Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol - The Firearms Forum

SchTchr · 12-13-2010, 04:42 PM

I was given a short barreled Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol. The Barrel is about 3 1/4 in. long, a 5 shot top open pistol. On the bottom of the grip is "Pat Jun 16 96 Aug 25 96 Pat's Pending". The Serial number is on the bottom of the trigger guard, there does not appear to be a letter in front of the number. I would like to know the ammo this would use. I would also like to know it's approximate age and value.

RJay · 12-13-2010, 05:54 PM

Pull the left grip and note the serial number there.

b.goforth · 12-14-2010, 12:49 PM

these two patent date alone were used between 1905 and 1906. this makes it a second model not suitable for modern ammo. like rjay suggest pull the grips and look for a letter code prefix to the serial number this will tell exactly what it is.
bill

SchTchr · 12-15-2010, 02:05 PM

I posted a question on this pistol on 12/13/10 but was unable to locate it today, to respond to the reply.

The question was about a Iver Johnson's top open 5 shot pistol. The barrel is about 31/4 inches. The serial number is Q82991, also on the right side, under grip, is the numeral 1.

I would like to know what Ammo it should use, and if it is safe to fire? When it might have been manufactured and the approximate value?

Thank you,in advance, for this information

b.goforth · 12-16-2010, 01:13 PM

second model made in 1906. do not use modern smokeless ammo in this revolver.

SECOND MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER
(Black Powder Cartridges)------------1896-1908
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch, nickel finish standard, blue optional, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top. Hammer the Hammer action, two frame sizes, and three calibers. Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ¼ inches; Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .38 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame with 3 inch barrel .22 rimfire 12 ounces, .32 centerfire 12 ¼ ounces, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 17¼ ounces; Frame height: small frame 3 ¼ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Only difference between the first and second model is the barrel latch. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Second Model features a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$275 60%=$135
For revolvers equipped with Bourne Knuckleduster add 100%

SchTchr · 12-16-2010, 02:38 PM

b.goforth and RJay

Thank you very much for the help and the information.

webdevguy · 05-21-2011, 01:11 PM

Hi,
Hoping you can assist. Inheriting an old Iver and Johnson 32(?) 5 shot top break. Owls face the grip, not the barrel. Hammerless.
3" barrel
Top barrel stamped with,
*IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS*
*FITCHBURG, MASS, USA*
Serial Number stamped on the trigger guard: 86284
Butt of the grip stamped with,
PAT. NOV.17,08
PAT'S PENDING

Can you tell me which model/variant this is and when it was manufactured?
I shot this once or twice as a kid with my dad 35+ years ago.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

fuzebox40 · 05-21-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdevguy

Can you tell me which model/variant this is and when it was manufactured?

Hello and welcome to TFF. It would appear that you have a Small Frame Safety Hammerless Automatic Revolver Third Model, Second variation. The serial no. 86284 was manufactured with a letter code prefix "B" in 1916. To verify this you need to remove the left side grip plate to reveille the serial number complete with letter code.
Designed for centerfire .32 S&W (short) smokeless powder cartridges.

hrf · 05-21-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdevguy

Hi,
Hoping you can assist. Inheriting an old Iver and Johnson 32(?) 5 shot top break. Owls face the grip, not the barrel. Hammerless.
3" barrel
Top barrel stamped with,
*IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS*
*FITCHBURG, MASS, USA*
Serial Number stamped on the trigger guard: 86284
Butt of the grip stamped with,
PAT. NOV.17,08
PAT'S PENDING

Can you tell me which model/variant this is and when it was manufactured?
I shot this once or twice as a kid with my dad 35+ years ago.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

With the 1908 patent date, it has to be a third model hammerless, but you must remove the grips to see the full serial number with letter prefix on left grip frame. And your question mark indicates you are uncertain of caliber so it may be either a Small Frame in .32 S&W caliber, or a Large Frame in .38 S&W caliber. If it's a .32, the serial number should have a B prefix, if .38 a D.

.32 sn B86284 was made 1916, .38 sn D86284 in 1922.

webdevguy · 05-23-2011, 10:06 AM

Thank you so much for helping me with this.
It brings back a little bit of the past.
I'll have a gunsmith check it out and see if it's suitable for firing.
If not - it still holds some treasured memories.

DylanTom · 01-12-2013, 08:28 AM

My Father gave me an old 38 (I believe) pistol they used on the farm. It's an Iver Johnson with a serial number T16972. five shot with hammer. If someone could help me with what type of rounds I would need to purchase that would be very much appreciated. My dad told me S&W 38.

If there is any other information (year, approx value,etc...) anyone could supply me that would be great too. The earlier post which indicated B prefix is a 32 and D is a 38 made me a bit nervous because mine is a T. Also, the smokeless and don't use modern rounds made me a bit nervous.

Thank you!!

hrf · 01-12-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DylanTom

My Father gave me an old 38 (I believe) pistol they used on the farm. It's an Iver Johnson with a serial number T16972. five shot with hammer. If someone could help me with what type of rounds I would need to purchase that would be very much appreciated. My dad told me S&W 38.

If there is any other information (year, approx value,etc...) anyone could supply me that would be great too. The earlier post which indicated B prefix is a 32 and D is a 38 made me a bit nervous because mine is a T. Also, the smokeless and don't use modern rounds made me a bit nervous.

Thank you!!

Welcome to TFF.

Unfortunately, .38 S&W caliber serial number T16972 is a black powder 2nd model made in 1907, over 100 years old.

Firing a few rounds of modern smokeless powder rounds will not likely destroy the gun, but will soon loosen its lockup and timing.

mstguide · 01-12-2013, 09:32 AM

I have an Iver J I would like to know the year for it. S# G47284 and Nov. 17th patent pending. the Owl are looking at me when I hold it. It is Nickel plated and to opening. It is a .32. I shot it once but I thinking of having a gun smith check it out before I fire it again. any help with the years and if it is supposed to use center fire bullets? Thanks in advance.

hrf · 01-12-2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstguide

I have an Iver J I would like to know the year for it. S# G47284 and Nov. 17th patent pending. the Owl are looking at me when I hold it. It is Nickel plated and to opening. It is a .32. I shot it once but I thinking of having a gun smith check it out before I fire it again. any help with the years and if it is supposed to use center fire bullets? Thanks in advance.

Welcome to TFF.

You have a 3rd model made in 1920, for smokeless powder .32 S&W centerfire ammo. (Do not fire .32 ACP/.32 Auto ammo, which will also fit)

DylanTom · 01-12-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

Welcome to TFF.

Unfortunately, .38 S&W caliber serial number T16972 is a black powder 2nd model made in 1907, over 100 years old.

Firing a few rounds of modern smokeless powder rounds will not likely destroy the gun, but will soon loosen its lockup and timing.

Thank you!! I appreciate the info. One last thing.

I'm guessing, I can not purchase the proper rounds (black powder?)

Thanks again.

hrf · 01-12-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DylanTom

Thank you!! I appreciate the info. One last thing.

I'm guessing, I can not purchase the proper rounds (black powder?)

Thanks again.

I don't know of any source for black powder .38 S&W ammo

mstguide · 01-12-2013, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

Welcome to TFF.

You have a 3rd model made in 1920, for smokeless powder .32 S&W centerfire ammo. (Do not fire .32 ACP/.32 Auto ammo, which will also fit)

thank you, I guess i will shoot it some, and keep it for collection.

.45guy1991 · 01-26-2013, 05:17 AM

Hello, I recently inherited an Iver Johnson 5 shot, top break revolver. Patent dates are June 16. 96 August 25. 96. Serial number under left side grip is R39677. Number 2 under right side grip. I believe it is .32 caliber. Trying to figure out when it was made and if its suitable for modern ammo. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

hrf · 01-26-2013, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .45guy1991

Hello, I recently inherited an Iver Johnson 5 shot, top break revolver. Patent dates are June 16. 96 August 25. 96. Serial number under left side grip is R39677. Number 2 under right side grip. I believe it is .32 caliber. Trying to figure out when it was made and if its suitable for modern ammo. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to TFF.

Serial number R39677 with those patent dates identifies a .38 S&W caliber large frame hammerless made in 1907 for black powder ammo. It should not be used with modern ammo.

.45guy1991 · 01-26-2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

Welcome to TFF.

Serial number R39677 with those patent dates identifies a .38 S&W caliber large frame hammerless made in 1907 for black powder ammo. It should not be used with modern ammo.

Thank you for the information. Its greatly appreciated.

12-13-2010, 04:42 PM	#1
SchTchr Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3	Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol I was given a short barreled Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol. The Barrel is about 3 1/4 in. long, a 5 shot top open pistol. On the bottom of the grip is "Pat Jun 16 96 Aug 25 96 Pat's Pending". The Serial number is on the bottom of the trigger guard, there does not appear to be a letter in front of the number. I would like to know the ammo this would use. I would also like to know it's approximate age and value. -->

12-13-2010, 05:54 PM	#2
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,504	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol Pull the left grip and note the serial number there. __________________ RonJames

12-14-2010, 12:49 PM	#3
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol these two patent date alone were used between 1905 and 1906. this makes it a second model not suitable for modern ammo. like rjay suggest pull the grips and look for a letter code prefix to the serial number this will tell exactly what it is. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

12-15-2010, 02:05 PM	#4
SchTchr Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3	Iver Johnson's Arms& Cycle Works Pistol I posted a question on this pistol on 12/13/10 but was unable to locate it today, to respond to the reply. The question was about a Iver Johnson's top open 5 shot pistol. The barrel is about 31/4 inches. The serial number is Q82991, also on the right side, under grip, is the numeral 1. I would like to know what Ammo it should use, and if it is safe to fire? When it might have been manufactured and the approximate value? Thank you,in advance, for this information

12-16-2010, 01:13 PM	#5
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol second model made in 1906. do not use modern smokeless ammo in this revolver. SECOND MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER (Black Powder Cartridges)------------1896-1908 LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch, nickel finish standard, blue optional, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top. Hammer the Hammer action, two frame sizes, and three calibers. Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ¼ inches; Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .38 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame with 3 inch barrel .22 rimfire 12 ounces, .32 centerfire 12 ¼ ounces, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 17¼ ounces; Frame height: small frame 3 ¼ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Only difference between the first and second model is the barrel latch. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Second Model features a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame. VALUE: 100%=$275 60%=$135 For revolvers equipped with Bourne Knuckleduster add 100% __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

12-16-2010, 02:38 PM	#6
SchTchr Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol b.goforth and RJay Thank you very much for the help and the information.

05-21-2011, 01:11 PM	#7
webdevguy Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol Hi, Hoping you can assist. Inheriting an old Iver and Johnson 32(?) 5 shot top break. Owls face the grip, not the barrel. Hammerless. 3" barrel Top barrel stamped with, IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS FITCHBURG, MASS, USA Serial Number stamped on the trigger guard: 86284 Butt of the grip stamped with, PAT. NOV.17,08 PAT'S PENDING Can you tell me which model/variant this is and when it was manufactured? I shot this once or twice as a kid with my dad 35+ years ago. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

05-23-2011, 10:06 AM	#10
webdevguy Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol Thank you so much for helping me with this. It brings back a little bit of the past. I'll have a gunsmith check it out and see if it's suitable for firing. If not - it still holds some treasured memories.

01-12-2013, 08:28 AM	#11
DylanTom Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol My Father gave me an old 38 (I believe) pistol they used on the farm. It's an Iver Johnson with a serial number T16972. five shot with hammer. If someone could help me with what type of rounds I would need to purchase that would be very much appreciated. My dad told me S&W 38. If there is any other information (year, approx value,etc...) anyone could supply me that would be great too. The earlier post which indicated B prefix is a 32 and D is a 38 made me a bit nervous because mine is a T. Also, the smokeless and don't use modern rounds made me a bit nervous. Thank you!!

01-12-2013, 09:32 AM	#13
mstguide Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol I have an Iver J I would like to know the year for it. S# G47284 and Nov. 17th patent pending. the Owl are looking at me when I hold it. It is Nickel plated and to opening. It is a .32. I shot it once but I thinking of having a gun smith check it out before I fire it again. any help with the years and if it is supposed to use center fire bullets? Thanks in advance.

01-26-2013, 05:17 AM	#18
.45guy1991 Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Pistol Hello, I recently inherited an Iver Johnson 5 shot, top break revolver. Patent dates are June 16. 96 August 25. 96. Serial number under left side grip is R39677. Number 2 under right side grip. I believe it is .32 caliber. Trying to figure out when it was made and if its suitable for modern ammo. Any information would be greatly appreciated.