Are silencers Legal?

[Alpo]

I’ll take a stab at it.

The powder is not “expanding and cooling” in its trip down the barrel. It is burning constantly, producing more gas, which means more pressure, which means faster bullet.

That’s why a bullet from a longer barrel is faster than one from a shorter barrel. Longer barrel time means more gas pressure.

The BANG at the end is the unburned powder all going off at once, when it hits the oxygen at the end of the barrel. While it is in the barrel it is burning at a specific speed. This speed depends on how the powder was made. You are aware, aren’t you, that powders have different burning rates?

The BANG from a 2” barrel is louder than one from a 6” barrel, because less powder was burned in the shorter tube, so more went off all at once.

If you take a silenced 22 automatic pistol, and shoot the entire magazine, it sounds like this: POP pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. The first round is louder than the others. That’s because the silencer is full of oxygen for the first shot. For the rest of the magazine the can is full of burned powder gases. But, after shooting that mag empty, if you stop and reload it, when you shoot again, it will sound like POP pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. That’s because during the time it took to reload the magazine, the burned gases were replaced with oxygen, again. If, however, you spray nitrogen down the barrel, before firing the first round, there is no “First Round Pop”. They all sound the same.

Now, for the second part of your statement.

Yes, if you attach a 2-litre bottle to the muzzle of your gun, and it is a low-powered gun, it will work for a few shots. The plastic bottle will act like the baffles in the can and collect the powder gases, and allow them to bleed off slowly and quietly. Until you have shot the bottom out of the bottle. Each shot will be progressively louder as a bigger hole appears allowing more oxygen into the bottle.

If, however, you attach your 2-liter bottle to a high-powered gun, like a 223, the first shot will blow the bottom of the bottle out, and you will have accomplished nothing.

Well, that’s not quite right. You will have accomplished one thing. You will have committed a major federal felony. As soon as you put that bottle on that barrel, you have made an unregistered silencer. Good for 10 years at Club Fed and a 250,000-dollar fine. It doesn’t even have to work. Stick a potato on the end of your gun and you have made an unregistered silencer. Attempting to muffle the noise of a firearm, even if you don’t succeed, is the same crime as making a good one.

If you want a quiet gun, you have two good choices. Get a long barrel and load specifically for it. 24” barrel with a light powder charge and you can get awful quiet, for shooting blue jays in the back yard. Or, buy a registered silencer. Jump through the government hoops and pay the big bucks. ‘Cause friends and neighbors, six hundred dollars for a licensed can beats the HELL out of a quarter million dollar fine.

[kingnothingugm]

Thanks Alpo...now I just have to find a friend and ask him where he got his info.

[GMFWoodchuck]

Why would you even want one? The report is part of the fun.

[Alpo]

So you can shoot rats in the barn without upsetting the cows.

[Danwin22]

I'm thinking more of target practice with a .22 in the back yard without neighbors calling the police on me and my "Assault Weapon" .22 pistol.

[Ranb]

Making them yourself is also a good option. While it takes a bit of experience on a lathe, it is not that hard. I learned how to use a lathe when making my first silencer for a 300 whisper AR-15. There is nothing like the feeling of doing it yourself. Sort of like the feeling you get when you re-barrel a rifle, but twice as nice.

But there is a down side and I am not talking about waiting for the ATF form 1 (application to make and register a firearm) to be approved or the $200 tax that has to be paid. Even though the maker/owner of a silencer registered on an ATF form made the parts themselves, they can not replace any parts that might become damaged or lost in the future. The only exception to this is wipes, the rubber disks that some silencers use. They need to be replaced very few mags to stay in good working order, so it seems like a real pain in the butt.

The only way to legally replace parts on a form 1 silencer is to pay another tax, or send it to a SOT class 2 manufacturer and hope they will work on it. If I were to pay another $200 tax, I would rather make a whole new silencer instead of just replacing parts. The law is not very clear on this except to say that silencer parts are themselves silencers. The ATF has interpreted this to mean another tax has to be paid to make even one replacement part. It is a real drag in part because it means experimenting with new designs can be a very expensive proposition for the form 1 builder.

I am sort of getting around paying the $200 tax myself by making a few silencers for others who present me with an approved ATF form 1 so I can help them make it on the lathe for them, using my latest design.

Ranb

[MartinL]

I use a trust to own my silencers for me. I went round and round for a while on how to do it and in the end bought Quicken software to make a trust. Despite some people warning me that the ATF could somehow decide that a trust made without a lawyer could be invalid someday, I went with it. It has not been an issue so far.

Just remember to make a copy of the form 1 before you send it in just in case you forget the serial number. I was on the phone asking for the status of the approval a few months ago and gave the ATF employee four numbers before guessing the right one.

ML

[bluesea112]

Originally Posted by GMFWoodchuck

Why would you even want one? The report is part of the fun.

I am 40 years old and suffer from a constant ringing in my ears and partial hearing loss due to the loud report from rifles and shotguns .

Supressors were included in the NFA because a few ignorant fools received their education from movies, instead of taking the time to learn the facts. Supressors do not "silence" any gun, and they are not tools used by criminals. Supressors simply reduce the sound a gun shot makes by anywhere from 20 decibels - 45 decibels.

If supressors were more readily available for purchase like they should be, I would not be living with hearing loss.

[farmallsh]

I would recommend a suppressor to any gun owner living in a free state.

Here's some pic's of me shooting some.

I wonder if this post will get deleted like my last one.....


My buddy to the left now owns one. I coulnt put up with his loud gun for 2 days!!

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by farmallsh

I wonder if this post will get deleted like my last one.....

Probably not since you didn't copy a 5 year old comment in your post where one of our Staff may have miss-spoke a bit.

Just FYI, you most likely got caught up posting along side a troll who would not drop that whole "Illegal silencer thing" after being warned several times he continued to bounce around within TFF spewing his garbage in several of our forums, so things got deleted and he was eventually banned (You're welcome).

Feel free to post the pics again, if you like.

Good looking equipment you got there.


Crpdeth

[bluesea112]

Those are some nice toys you have there.

All of a sudden I feel a bad case of the "I wants" coming on. I always know when I am coming down with the "I wants", because my butt starts to burn right under my wallet.

[WoofersInc]

Why would you even want one? The report is part of the fun.

Actually they are a very valuable tool for teaching new shooters. I have a couple of 22LR suppressors and several guns that they can be mounted on. Having somebody brand new to the sport, it allows you to teach them with basically no noise and no recoil. It also allows us not to have to wear hearing protection for the beginning training so everything can be heard from both our perspectives. Having someone start off without worrying about flinching is a much faster road to good shooting.

Then of course there is the fact that they are just plain fun.

[InfiniteArms]

Originally Posted by bluesea112

Supressors were included in the NFA because a few ignorant fools received their education from movies, instead of taking the time to learn the facts.

Actually they were included in the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 because the federal Fish and Wildlife department was worried about them making it easier to poach game during the great depression.

[blackcat_attilio]

Hi ya'll ! In Italy silencers are not legal.

[Larry Taylor]

YES! I OWN TWO, A 9MM AND A 22LR. YOU NEED TO PAY THE $200 TO THE ATF AND GET THEIR APPROVAL. THE PAPERWORK TAKES A WHILE BUT IS DOABLE.

[Agentwil]

Let me tell you how you actually get a suppressor since I’m going thru the process right now. First thing it’s a class 2 license not a class 3. You first have to find out if suppressors are legal in your state. Remember state and federal have different stance on this. If it is legal in your state you call up the ATF and request a class 2 packet with an 1140 form to be sent to you. I know you conspiracy nuts are freaking out right now but it really isn’t a big deal. Once you get your packet you fill it out, include a photo, and pay a onetime $200 tax fee. Now for the hard part, you have to go to your local Sheriff or Police Chief and explain to him that you will be constructing a suppressor or short barrel rifle (example; Glock with a stock). The local cops usually don’t understand federal law and may not understand what is going on but be professional and explain what you are doing and why. Usually the will sign the form. You send it all in and in about 4 to 6 weeks you have your tax stamp. If you contact a suppressor manufacture, many times they will guide you thru the process.

[Bobitis]

From all the reading I've done, they are legal to own in Washington State, provided you jump through all the hoops.

However, it's also my understanding that they're illegal to use.

[hogger129]

As far as I know, silencers are legal in states that do not still have Assault Weapons Ban laws. They can be owned if you pay the $200 tax to the ATF for each one you own or make. I am not sure, but I think they also need to be registered with the ATF.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by Agentwil

Let me tell you how you actually get a suppressor since I’m going thru the process right now. First thing it’s a class 2 license not a class 3. You first have to find out if suppressors are legal in your state. Remember state and federal have different stance on this. If it is legal in your state you call up the ATF and request a class 2 packet with an 1140 form to be sent to you. I know you conspiracy nuts are freaking out right now but it really isn’t a big deal. Once you get your packet you fill it out, include a photo, and pay a onetime $200 tax fee. Now for the hard part, you have to go to your local Sheriff or Police Chief and explain to him that you will be constructing a suppressor or short barrel rifle (example; Glock with a stock). The local cops usually don’t understand federal law and may not understand what is going on but be professional and explain what you are doing and why. Usually the will sign the form. You send it all in and in about 4 to 6 weeks you have your tax stamp. If you contact a suppressor manufacture, many times they will guide you thru the process.

It is not a license. Period. Not class 2, not class 3, not class 87. IT IS NOT A LICENSE, IT IS A TAX.

Dealers that have a license to sell NFA items have a Type 3 Special Occupation Tax Federal Firearms License. That's probably where "class 3" came from - from someone misunderstanding or misremembering "Type 3 SOT". But the guy that buys the machinegun, or the sawed off shotgun, or the silencer does not have a license. There is no license. It is a one-time tax.

If you are in the business of making silencers, you get a Type 2 SOT FFL. Type 3 is for selling. Type 2 is for making.

If you are making one silencer, for your own use, you fill out and send in an NFA Form 1. This is an application to make and register a firearm. You don't need a Type 2 SOT. You are not in the business of making silencers. You fill out and send in a Form 1. http://www.titleii.com/pdf/010205-Form1.pdf

If you are buying the silencer from someone else, you fill out and send in an NFA Form 4. This is an application to transfer a firearm. Again, you don't need a Type 2 SOT. You are not making them to sell. You are buying one from someone. All you need is to fill out a Form 4. http://www.atfmachinegun.com/form4.pdf

[Agentwil]

Originally Posted by Alpo

It is not a license. Period. Not class 2, not class 3, not class 87. IT IS NOT A LICENSE, IT IS A TAX.

Dealers that have a license to sell NFA items have a Type 3 Special Occupation Tax Federal Firearms License. That's probably where "class 3" came from - from someone misunderstanding or misremembering "Type 3 SOT". But the guy that buys the machinegun, or the sawed off shotgun, or the silencer does not have a license. There is no license. It is a one-time tax.

If you are in the business of making silencers, you get a Type 2 SOT FFL. Type 3 is for selling. Type 2 is for making.

If you are making one silencer, for your own use, you fill out and send in an NFA Form 1. This is an application to make and register a firearm. You don't need a Type 2 SOT. You are not in the business of making silencers. You fill out and send in a Form 1. http://www.titleii.com/pdf/010205-Form1.pdf

If you are buying the silencer from someone else, you fill out and send in an NFA Form 4. This is an application to transfer a firearm. Again, you don't need a Type 2 SOT. You are not making them to sell. You are buying one from someone. All you need is to fill out a Form 4. http://www.atfmachinegun.com/form4.pdf

My bad when I asked for the packet I said class 2 and wasn't corrected by the ATF. I think it is a term many use. I do understand it is a one time tax stamp and not a license that needs to be renewed. Sorry if I struck nerve.

[Suppressed]

Originally Posted by bluesea112

All of the legalities behind suppressors is nothing but drama driven by ignorance. It is a muffler. That's all it is, and that's all it ever will be.

This is absolutely true. The irony is that mufflers are (generally) required by law on cars and people tend to get angry if you drive around with open headers or a blown muffler. Yet, put one on a firearm and suddenly people think you're some kind of law-breaking extremist, CIA assassin, elite LEO / SF military, or a Hollywood Ninja. All of the legal complexities for suppressors fuel further drama, like this thread, where people claim that suppressors aren't for the general public or are only for 1 out of 10,000 people. The fact is, acquiring a suppressor takes nothing more than 3 to 6 months, a $200 tax stamp, and essentially, being able to own a firearm lawfully. (That's really the extent of the background check.) There's no reason that every law-abiding gun-owner couldn't own one. (provided it was in accordance with state laws)

They're easy to get, the process is just so rarely used that it's misunderstood and the rarity of the usage gets turned into statements based on assumption that they're somehow hard to get.

Originally Posted by Mr. Nameless

Personaly if there is a need for a silencer then you're to close.

The soldiers in the US Army (ASI B4) and the USMC (MOS 0317) would disagree with you. Suppressors hide the sound of the muzzle blast even on supersonic projectiles shot from great distances. Suppressors are incredibly valuable to the folks serving in these fields. Suppressors are valuable even at 600 to 1,200+ yards, given the right weapon system. This is all from a tactical standpoint of the enemy hearing your shots. Of course, every soldier who's had a mag-dump over his head in a HMMWV probably wishes the trigger-happy yahoo doing the mag-dump had a can on the end of his bang-stick.

Suppressors are of great value to anyone, anywhere for the purposes of reducing hearing damage. I'm actually rather surprised that we don't have the attitude of the Finns. In Finland it's considered bad etiquette to be at the range or hunting without a suppressor. Keeping your firearm from damaging the hearing of everyone around you has an inherent value. (This is something I'm shocked OSHA hasn't jumped on.)

Originally Posted by GMFWoodchuck

Why would you even want one? The report is part of the fun.

It's far more fun when your .45 ACP sounds like a paintball gun and your 7.62x51 sounds like a .22 LR. Plus, there's nothing more fun than a controlled burst from an MP-5 SD without hearing protection. (All you hear is loud spurts of air and the action cycling like mad. It's amazing, not quite Hollywood quiet, but still pretty darned cool.)

[CLAYBMG50]

ACTUALLY 37 STATES HAVE MADE SILENCERS LEGAL ACCORDING TO WWW.AACCANU.COM WITHOUT A CLASS III. BATF PAPERWORK IS REQUIRED BUT NOT THE FEW GRAND FOR CLASSIII LICENSE....CHECK IT OUT.THEY SEEM TO BE LEGAL IN N. C. SO I PLAN TO GET ONE FOR MY WALTHER P22.....

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by CLAYBMG50

ACTUALLY 37 STATES HAVE MADE SILENCERS LEGAL ACCORDING TO WWW.AACCANU.COM WITHOUT A CLASS III. BATF PAPERWORK IS REQUIRED BUT NOT THE FEW GRAND FOR CLASSIII LICENSE....CHECK IT OUT.THEY SEEM TO BE LEGAL IN N. C. SO I PLAN TO GET ONE FOR MY WALTHER P22.....

Yeah, they can be had by private individuals. It's not quite as easy as going to the store and buying milk, but it's not particularly difficult.

There is a pawn shop in the town where my parents live that is a manufacturer of silencers. They sell a package deal on them with the Walther P-22s, and they seem to move them at a pretty good clip.

[dammitman]

did you know that the BATF&E processed over 890,000 applications last year for suppressors, machine guns, FFL licences and such? thats just one years worth,,,,,,,

[piratesover40]

Originally Posted by Marlin

NO - - -

Silencers are illegal on any weapon regardless of calibre!!!!!!



The FEDERAL Law is clear on this point.

You're kidding right? Suppressors since there is no such thing as a silencer are legal in most states. Check to see if ours id one. NFA.com has suppressors along with Subguns.com. I have 3.