Gunrunner points higher than ATF Director

[Zhurh]

Gun confiscations would result in a civil war throughout America that would overwhelm law enforcement or the military if they could be counted upon to shoot their own; not in the cards. The people see the 2nd amendment as a sacrament not to be touched, bottom line.

Just stop and think what you have seen already throughout your life. Do you remember the 90's? Do you remember the race riots of the 60's? Do you remember the anti war problems towards end of Vietnam? It always settles back down and our country survives no matter how bad it looks. People prepare for the worst that never comes, how it should be too. Just don't go off the deep end, take a happy pill, live your life to the fullest, raise your kids, and realize our form of govt has been going through these changes throughout our entire history and we are still the best place to call home. Americans have been prepared to defend their constitutional form of govt for a long time but choose to work within the political system to make change; how it should be too.

[Teejay9]

Originally Posted by Zhurh

Gun confiscations would result in a civil war throughout America that would overwhelm law enforcement or the military if they could be counted upon to shoot their own; not in the cards. The people see the 2nd amendment as a sacrament not to be touched, bottom line.

Just stop and think what you have seen already throughout your life. Do you remember the 90's? Do you remember the race riots of the 60's? Do you remember the anti war problems towards end of Vietnam? It always settles back down and our country survives no matter how bad it looks. People prepare for the worst that never comes, how it should be too. Just don't go off the deep end, take a happy pill, live your life to the fullest, raise your kids, and realize our form of govt has been going through these changes throughout our entire history and we are still the best place to call home. Americans have been prepared to defend their constitutional form of govt for a long time but choose to work within the political system to make change; how it should be too.

Great post, and all true. Throughout my life time I can't count the number of times someone has said, "They're comin' for your guns." This is not going to happen. Not any more than, "They gonna billet troops in your house."
The lefties through this crap out all the time and they never have the votes for it. And, if they do, those who voted unwisely, have found themself ex-Congressmen. We mustn't take throw away threats to heart. We're talking Constitution, here, and many have pledged their alligiance and have given their lives for it. No slick Illinois wanna be is going to take it and throw it away. TJ

[ofitg]

In a March 2009 press briefing, Deputy Atty. Gen. David Ogden explains that ATF is "fortifying" Project Gunrunner as part of the Obama administration's comprehensive plan......

.... at the 16-minute mark in this 32-minute video -

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/MexicoBor&start=800

[jbmid1]

Originally Posted by Zhurh

Gun confiscations would result in a civil war throughout America that would overwhelm law enforcement or the military if they could be counted upon to shoot their own; not in the cards. The people see the 2nd amendment as a sacrament not to be touched, bottom line.

Just stop and think what you have seen already throughout your life. Do you remember the 90's? Do you remember the race riots of the 60's? Do you remember the anti war problems towards end of Vietnam? It always settles back down and our country survives no matter how bad it looks. People prepare for the worst that never comes, how it should be too. Just don't go off the deep end, take a happy pill, live your life to the fullest, raise your kids, and realize our form of govt has been going through these changes throughout our entire history and we are still the best place to call home. Americans have been prepared to defend their constitutional form of govt for a long time but choose to work within the political system to make change; how it should be too.

Maybe 49% of the people see the 2nd amendmet as a sacrament not to be touched. The rest can be bought off to turn us in. But, go ahead and take your happy pills and assume everything will work itself out if you want.

[Zhurh]

jbmid1, Don't need no happy pills, I'm just not some over board paranoid worrying about everything. I just have faith in the same system that has functioned quite well for a couple hundred years. I watched friends go off the deep end in early 90's. The sky didn't fall and my friends lives suffered emotionally, financially, and their families too from their off the wall perceptions of what was for sure coming down the road;;;; THEN NEVER DID.

Many Americans have been prepared for decades to protect their family & country & way of life. That doesn't mean going off the deep end and getting themselves locked up or committed or worse. It means being prepared and living your life to the fullest. Waiting around for Armageddon is nutty and quite foolish.

I've watched this game my entire life.

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by ofitg

In a March 2009 press briefing, Deputy Atty. Gen. David Ogden explains that ATF is "fortifying" Project Gunrunner as part of the Obama administration's comprehensive plan......

.... at the 16-minute mark in this 32-minute video -

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/MexicoBor&start=800

Great find ofitg, thanks for posting it here.

It's good to see Janet Reno had a direct hand in killing Agent Brian Terry and other Americans.

[ofitg]

Evidently Eric Holder discussed the same thing in April 2009, during a speech in Mexico -

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...onference.html

Gee, I thought he only heard about Project Gunrunner a few weeks ago....

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by Zhurh

Gun confiscations would result in a civil war throughout America that would overwhelm law enforcement or the military if they could be counted upon to shoot their own; not in the cards. The people see the 2nd amendment as a sacrament not to be touched, bottom line.

While that is true, just because it is true does not mean that the elite won't allow it to happen here. They will allow anything that ultimately gives them more power. Don't think for a minute that in a "civil war" situation that it would ONLY be patriots against the government. We are a fractured society, there would be mass death everywhere.

On the flip side of that, there is another country in this world that now owns substantial holdings in this country. They are interested, deeply interested, in protecting their investment. That country also has a formidable military, and a population that far exceeds are own - providing more able bodied conscripts than the number of citizens in our country. Do NOT think for one minute that our government along with theirs and the UN will not embark on an agreed upon journey/plan to hold the "USA" together by means of a martial law/police state. They could EASILY provide 250 million soldiers to keep the peace here, in a melt down situation, in the interest of "preserving our nation" with our government's blessing. That's 5 million per state, on average. While you're wrapping your head around that number - which is plausible - allow me to answer the subsequent question to that: NO, there is NO way independent patriots could HOPE to stand against that.

So, you have two possible scenarios.
1) We have a meltdown and implode within and fade away as most are killed or die off, or;
2) We have a meltdown and begin to implode, and troops are shipped in to quell the violence and possible uprising.

How's that for hope and change?

[Hatch]

Originally Posted by Zhurh

jbmid1, Don't need no happy pills, I'm just not some over board paranoid worrying about everything. I just have faith in the same system that has functioned quite well for a couple hundred years. I watched friends go off the deep end in early 90's. The sky didn't fall and my friends lives suffered emotionally, financially, and their families too from their off the wall perceptions of what was for sure coming down the road;;;; THEN NEVER DID.

Many Americans have been prepared for decades to protect their family & country & way of life. That doesn't mean going off the deep end and getting themselves locked up or committed or worse. It means being prepared and living your life to the fullest. Waiting around for Armageddon is nutty and quite foolish.

I've watched this game my entire life.

Yeah but Zhurh, you live in a place where losing = death. by far most people in this country are not in that kind of environment. We're not talking about being snake bit, or stung by a scorpion, or a venomous spider in some local, in your case we're talking about a horrific cold that pretty much separates the winners and losers the first time winter hits.

I hope people read this and try to apply it to their life. Whether they are in Georgia or Nebraska, or Brazil. It's really about making it work for yourself, and not relying on others.

dismissing people as nutty and foolish is a disservice. stop the name calling. stop the labeling.

How'd you like to be waking up one day realizing you cant help your family do anything if vital services are interrupted? What if that happens while you live in NYC, LA, Atlanta... ?

this isnt the first time I've said this.... you really need to think about how not everyone is in your position. Instead... calling them names? really?

[Zhurh]

Apologies if I offended, remember I'm in you alls camp; just don't actually believe the Chinese will invade to restore order, the end is coming for our constitution or form of govt, or that Obama will actually have the guts to even attempt to disarm America. The Chinese? You have to admit that does sound kooky. I told that to the wifey and she about fell outta the chair in laughter and she's light years more level headed than I'll ever be. The Chinese will have more than they can handle once their own people demand a more equitable standard of living. Like I said before, I had a bunch of friends in 90's who sound alot like all you guys do now. They all had problems in their marriages, jobs, community, ect over what I saw as their perception that it was going to be escape from everywhere and govt was going to implode with a dem nazi state replacing our system of 2 party govt. Come on folks, life will go on, taxes might go up some, but the repubs will be back in power sooner or later and probably reverse all of "Big O's" ex ords. I really believe it too. I also bought my first AR in the 80's. I'm more satisfied what a great hunting gun they are on snowmachine & atv than a military style weapon.

So no offense meant. Remember, I'm just as prepared to survive anything as you all too and also defend my country & constitution. Hey, I really like this firearmsforum site, good bunch of people. You all have a good night.

We moved here from back east NW Pa. I was really pretty self sufficient there, just taxed to death, the urban sprawl was getting to me, and it seemed like all my freedom was being taken away by local ordinances and regulations;;; so I moved. Haven't looked back either, but changing one's situation is their responsibility. So right now, I'm eating fresh wild king salmon everyday; straight out of the net and pretty satisfied with my world view of things and most importantly, my family.

[Double D]

Zhurh, I dont see much need for you to apologize for your way of life. You live a life that not everyone here understands. You have learned to be self sufficient and enjoy the simpler things in life. I believe we should all prepare for some hard road ahead and it wont matter who takes office, its still going to get rough. But, you can only do so much. Store up some food and supplies and make plans, but continue to live and have faith and trust. When and if you have to defend your family, your prepared to do all you can. But worrying will get you nowhere fast. Enjoy each day as it were your last. We are not promised tommorow. Today could be it. Life is fragile, it is but a vapor. Here today and gone tommorow.

[graehaven]

OMG, why is this so hard to pick up.

The republicans are taking us down the SAME road to serfdom, if only at a slightly slower pace!

They are selling us out TOO!

STOP defending them, it's lunacy. They are NOT your friend, they are NOT going to save this country, they HELPED get us into the mess we're in, and we're NOT GETTING OUT OF IT without serious consequences.

The 90s were NOTHING like now. Stop comparing NOW to anything. NO ONE and NO COUNTRY has EVER in history done to themselves what we're doing.

[carver]

I think the Chinese will be really bussy trying to find a way to feed all the hungry people in their country when the U.S. falls, because they will lose Trillions of dollars in sales to a country that has financiallysupported them for so many years.

[chubcobear]

Nice discussion gentlemen. Many good ideas. It seems "Fast and Furious" is not getting any news traction, except for Fox and other Murdock periodicals.
The "other" media sources don't want to touch it. Obama's administration does seem to be getting some special treatment on this one. Imagine if this had happened on George W. Bush's watch.

[Zhurh]

Graehaven, I know my Repubs are just as filthy as the Dems (I live in Alaska and watched Palin fight it out with our Repubs for years) but we have a two party system here; successful third partys are few and far between. I do believe the T party will change the Republican Party or become the Republican Party; and you can trust people like Palin & others to see it so. I have faith in our economic system more than anything and that's why all the foreigners are headed this way. We have always had economic downturns and collapse; but it always comes back with time. Reason is when the economy gets too bad, the crooks in power are tossed out and the new crooks have to make changes to get jobs, money, and wealth flowing again. Politicals are just leaches fighting to keep their gang in power. Bottom line, let food, fuel, basic necessities go through the roof and then no jobs;;; there will be changes. Hasn't it always been this way in America? So, I'm not even buying into the sky all over America is about to fall. Just remember ole Carter and how bad it was in late 70's, then Reagen's policy turned it all around. It may be worse now, I'm prepared for anything, but I honestly can't buy into America's complete collapse. So no offense, but did you ever think about what if your perception of future events may be wrong or at least to the degree you think? Just saying.

DD, Ya know the older I get, the less worked up I get about everything too, ha ha. Life is too good and too short to waste it upset about scenarios that more than likely will never occur. I stopped being scared of ghosts when I was a child. Heck, I never see ghosts, bigfoots, little green men, and lucky to see bear & moose.

Doesn't seem bizarre that Big "O" oks 3000 guns to Mexico and then limits sales to 2/day. He's running for cover now and it ain't over folks.

[graehaven]

Mexican lawmakers say they'll press for the extradition and prosecution in Mexico of American officials who authorized and ran "Operation Fast and Furious," a botched ATF investigation intended to track guns sold in the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.

"I obviously feel violated. I feel my country's sovereignty was violated," Mexico Sen. Rene Arce Islas told Fox News. "They should be tried in the United States, and the Mexican government should also demand that they also be tried in Mexico since the incidents took place here. There should be trials in both places." Arce is chairman of Mexico's Commission for National Security, a congressional panel similar to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee.

Another Mexican senator said the operation "brought very high risk to human lives." Sen. Santiago Creel, a former Interior Minister and a likely presidential nominee next year, said a resignation would not be a satisfactory end to the probe: What happens in Mexico, he said, "must be sanctioned by Mexican laws and under our sovereignty."
http://theinternationalforecaster.co...lining_Economy


Note: the rest of that article is a good read too.

[Hatch]

Originally Posted by Zhurh

We moved here from back east NW Pa. I was really pretty self sufficient there, just taxed to death, the urban sprawl was getting to me, and it seemed like all my freedom was being taken away by local ordinances and regulations;;; so I moved. Haven't looked back either, but changing one's situation is their responsibility. So right now, I'm eating fresh wild king salmon everyday; straight out of the net and pretty satisfied with my world view of things and most importantly, my family.

That's really all that matters and I think you made a great choice, I wish I was there too!