Latest on Fast & Furious from Phoenix - The Firearms Forum

jbmid1 · 07-09-2011, 03:25 AM

Guns are showing up back on the U.S. side of the border.

PHOENIX - The ABC15 Investigators have linked an additional 43 weapons recovered during a Phoenix traffic stop to the controversial Fast and Furious ATF case.

According to court paperwork, Phoenix Drug Enforcement Administration agents discovered the guns in mid-April. They pulled over a vehicle near 83rd Avenue and Interstate 10, near the Phoenix and Tolleson border.

Documents filed in federal court reveal five suspects named in the case are accused of conspiring to possess and distribute “500 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine…”

Four of the suspects are listed as undocumented immigrants. The fifth suspect had been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa, according to court documents.

THE WEAPONS RECOVERED

Agents recovered at least 59 weapons during the bust. The ABC15 Investigators found 43 are connected to the Fast and Furious case with certainty.

We reviewed official ATF Suspect Gun Summary documents – a sort of “watch list” for suspicious gun sales and gun buyers. We matched serial numbers within the ATF documents to gun serial numbers contained within the federal court documents.

Most of the recovered weapons connected to the Fast and Furious case included Romarm/Cugir GP-WASR 10/63 UF Rifles and Romarm Cugir Draco pistols. Agents also recovered at least one FN Herstal pistol.

We found evidence that multiple buyers purchased the weapons seized in the bust and some buyers purchased multiple weapons during one sale.

ACTING DIRECTOR TESTIFIES

According to representatives for the Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, ATF’s Acting Director, Kenneth Melson, testified about the Fast and Furious case in front of the House committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday July 4, 2011.

“Acting Director Melson’s cooperation was extremely helpful to our investigation,” Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and Rep. Darrell Issa, R- CA, wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder.

“He was candid in admitting mistakes that his agency made and described various ways he says that he tried to remedy the problems. According to Mr. Melson, it was not until after the public controversy that he personally reviewed hundreds of documents relating to the case, including wiretap applications and Reports of Investigation (ROIs),” they wrote.

The letter also suggests the DEA, FBI and other agents may also be implicated in the Fast and Furious case. “…We have very real indications from several sources that some of the gun trafficking ‘higher-ups’ that the ATF sought to identify were already known to other agencies and may even have been paid as informants,” the letter stated.

DOJ RESPONDS

Assistant Attorney General, Ronald Weich, responded to the letter by saying the Department of Justice is aware of the allegations and “discussions about whether and how to provide any such sensitive law enforcement information have been ongoing.”

Weich continued, “this is not a matter of the Department attempting to keep any such material from the Committee for an improper purpose but a question of whether such material appropriately should be provided and, if so, how to best protect ongoing investigations.”

T HE HISTORY

Phoenix ATF agents recently testified during a Congressional hearing that they knowingly allowed weapons to slip into the hands of straw buyers who would then distribute the weapons to known criminals.

The strategy was designed to lead ATF officials to key drug players in Mexico, but some agents admitted they never fully tracked the weapons after suspicious buyers purchased them.

“It made no sense to us either, it was just what we were ordered to do, and every time we questioned that order there was punitive action,” Phoenix Special Agent John Dodson testified.

According to the testimony of three Phoenix ATF agents, including Dodson, hundreds of weapons are now on the streets in the United States and Mexico, possibly in the hands of criminals.

Dodson estimated the number could be as many as 1,800 weapons.

“…Fast and Furious was one case from one group in one field division,” he testified. He estimated agents in the Phoenix field division “facilitated the sale of” approximately 2,500 weapons to straw purchasers. A few hundred have been recovered.

Copyright 2011 Scripps Media, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

permafrost · 07-09-2011, 07:01 AM

Was reading on another thread here, that $10 million of the Obama healthcare bill went straight to ATF for use in the "Gun Runner" operation.
It appears this thing stinks all the way to the top!

Hatch · 07-09-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by permafrost

Was reading on another thread here, that $10 million of the Obama healthcare bill went straight to ATF for use in the "Gun Runner" operation.
It appears this thing stinks all the way to the top!

Not the Obama-care bill, the Stimulus package I think. Both of which are beyond belief, neither of which should have ever seen the light of day. Thanks Nancy... how's that new office working out for you?

permafrost · 07-09-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatch

Not the Obama-care bill, the Stimulus package I think. Both of which are beyond belief, neither of which should have ever seen the light of day. Thanks Nancy... how's that new office working out for you?

Ok, my bad. Thanks

hogger129 · 07-09-2011, 09:46 PM

I'd not be surprised if CIA was in on this too. There's gotta be somebody on the inside who knows it was Obama and can prove it.

Marlin T · 07-09-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogger129

I'd not be surprised if CIA was in on this too. There's gotta be somebody on the inside who knows it was Obama and can prove it.

Lets hope so.

Hatch · 07-09-2011, 10:14 PM

Interesting point.

CIA is prohibited by charter from domestic operations, but this was ostensibly foreign and therefore part of their area of responsibility.

And Leon Panetta just got promoted from CIA to SecDef... which is interesting... because if you look at his resume, he's not one of them.

WTF?!.

hogger129 · 07-09-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatch

Interesting point.

CIA is prohibited by charter from domestic operations, but this was ostensibly foreign and therefore part of their area of responsibility.

And Leon Panetta just got promoted from CIA to SecDef... which is interesting... because if you look at his resume, he's not one of them.

WTF?!.

Well just wait and see. Someone will say too much to Congress, or someone will step on someone's toes and someone will talk.

jbmid1 · 07-10-2011, 03:44 AM

We need to blow up our congressmens' phones, faxes, e-mails over this.

07-09-2011, 03:25 AM	#1
jbmid1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,077	Latest on Fast & Furious from Phoenix Guns are showing up back on the U.S. side of the border. PHOENIX - The ABC15 Investigators have linked an additional 43 weapons recovered during a Phoenix traffic stop to the controversial Fast and Furious ATF case. According to court paperwork, Phoenix Drug Enforcement Administration agents discovered the guns in mid-April. They pulled over a vehicle near 83rd Avenue and Interstate 10, near the Phoenix and Tolleson border. Documents filed in federal court reveal five suspects named in the case are accused of conspiring to possess and distribute “500 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine…” Four of the suspects are listed as undocumented immigrants. The fifth suspect had been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa, according to court documents. THE WEAPONS RECOVERED Agents recovered at least 59 weapons during the bust. The ABC15 Investigators found 43 are connected to the Fast and Furious case with certainty. We reviewed official ATF Suspect Gun Summary documents – a sort of “watch list” for suspicious gun sales and gun buyers. We matched serial numbers within the ATF documents to gun serial numbers contained within the federal court documents. Most of the recovered weapons connected to the Fast and Furious case included Romarm/Cugir GP-WASR 10/63 UF Rifles and Romarm Cugir Draco pistols. Agents also recovered at least one FN Herstal pistol. We found evidence that multiple buyers purchased the weapons seized in the bust and some buyers purchased multiple weapons during one sale. ACTING DIRECTOR TESTIFIES According to representatives for the Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, ATF’s Acting Director, Kenneth Melson, testified about the Fast and Furious case in front of the House committee and the Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday July 4, 2011. “Acting Director Melson’s cooperation was extremely helpful to our investigation,” Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and Rep. Darrell Issa, R- CA, wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder. “He was candid in admitting mistakes that his agency made and described various ways he says that he tried to remedy the problems. According to Mr. Melson, it was not until after the public controversy that he personally reviewed hundreds of documents relating to the case, including wiretap applications and Reports of Investigation (ROIs),” they wrote. The letter also suggests the DEA, FBI and other agents may also be implicated in the Fast and Furious case. “…We have very real indications from several sources that some of the gun trafficking ‘higher-ups’ that the ATF sought to identify were already known to other agencies and may even have been paid as informants,” the letter stated. DOJ RESPONDS Assistant Attorney General, Ronald Weich, responded to the letter by saying the Department of Justice is aware of the allegations and “discussions about whether and how to provide any such sensitive law enforcement information have been ongoing.” Weich continued, “this is not a matter of the Department attempting to keep any such material from the Committee for an improper purpose but a question of whether such material appropriately should be provided and, if so, how to best protect ongoing investigations.” T HE HISTORY Phoenix ATF agents recently testified during a Congressional hearing that they knowingly allowed weapons to slip into the hands of straw buyers who would then distribute the weapons to known criminals. The strategy was designed to lead ATF officials to key drug players in Mexico, but some agents admitted they never fully tracked the weapons after suspicious buyers purchased them. “It made no sense to us either, it was just what we were ordered to do, and every time we questioned that order there was punitive action,” Phoenix Special Agent John Dodson testified. According to the testimony of three Phoenix ATF agents, including Dodson, hundreds of weapons are now on the streets in the United States and Mexico, possibly in the hands of criminals. Dodson estimated the number could be as many as 1,800 weapons. “…Fast and Furious was one case from one group in one field division,” he testified. He estimated agents in the Phoenix field division “facilitated the sale of” approximately 2,500 weapons to straw purchasers. A few hundred have been recovered. Copyright 2011 Scripps Media, Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. __________________ You can't be too rich, too thin, or have too much firepower. --> Last edited by jbmid1; 07-09-2011 at 03:36 AM..

07-09-2011, 07:01 AM	#2
permafrost Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oklahoma, USA Contributor Posts: 1,771	Re: Latest on Fast & Furious from Phoenix Was reading on another thread here, that $10 million of the Obama healthcare bill went straight to ATF for use in the "Gun Runner" operation. It appears this thing stinks all the way to the top! __________________ Stand and Fight

07-09-2011, 09:46 PM	#5
hogger129 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,064	Re: Latest on Fast & Furious from Phoenix I'd not be surprised if CIA was in on this too. There's gotta be somebody on the inside who knows it was Obama and can prove it. __________________ Samuel Adams once said, "among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."

07-09-2011, 10:14 PM	#7
Hatch Former Guest Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 287	Re: Latest on Fast & Furious from Phoenix Interesting point. CIA is prohibited by charter from domestic operations, but this was ostensibly foreign and therefore part of their area of responsibility. And Leon Panetta just got promoted from CIA to SecDef... which is interesting... because if you look at his resume, he's not one of them. WTF?!.

07-10-2011, 03:44 AM	#9
jbmid1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,077	Re: Latest on Fast & Furious from Phoenix We need to blow up our congressmens' phones, faxes, e-mails over this. __________________ You can't be too rich, too thin, or have too much firepower.