Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol

OneFatCat · 04-11-2011, 05:39 PM

Ok I sold the old musket I bought at auction and bought this R. Johnson Horse Pistol dated 1844 and it is a model 1836 I beleive ...tell me what you guy's think about the pistol in general, any history you might like to share and a value if you have any idea.. give me your best shot LOL.

OFC

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Gabob · 04-11-2011, 05:43 PM

Nice pistol. Looks like a flintlock converted to percussion. Have no idea about value but someone will be along who will know

hrf · 04-11-2011, 06:42 PM

Page 331, #6A-035 in current Flayderman's Guide, value range Good Condition $500 to Fine Condition $1000

Brisk44 · 04-11-2011, 06:44 PM

hope you didn't lose your butt on the musket.

OneFatCat · 04-11-2011, 06:59 PM

Thanks Brisk ..I broke about even on the musket ...as for this pistol I just thought it was neat and clean.. I would think the condition is better then "good" but Im not sure about "fine" ...I most likely gave to much for it to but I did not buy it to resale for a profit just to enjoy ....
OFC

Brisk44 · 04-11-2011, 07:17 PM

Glad to hear it all worked out.

OneFatCat · 04-11-2011, 07:36 PM

Well this has been a lesson learned...[Ill do better next time
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OFC

Jim K · 04-11-2011, 09:11 PM

Nice pistol. That was the last year of production for the Model 1836 as the Model 1842 had already been adopted. Not to rub it in, but that is an armory conversion, and you might compare it with what was supposed to be an "armory conversion" on the musket.

The "WAT" cartouche is for the well-known Capt. William Anderson Thornton, USA, who worked from c. 1840 to 1861, and approved Waters and Johnson pistols, Model 1840 muskets, Colt, Savage and Remington revolvers and a bunch of other stuff. The other cartouche is the inspection and approval stamp for the conversion, but I don't recognize the initials.

Jim

Hawg · 04-11-2011, 10:57 PM

Cool beans, thats a nice one.

OneFatCat · 04-12-2011, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

Nice pistol. That was the last year of production for the Model 1836 as the Model 1842 had already been adopted. Not to rub it in, but that is an armory conversion, and you might compare it with what was supposed to be an "armory conversion" on the musket.

The "WAT" cartouche is for the well-known Capt. William Anderson Thornton, USA, who worked from c. 1840 to 1861, and approved Waters and Johnson pistols, Model 1840 muskets, Colt, Savage and Remington revolvers and a bunch of other stuff. The other cartouche is the inspection and approval stamp for the conversion, but I don't recognize the initials.

Jim

Thanks Jim for the information ...the initials look to be W.A.J.

OFC

geds · 04-12-2011, 08:19 AM

I agree with Jim - that looks like a scripted "T" not a "J"

Hawg · 04-12-2011, 09:33 AM

yep, it's a T.

OneFatCat · 04-12-2011, 09:50 AM

Well Im sure you guys are right but here is a little better picture ..

OFC
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Jim K · 04-12-2011, 02:46 PM

Well, it is WAT; anyone who knows U.S. military arms of that era is quite familiar with that cartouche.

Jim

OneFatCat · 04-12-2011, 04:45 PM

Thanks Jim I appreciate the info ....so I wonder who the other person is?

OFC

Jim K · 04-12-2011, 09:08 PM

Now I have a good look at that second cartouche, I think it is "SH" which could be Samuel Hawkins, Springfield Armory Sub-inspector, who worked around 1860-1862. Is there a date on top of the tang? If so, it is the conversion date.

A lot of folks are more expert on that period than I, but I do have some old guns. The successor to the Model 1836 was the Model 1842, basically a made-as percussion version of the Model 1836, except with brass furniture instead of iron. Both were good, reliable guns, and the '42 was especially liked for its reliability and .54 caliber power even after revolvers came to be common. Many '36's, converted '36's and '42's were used in the Civil war, often being issued to militia units and support units so that the available revolvers could go to the front lines. One advantage they had over revolvers was that they used the standard musket cap.

Antique and single shot as they are, I have little doubt that looking into the barrels of a brace of Model 1842's would tend to have a daunting effect on someone with ill intent.

Jim

04-11-2011, 05:39 PM	#1
OneFatCat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Frederick Maryland Posts: 222	Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Ok I sold the old musket I bought at auction and bought this R. Johnson Horse Pistol dated 1844 and it is a model 1836 I beleive ...tell me what you guy's think about the pistol in general, any history you might like to share and a value if you have any idea.. give me your best shot LOL. OFC [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] __________________ *Why Johnny Ringo you look like somebody just walked over your grave* -->

04-11-2011, 05:43 PM	#2
Gabob Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW GA CSA Posts: 1,157	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Nice pistol. Looks like a flintlock converted to percussion. Have no idea about value but someone will be along who will know __________________ NRA Endowment Member Keep Your Powder Dry

04-11-2011, 06:42 PM	#3
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,276	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Page 331, #6A-035 in current Flayderman's Guide, value range Good Condition $500 to Fine Condition $1000

04-11-2011, 06:44 PM	#4
Brisk44 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,747	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol hope you didn't lose your butt on the musket.

04-11-2011, 06:59 PM	#5
OneFatCat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Frederick Maryland Posts: 222	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Thanks Brisk ..I broke about even on the musket ...as for this pistol I just thought it was neat and clean.. I would think the condition is better then "good" but Im not sure about "fine" ...I most likely gave to much for it to but I did not buy it to resale for a profit just to enjoy .... OFC __________________ *Why Johnny Ringo you look like somebody just walked over your grave* Last edited by OneFatCat; 04-11-2011 at 07:02 PM..

04-11-2011, 07:17 PM	#6
Brisk44 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,747	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Glad to hear it all worked out.

04-11-2011, 07:36 PM	#7
OneFatCat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Frederick Maryland Posts: 222	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Well this has been a lesson learned...[Ill do better next time [IMG][/IMG] OFC __________________ *Why Johnny Ringo you look like somebody just walked over your grave*

04-11-2011, 09:11 PM	#8
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Nice pistol. That was the last year of production for the Model 1836 as the Model 1842 had already been adopted. Not to rub it in, but that is an armory conversion, and you might compare it with what was supposed to be an "armory conversion" on the musket. The "WAT" cartouche is for the well-known Capt. William Anderson Thornton, USA, who worked from c. 1840 to 1861, and approved Waters and Johnson pistols, Model 1840 muskets, Colt, Savage and Remington revolvers and a bunch of other stuff. The other cartouche is the inspection and approval stamp for the conversion, but I don't recognize the initials. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 04-11-2011 at 09:21 PM..

04-11-2011, 10:57 PM	#9
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,554	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Cool beans, thats a nice one.

04-12-2011, 08:19 AM	#11
geds Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,706	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol I agree with Jim - that looks like a scripted "T" not a "J"

04-12-2011, 09:33 AM	#12
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,554	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol yep, it's a T.

04-12-2011, 09:50 AM	#13
OneFatCat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Frederick Maryland Posts: 222	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Well Im sure you guys are right but here is a little better picture .. OFC [IMG][/IMG] __________________ *Why Johnny Ringo you look like somebody just walked over your grave*

04-12-2011, 02:46 PM	#14
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Well, it is WAT; anyone who knows U.S. military arms of that era is quite familiar with that cartouche. Jim

04-12-2011, 04:45 PM	#15
OneFatCat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Frederick Maryland Posts: 222	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Thanks Jim I appreciate the info ....so I wonder who the other person is? OFC __________________ *Why Johnny Ringo you look like somebody just walked over your grave*

04-12-2011, 09:08 PM	#16
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Ok how about THIS one U.S. R. Johnson Horse Pistol Now I have a good look at that second cartouche, I think it is "SH" which could be Samuel Hawkins, Springfield Armory Sub-inspector, who worked around 1860-1862. Is there a date on top of the tang? If so, it is the conversion date. A lot of folks are more expert on that period than I, but I do have some old guns. The successor to the Model 1836 was the Model 1842, basically a made-as percussion version of the Model 1836, except with brass furniture instead of iron. Both were good, reliable guns, and the '42 was especially liked for its reliability and .54 caliber power even after revolvers came to be common. Many '36's, converted '36's and '42's were used in the Civil war, often being issued to militia units and support units so that the available revolvers could go to the front lines. One advantage they had over revolvers was that they used the standard musket cap. Antique and single shot as they are, I have little doubt that looking into the barrels of a brace of Model 1842's would tend to have a daunting effect on someone with ill intent. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 04-12-2011 at 09:13 PM..