1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver - The Firearms Forum

confederatemule · 05-22-2011, 02:08 PM

I bought more junk.

I'd sorta like to know who made it, and when it was made? Also, I can't find any info on one with a 4.898" or 4 7/8" round barrel.

I would like to find parts, new or used, to put in back into firing condition.
But, apparently, the barrel length is going to make things difficult.

I think the pictures pretty well tell the story. Except, maybe, it has a very light trigger. Dangerously light. I'll have to change that.
But, just in case...
Top of Barrel: NAVY ARMS CO. RIDGEFIELD N.J.
Left Side of Barrel: CALIBRE .44 [that is how it is spelled on the barrel]
Bottom of Barrel: BLACK POWDER ONLY
Right Side of Barrel: MADE IN ITALY
The cylinder has 764 stamped on it.
I did the best I could, in the pictures, with the proof marks.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220003.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220004.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220006.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220011.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220014.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220015.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220016.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220017.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220018.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220019.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220020.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220021.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220045.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220001.jpg

Sure could use some help with locating parts.

Thanks for any help.

Mule

jjmitchell60 · 05-22-2011, 04:20 PM

Try:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com
They should have all you need. Probably have to give them a call.

Little Rooster · 06-11-2011, 07:40 AM

also try VTI

Hawg · 06-11-2011, 10:45 AM

It was made in 76. It's most likely an Armi san Marco. It's actually not a 51 Navy. It's a Griswold & Gunnison in the wrong caliber and barrel length, even tho it may have been sold as a 51. As far as I know ASM and Pietta are the only ones that made brass framed 44's and as far as I know Pietta never made a round barrel sheriffs model. ASM's quality was hit or miss and internal parts were generally pretty soft.

confederatemule · 06-12-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Rooster

also try VTI

Thanks for the link.
Judging from what I see, I think it will come in handy.

confederatemule · 06-12-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg

It was made in 76. It's most likely an Armi san Marco. It's actually not a 51 Navy. It's a Griswold & Gunnison in the wrong caliber and barrel length, even tho it may have been sold as a 51. As far as I know ASM and Pietta are the only ones that made brass framed 44's and as far as I know Pietta never made a round barrel sheriffs model. ASM's quality was hit or miss and internal parts were generally pretty soft.

Thanks for the information. It is nice to know what it is a reproduction of, even though it is not even close to being accurate.

I think I am, eventually, going to try my best to make it work. It looks like VTI can supply the parts to get her going.

bprevolver · 10-16-2011, 12:31 PM

This is actually a .44cal. Griswold & Gunnison type revolver. The marking on the left side of the frame is the Replica Arms logo used during the transition from Replica Arms to Navy Arms when Navy Arms purchased Replica Arms. Check for any other logo that may have an "F" in a triangle. More than likely this revolvers was made by Pietta. Dixie Gun Works and VTI are sources for parts.

dustydog · 10-16-2011, 03:23 PM

By the way,it's not "junk".Sam Fadala thought right highly of the .44 "Sheriff" model on the brass frame.When properly tuned up,and loaded with a 22 grain charge with a .454 ball,it'll bark about 600 fps,which is not to be sneezed at!

confederatemule · 10-16-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bprevolver

This is actually a .44cal. Griswold & Gunnison type revolver. The marking on the left side of the frame is the Replica Arms logo used during the transition from Replica Arms to Navy Arms when Navy Arms purchased Replica Arms. Check for any other logo that may have an "F" in a triangle. More than likely this revolvers was made by Pietta. Dixie Gun Works and VTI are sources for parts.

To be complete the gun needs everything, except the lever latch, pertaining to the loading lever.
I called VTI and then sent them some pictures. They said that that they did not carry parts for the gun. It was obsolete.
I figure the exterior condition of the gun scared them away.
As you know I can buy a cylinder loading stand and load it, or load it without a stand, but I would like for the gun to be complete. The gun is in time and works smoothly.

Mule

confederatemule · 10-16-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustydog

By the way,it's not "junk".Sam Fadala thought right highly of the .44 "Sheriff" model on the brass frame.When properly tuned up,and loaded with a 22 grain charge with a .454 ball,it'll bark about 600 fps,which is not to be sneezed at!

I apologize for my poor choice of words. My intention was not to insinuate that all, nor any, of these guns were "junk". I was applying the "junk" label to this particular gun. Actually this gun is not junk. It is just not all there and looks like it has been beat on with a hammer.

Mule

dustydog · 10-17-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by confederatemule

I apologize for my poor choice of words. My intention was not to insinuate that all, nor any, of these guns were "junk". I was applying the "junk" label to this particular gun. Actually this gun is not junk. It is just not all there and looks like it has been beat on with a hammer.

Mule

No Problem!
Something to give a little thought to is getting a full length barrel rammer assembly and cutting it down.Made quite a few "Sheriff" revolvers back in the beginnings of CAS,and even made a Walker with a 2" barrel for one guy(cut off right in front of the lug).Just remember to drill the passage for the latch spring befor you cut the rammer down.All the tools you need are a vice,hacksaw,handdrill,and a couple of drill bits.Takes about an hour,and is even stronger than a full length rammer.

PS,take all the internals out of the frame,fill the barrel with waxy grease,and "tomato patch" the frame and barrel with a little muriatic acid.Do the same to the cylinder after taking out the nipples,and then rub the steel with a little 0000 steel wool soaked in oil.Suddenly,you then have a belly gun that shoots AND looks like it's "been there and done that".

confederatemule · 10-18-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustydog

No Problem!
Something to give a little thought to is getting a full length barrel rammer assembly and cutting it down.Made quite a few "Sheriff" revolvers back in the beginnings of CAS,and even made a Walker with a 2" barrel for one guy(cut off right in front of the lug).Just remember to drill the passage for the latch spring befor you cut the rammer down.All the tools you need are a vice,hacksaw,handdrill,and a couple of drill bits.Takes about an hour,and is even stronger than a full length rammer.

PS,take all the internals out of the frame,fill the barrel with waxy grease,and "tomato patch" the frame and barrel with a little muriatic acid.Do the same to the cylinder after taking out the nipples,and then rub the steel with a little 0000 steel wool soaked in oil.Suddenly,you then have a belly gun that shoots AND looks like it's "been there and done that".

I think I can buy one for a 5.5 barrel. If so, do I just shorten the latch end of the lever?
What do you mean by; ""tomato patch" the frame and barrel with a little muriatic acid."?

dustydog · 10-18-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by confederatemule

I think I can buy one for a 5.5 barrel. If so, do I just shorten the latch end of the lever?
What do you mean by; ""tomato patch" the frame and barrel with a little muriatic acid."?

Yep,that would work.Just make sure the catch under the barrel is firmly fixed so you can fit the lever and catch for the rammer.Tomato patching is a trick I learned from an old gunsmith up in New Hampshire.When you want to antique a part or a repair,you bury it out in the tomato patch for a couple of months.Gets a coating of light rust and a few surface pits that you can steel wool with oil,and then wax.The old guy could make a news Thompson barrel look like it came out of the Hawkin Brothers shop 150 years ago!

confederatemule · 10-18-2011, 09:27 PM

Thanks, dustydog

Hawg · 10-19-2011, 10:17 AM

You can spray it with a salt and vinegar mix for three days or so and it will look like this.

Then card it off with steel wool and it will look something like this.

dustydog · 10-19-2011, 03:15 PM

Great job,Hawg!Needs a few dings in the grip from using it to nail up a wanted poster,but that will happen with time!

Hawg · 10-19-2011, 03:40 PM

It's got a few small ones that don't show well in pics.

05-22-2011, 02:08 PM	#1
confederatemule V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, corner of Texas Contributor Posts: 112	1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver I bought more junk. I'd sorta like to know who made it, and when it was made? Also, I can't find any info on one with a 4.898" or 4 7/8" round barrel. I would like to find parts, new or used, to put in back into firing condition. But, apparently, the barrel length is going to make things difficult. I think the pictures pretty well tell the story. Except, maybe, it has a very light trigger. Dangerously light. I'll have to change that. But, just in case... Top of Barrel: NAVY ARMS CO. RIDGEFIELD N.J. Left Side of Barrel: CALIBRE .44 [that is how it is spelled on the barrel] Bottom of Barrel: BLACK POWDER ONLY Right Side of Barrel: MADE IN ITALY The cylinder has 764 stamped on it. I did the best I could, in the pictures, with the proof marks. http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220003.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220004.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220006.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220011.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220014.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220015.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220016.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220017.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220018.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220019.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220020.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220021.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220045.jpg http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...r/P5220001.jpg Sure could use some help with locating parts. Thanks for any help. Mule -->

05-22-2011, 04:20 PM	#2
jjmitchell60 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls of Kentucky Contributor Posts: 1,471	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver Try: http://www.dixiegunworks.com They should have all you need. Probably have to give them a call. __________________ Oath Keepers NOT ON OUR WATCH www.oathkeepers.org 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes Duty... Thomas Jefferson

06-11-2011, 07:40 AM	#3
Little Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 564	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver also try VTI __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know Victory Nor Defeat" Teddy Roosevelt

06-11-2011, 10:45 AM	#4
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,557	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver It was made in 76. It's most likely an Armi san Marco. It's actually not a 51 Navy. It's a Griswold & Gunnison in the wrong caliber and barrel length, even tho it may have been sold as a 51. As far as I know ASM and Pietta are the only ones that made brass framed 44's and as far as I know Pietta never made a round barrel sheriffs model. ASM's quality was hit or miss and internal parts were generally pretty soft.

10-16-2011, 12:31 PM	#7
bprevolver Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 21	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver This is actually a .44cal. Griswold & Gunnison type revolver. The marking on the left side of the frame is the Replica Arms logo used during the transition from Replica Arms to Navy Arms when Navy Arms purchased Replica Arms. Check for any other logo that may have an "F" in a triangle. More than likely this revolvers was made by Pietta. Dixie Gun Works and VTI are sources for parts.

10-16-2011, 03:23 PM	#8
dustydog V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 206	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver By the way,it's not "junk".Sam Fadala thought right highly of the .44 "Sheriff" model on the brass frame.When properly tuned up,and loaded with a 22 grain charge with a .454 ball,it'll bark about 600 fps,which is not to be sneezed at!

10-18-2011, 09:27 PM	#14
confederatemule V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, corner of Texas Contributor Posts: 112	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver Thanks, dustydog

10-19-2011, 10:17 AM	#15
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,557	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver You can spray it with a salt and vinegar mix for three days or so and it will look like this. Then card it off with steel wool and it will look something like this.

10-19-2011, 03:15 PM	#16
dustydog V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 206	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver Great job,Hawg!Needs a few dings in the grip from using it to nail up a wanted poster,but that will happen with time!

10-19-2011, 03:40 PM	#17
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,557	Re: 1851 Sherif's Model? BP Revolver It's got a few small ones that don't show well in pics.