Did he just do that??

[Rneck]

sit back,watch, sell ammo to both sides.

[jbmid1]

Originally Posted by Python

The Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is also an accurate historical document concerning Israel. Israel is God's personal property. In God's Covenant with Abraham, God gave the deed of ownership to Abraham and all of Abraham's descendants. The land was, is, and always will be JUST theirs. God is not a covenant breaker, He holds His word above His name. Israel will never again be removed from "their" land, we have God's word on it. That is an absolute truth.

From Genesis ch 13:

14The LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him, "(S)Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, (T)northward and southward and eastward and westward;

15(U)for all the land which you see, (V)I will give it to you and to your descendants forever.
16"I will make your descendants (W)as the dust of the earth, so that if anyone can number the dust of the earth, then your descendants can also be numbered.

17"Arise, (X)walk about the land through its length and breadth; for (Y)I will give it to you."



Can I get an Amem?

[Python]

Originally Posted by jbmid1

From Genesis ch 13:

14The LORD said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him, "(S)Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, (T)northward and southward and eastward and westward;

15(U)for all the land which you see, (V)I will give it to you and to your descendants forever.
16"I will make your descendants (W)as the dust of the earth, so that if anyone can number the dust of the earth, then your descendants can also be numbered.

17"Arise, (X)walk about the land through its length and breadth; for (Y)I will give it to you."



Can I get an Amem?

AMEN.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by al45lc

Please reread the post and specify where I'm wrong. Your defending the Israelies as though they have always been there and that land was always JUST theirs, nothing could be further from the truth.

Ok, I'll be more clear. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a believer. God gave them that land - in fact - much more than they currently have. It's theirs and ONLY theirs.

This is not a political battle, it's a spiritual one based on good and evil. Are the jews all good? NO. But they're still God's people. We would be wise to take that into consideration. Bringing biblical and historical factors into the equation, the surrounding countries who HATE Israel are wrong. They will only accept a solution that obliterates the jews. That hatred goes back well before country borders.

If you don't believe that, then, we will never come to an acceptable understanding on the debate, because there is no common frame of reference.

The truth is, it IS their land. Period. Those that say it's not, will be on the losing side.

If you don't believe it's theirs because you disagree with the fact that God gave it to them, then, that's a big problem for you. If you don't believe in God, you've got bigger issues.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by al45lc

If any here honestly believe that Israel has never provoked attacks upon themselves they are seriously misinformed, The Israelies knew from the beginning they would need more territory and that they would have to fight for it. It's as much their land as any others who lay claim to it, and Nations as a whole are prone to fight for their survival when given no choice, as the Arabs have done with Israel. But the Israelies aren't angels, and they have done wrong to others, in what they term 'pre-emptive' strikes.
I call 'em as I see 'em.

So, by your thinking..... If I "pre-emptively" strike an armed assailant, whom I believe will do deadly harm to myself or loved ones, I am in the wrong. So, even though the law allows me to defend myself in that manner, I'm wrong.

Hmmm. Don't think so.

[al45lc]

I would point out to those quoting the Bible that your religion is not the only one in that land, and I could write anything I want making any claims I want, that doesn't make it right.
They ALL have a claim to that region, and since the Israelies haven't gotten a fair shake from the others, I support an Israelie state. The others, laughingly called Palestinians (a made up word) could easily live in any of the surrounding countries run by Muslims. But since the Muslims don't want an Israelie state, they won't take the Palestinians, and make claims of displacement.
None of this is relative to the fact the the Israelies are no angels, and knew from the beginning that thay would have to take more land than originally alloted them. This is a clear cut case of might making right.
If we told the Israelies that they would have to leave, they would turn on us in a heartbeat. That's all I'm saying.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by al45lc

I would point out to those quoting the Bible that your religion is not the only one in that land, and I could write anything I want making any claims I want, that doesn't make it right.

My belief is in what Christ said. Jesus said that he was the ONLY way, I didn't. But I believe Him. Eventually, the Jews will turn to their messiah finally too, but the church will be gone at that point.

Originally Posted by al45lc

None of this is relative to the fact the the Israelies are no angels, and knew from the beginning that thay would have to take more land than originally alloted them. This is a clear cut case of might making right.
If we told the Israelies that they would have to leave, they would turn on us in a heartbeat. That's all I'm saying.

The Israelis have LESS land than "allotted" to them originally, by God. It's a clear case of RIGHT making MIGHT, which is why they haven't been beaten, nor will they be, whether we stand with them or not. God help us when we decide to turn our backs on them.

[ozo]

He definitely has body language....

[Double D]

The doubters will see that god will not allow ANYONE to take the land. Bozo doesnt have a clue what he is talking about. If he were a christian he would know that. I am thrilled he has said what he said. And as far as other religions go, well, their god is dead. Ours is alive and well.

[Python]

Originally Posted by Double D

The doubters will see that god will not allow ANYONE to take the land. Bozo doesnt have a clue what he is talking about. If he were a christian he would know that. I am thrilled he has said what he said. And as far as other religions go, well, their god is dead. Ours is alive and well.

+1 Well said.

[jim brady]

I'd like to toss in a whole bunch of "Amens" here. I was glad to see the Isreali President basically tell Obama to 'stuff-it' when Obama suggested that Isreal return to the pre-1967 borders.

Of course Obama didn't like that. His ego tells him that he is always right and the rest of us are morons.

I may not be as church-going as most, but when we turn our backs on Isreal, we are toast. They are God's people. If we stand with them, we are also God's people. If we stand with the enemies of Isreal.... well, I think that's the point I wanted to make.

[Python]

The Palestinians (so called) have no "Right Of Return". Concerning Israel, the Palestinians have no rights at all, period. One third of the Bible is prophecy. Fulfilled prophecy indisputably proves the truth of God's word. The existence of the nation of Israel today is prophecy fulfilled. What's happening today in reference to Israel is Bible prophecy being fulfilled, before our very eyes. Israel is God's time clock concerning the End Times. Knowing that God has said that when Israel becomes a nation again (1948) in the End Times, that this will begin the Last Generation, our main concern today should be to get our spiritual house in order. It's later than we think.

[jbmid1]

Originally Posted by al45lc

I would point out to those quoting the Bible that your religion is not the only one in that land, and I could write anything I want making any claims I want, that doesn't make it right.
They ALL have a claim to that region, and since the Israelies haven't gotten a fair shake from the others, I support an Israelie state. The others, laughingly called Palestinians (a made up word) could easily live in any of the surrounding countries run by Muslims. But since the Muslims don't want an Israelie state, they won't take the Palestinians, and make claims of displacement.
None of this is relative to the fact the the Israelies are no angels, and knew from the beginning that thay would have to take more land than originally alloted them. This is a clear cut case of might making right.
If we told the Israelies that they would have to leave, they would turn on us in a heartbeat. That's all I'm saying.

Yes there are several religions in the area, But the reason I qouted the Genisis passage is that it is the oldest written record of a claim to the region by any people group still in existance. I might remind you that Islam is a relative newcomer. It was founded in the 7th century and became a player in the land of Israel in the 8 th century. That's a mere 2000 yrs after God made his promise to Abraham.

Most of us 'bible quoters" are also aware that the Israelis are not necessarily now angels, nor have they ever been. That is also part of God's design. To show that his plans will still be accomplished even when dealing with a group of people that are not always the most responsive. As it has been said about the Jews, "they are alot like the rest of us, only more so."

As a minor point of historical trivia, I am at this time, living and working at a base in Iraq that contains an archeoligical relic known os the Ziggurat of Ur.
This is widely accepted as the birthplace of Abraham. I haven't taken the tour yet, but I'm sure they can verify the dates when this thing was constructed and thrived as an ancient civilization.
Hope to have some pictures to follow soon.

In my interactions with many people from this part of the world(interpreters mostly), I'm learning, or being reminded that they still have archeological links to alot of the biblical record. They can show you the remains or the lion's den Daniel was thrown into. The only question they have about Jonah is exactly where the big fish spewed him out on the riverbank(Niinevah is a province in Iraq)btw.

[Python]

Originally Posted by jbmid1

Most of us 'bible quoters" are also aware that the Israelis are not necessarily now angels, nor have they ever been. That is also part of God's design. To show that his plans will still be accomplished even when dealing with a group of people that are not always the most responsive.

Exodus 32:9...Speaking of the Jews, God states... "I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiff-necked people".

[Juker]

I had to bump this thread for the simple pleasure of posting this pic.

Netanyahu and Soetoro, the early years. Who do you think has a better understanding of Israel's situation?

[graehaven]

Those pictures speak volumes on the subject, Juker. Thanks.

I got crickets on my last two points. Hmmmmmm......

[Gun Geezer]

Originally Posted by jim brady

I'd like to toss in a whole bunch of "Amens" here. I was glad to see the Isreali President basically tell Obama to 'stuff-it' when Obama suggested that Isreal return to the pre-1967 borders.

Of course Obama didn't like that. His ego tells him that he is always right and the rest of us are morons.

I may not be as church-going as most, but when we turn our backs on Isreal, we are toast. They are God's people. If we stand with them, we are also God's people. If we stand with the enemies of Isreal.... well, I think that's the point I wanted to make.

Boy, you've got big "O" pegged right!