...which I wish someone would rectify.
Soon.

[lead]

Don't forget Kel Tec's SU-22 rifle, and the pistol version of it. I think the pistol uses the same mags.
I think S&W came out with a pistol version of it's AR22 recently too.
Forget the zombie apocalypse stuff, this kind of survival thinking is more about putting food on the table when you don't have access to normal means, or the normal means are shut off to you. A .22 is easy to pack, you can carry lots of ammo without weighing you down, and it's not too big a caliber to destroy the meat on small game.
I've owned a Marlin Papoose gun, but mine was no where near as accurate as a std. model 60. I'd look for a Ruger 10/22 with an aftermarket folding stock.

[johnlives4christ]

knowing how to trap and which types of plants are edible is good knowledge for anyone to know. however, a firearm puts meat on the table a whole lot easier and quicker then traps or snares.

knowing how to acquire vittles without a gun is valuable, but a gun is a must. if i didnt have a gun, i would not spend my time trapping, i would spend my time trying to find a gun. even a flint lock rifle beats the heck out of trapping most of the time. fishing though is a common skill for a lot of people, and gear is plentiful and easily acquired.

one well placed shot would bring down a deer and feed you several people for a couple weeks if the meat could be kept without spoilage. then you have time to set traps or snares or take a nap or make other items you'll need.

[runswithscissors]

I have had a Savage M24 since 1978.. my 1st gun for my 12th b-day. Anyway, it is .22 lr top bbl and 20 ga bottom in 3" mag and will send slugs straight too, so this thing is very adaptable to many uses. I've plugged a badger and a coyote, oooolooodes of gophers and of course huns and pheasants which it was really gifted to me for. It breaks in half in 1 second, it is not light but it is compact and useful.
Best-Mike

[Laserlips]

FWIW:

I don't think most of us have the funds or interest to buy guns specifically designed as "SHTF" survival weapons.

What most of us do, I think, is buy weapons (for me 22cal rifles) we like that we can shoot and enjoy, but OFFER the potential for SHTF duty, should it ever come to that.

With a good 22cal rifle you have a pleasurable plinker.. A firearm capable of putting meat (tree rats, ect.) on the table if necessary, and a firearm that ammunition is cheap enough that the owner can actually shoot his/her gun choice enough to become proficient..

If that choice can "break down" for easy carry, or concealment, all the better.

Personally I have found, for ME, the Browning ATD (automatic/take down) SA22, and any of the Marlin 39's are excellent choices.

Both designs offer very good, to very good accuracy, are reliable, and break down very easily into two major parts.

Not saying there aren't better choices for some, but the best choices for me.

No offense to those who might disagree.

Jesse

[tyc]

Originally Posted by oscarmayer

i had an armalite ar-7 ..... junk, tried one when charter arms started making them , it wasn't much better . refused to be fooled a thrid time so i won't try the henry ar-7 but i know people who have and they swear by them. now a survival gun i love is the springfield m-6 scout. 410/22. they demand big bucks if you can find one but well worth it in my opinion

I still have one, bought it about thirty years ago, Took it to the local shooting range late last Fall and it still performs well; one fellow seeing it in it's case prior to my pulling it out of the stock and assembling it jokingly asked, "Did you bring all of it?"

Purchased it I guess when Armalite was making them. Used to tuck it behind my seat and took it with me everytime I flew upstate, over what's known as the "Finger Lakes" region, a rural, heavily forested area. Never had to use it but then it was nice to know it was there. You really never know when or if the engine would quit but if it did, it'd be a long trek back.

Most use I've had with it was at various target ranges over the years. Don't agree with you about them being "junk" but then, everyone to their own.

tyc

[DJnRF]

Originally Posted by Palmetto

The 22 still seems to be the best choice for survival rifles. The beauty of many of these is that they easily fit right in your backpack. The 22 rounds are extremely cheap and you can carry hundreds of rounds very easily.

Does any own one of these rifles? I a partial to the Browning Semi-auto Take Down. Unfortunately, this gun is a collectors item and prices are too steep for me to own one.

I am curious how accurate these guns are.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/survival_rifles.htm

http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/.../survival-guns

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

http://www.survival-gear-guide.com/Survival-Rifles.html

You are on the right track with the choice of the .22 for a survival
rifle. Many 'bulls' out there will always try to steer you toward some
heavy caliber, or even some type of combat style rifle. Their idea
of survival is more of a combat, or big game style rifle. These are
NOT survival rifles per-se.

Of the rifles you have listed here the best of the time now is made
by Henry Repeating Rifles. It is still in the basic design of the AR-7
designed and made for the Government many years ago. It was
one of the two weapons carried by U-2 pilots, and other pilots flying
for the CIA and the Air Force. The two survival weapons were the
AR-7, and the Ruger Mk II (bull brrl). Both were the .22 caliber.
Armalite designed the AR-7 for the Air Force. The next manufacturer
to continue it after Armalite shut down was Charter Arms. Now,
Henry has the rights, and it is still basically the same as the original.
The changes that have been made are all just good improvements
needed for the rifle. No other manufacturer does a better job for
a true 'survival rifle'.
(Also, always remember that the 'AR' designation actually stands
for Armalite ...... NOT 'automatic rifle', or 'assault rifle'. The current
misuse came about only because Gene Stoner went with Colt from
Armalite, and had Colt buy the rights to the AR-15. No other rifle
that uses the 'AR' in their name or model is proper other than the
ARmalite-15, and the original, and current manufacturer of Armalite
rifles. The AR-7 today is the 'Henry model ARmalite-7' as the rights
to it were also obtained to build.)

[nmckenzie]

Can't say it's a survival rifle in the true sense of the word since if SHTF we'll be staying put, but we do have a Charter AR-7. Over the years we've fired just about everything through it - standard and high velocity, solids and HPs, and it just keeps on ticking. Many, many years ago I'd tried an aftermarket 15 round magazine in an original Armalite AR-7, and that didn't work out too well. With the little Charter bathtub toy we've kept to the standard 7 round mags and no problems at all.

[308 at my gate]

Although I do like the .22 and can see many uses in a survival situation, I would like to have at least one other rifle with more power for a self defense situation in a SHTF senario.

[nmckenzie]

Have most of the bases covered from .22lr (Charter AR-7 & Ruger 10/22) up through .375 H&H and .416 Rigby. My carry pistol for nearly 40 years has been a 1911A1, while the lady of the house favors her .41 Mag single action. In the "reach out and touch" department (an unlikely scenario here) we have an M1A and HBAR. Also have the standard fare in shotguns; mine are an 870 Mag and Norinco clone of a Winchester '97 Trench Gun, her's a Mossberg 500 slug gun. As noted, I think we have most of the bases covered.

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by nmckenzie

Have most of the bases covered from .22lr (Charter AR-7 & Ruger 10/22) up through .375 H&H and .416 Rigby. My carry pistol for nearly 40 years has been a 1911A1, while the lady of the house favors her .41 Mag single action. In the "reach out and touch" department (an unlikely scenario here) we have an M1A and HBAR. Also have the standard fare in shotguns; mine are an 870 Mag and Norinco clone of a Winchester '97 Trench Gun, her's a Mossberg 500 slug gun. As noted, I think we have most of the bases covered.

I like it. I think you have it all covered.

I myself like you have quite a few firearms that will do all that I need.

[Albtraum]

Marlin Papoose 795PSS.

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by Albtraum

Marlin Papoose 795PSS.

Remington 308PSS.

[DJnRF]

Both of you are also like me. Of course, I never confuse a true survival
weapon with a big game, or combat type weapon. After spending so
many years in activities with firearms (military firearms expert, sniper,
pro-shooter, gunsmith, dealer, writer/ author on firearms, police officer)
I do have a number of different weapons. However, as a lecturer, writer,
and teacher of survival for the average person, I have learned to keep a
full pack ready 24/7, and other than when I go out for my 'practice of
what I teach' stuff, will change the pack out twice a year; Spring, and
Fall, but the things that never get changed are the 500 round box of
.22 ammo, the AR-7, and the Ruger Mk II. Each time I do go out and grab
my pack, I just have to also grab my .357. Then, most every time while
away I also think that maybe I should have also grabbed my Armalite .223.

The unfortunate thing is that it is a shame that I could never carry
enough ammo for either the .223, or the .357 for any type of survival
situation. Even if I used my .308, or 12ga riot gun I could never have
enough ammo for any extended situation. When speaking of a survival
situation the likelihood that it will be much more than just an overnight,
or weekend thing is very high. Now, if you do not have to 'bug out' as
so many think about (which should not be done if you do not need to)
then the issue of which firearm, and ammo to use is not material since
you will be right where you have everything you own.

Also, just consider the fact that maybe whatever you have will do you
no good anyway. When Gary Powers was shot down over the USSR,
what good was his Ruger pistol or the AR-7? The whole idea of a weapon
for survival is for food, and some protection. IF one is accurate enough
a shooter the .22 can be used against any problem people. It isn't a
big game, or full combat weapon, but does very well for survival. Read
my 'Siggie' on the bottom of my posts. That is a proper definition of
Survival. You must just figure out how you will "cope with and overcome"
with what you are able to carry for as long as you need. Since there
is absolutely no way to predict what you will need for every situation,
you must prepare only the minimum of what you might need in any type
situation that you can carry to the end of the earth, if necessary. You
can never imagine enough of what you might need, or what you will
encounter. The mindset is the most important, and then comes just
what you can carry to cope with whatever is real at the time, each time.

[Fatstrat]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned one of these.
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-deta...gory=3&toggle=

I've heard bad reviews on these. I got mine (Blued model) in a trade. And for a 2 gun combo that sells new in the $150. range, I left any expectations of high quality at the door. But I was pleasantly surprised that mine functions well and is very accurate.
Main drawback are that the .22 barrel sights are made of plastic and are fairly flimsy. I wouldn't expect them to stand up to rough use. And the ejectors get dirty and begin to stick fairly quickly. And need frequent cleaning.
On the plus side, it breaks down and fits into a very convenient nylon carry bag w/shoulder strap. I put a web .410 shell holder on the buttstock in which I keep 1/2 & 1/2 game loads and 000 Buck. And 100 rounds of .22 ammo fit easily in the bag as well.
If a SHTF situation hit while I was at home. This wouldn't be my 1st choice. But I keep it in my truck in case one hits while I'm away.

[carver]

When we talk survival, we need to understand what is intended in that particular discussion. If water is not a problem, and it usually is, then we are talking weeks with nothing to eat, and still surviving. A gun, of any caliber, won't do you much good if you don't have water for about three days! So, in any survival situation water is #1! What about shelter? If you intend to walk out in a few days, a gun is just dead weight to carry, and won't do you much good at all. Still if you are going to spend a few days hiking out, then the only things you will need is water, and shelter from bad, or cold weather. If this is to be an extended amount of time in the wilderness, then water, and shelter, are still #1, and #2. You can die from lack of water in just three days, and you can die from exposier in less than 1! With a small caliber rifle, like the .22, you are limited to small game only, and you have no protection from dangerous critters. On a protein rich diet, such as rabbits, and squirres, you will become sick within a week, and probably die with in two to three weeks. You can live that long with no food at all. It's called "Rabbit Starvation". For an extended survival situation man must be able to take game that has sufficent fat content to prevent protein poisoning. Thing like beaver, moose, fish. If a .22 is what you are considering for a week, or two in a survival situation for food, then I would like to suggest that you would be better off with fishing gear! What about dangerous critters, and I don't mean snakes. I'm talking about mountain lions, bear, gators, or any thing that can eat you, and the threat level changes depending on what continent you are on.

Then there is the situation where you are not just looking for survival from nature, but from man kind in general!

[Fatstrat]

I doubt most of us would last long in a true wilderness survival situation. I'm sure some here could, but not most. Therefore my idea of a survival weapon is something I can easily transport and keep handy. To "make do" with, mostly for self protection, until I can get something better.

[carver]

Originally Posted by Fatstrat

I doubt most of us would last long in a true wilderness survival situation. I'm sure some here could, but not most. Therefore my idea of a survival weapon is something I can easily transport and keep handy. To "make do" with, mostly for self protection, until I can get something better.

I agree. With a three window on food, some fishing gear, like line, hooks, sinkers, a good survival knife, and a gun with some serious knock down, and a way to treat water to make it safe. If I should catch fish, I can extend that three week window into many!