1911 Full length guide rod - The Firearms Forum

lonewolf204 · 07-16-2011, 06:15 PM

What are pros and the cons of a full length guide rod in a 1911?

Alpo · 07-16-2011, 06:46 PM

Con is it makes it a pain in the butt to field strip.

Pro is it looks tacti-cool.

They say the pro is it keeps your recoil spring from kinking, but you know, that gun design was in use for 50 years or more before those "full length rods" showed up. Like Jeff Cooper said, about something else, "It's an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem".

ka64 · 07-16-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Con is it makes it a pain in the butt to field strip.

Pro is it looks tacti-cool.

They say the pro is it keeps your recoil spring from kinking, but you know, that gun design was in use for 50 years or more before those "full length rods" showed up. Like Jeff Cooper said, about something else, "It's an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem".

YEPPER & Try it with a Collet .......

Hawg · 07-16-2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Con is it makes it a pain in the butt to field strip.

Not unless you want to take the slide assembly apart. Just pop out the slide lock and the whole top comes off in one assembly.

Alpo · 07-16-2011, 10:13 PM

That's how I do it. I can now easily clean the receiver. If, however, I wish to clean the barrel, I still have to fight the fershlugginer guide rod.

JLA · 07-16-2011, 10:28 PM

I like them. they add weight to the muzle which helps to reduce recoil a tad., plus like Alpo said, they are tactiCOOL. However, if I buy a 1911 with a GI stubby, I dont go outta my way to change it. They work fine . And the recoil spring doesnt have enough room to bind. WHen the weapon is completely assembled the recoil spring and guide are compressed together and surrounded by a cylinder of metal (the dust cover and bottom of the barrel. lus the spring plug and guide are only about 3/4 of and inch apart when in battery, once fired and compressed the two move together, recoil guide in the center, spring surrounding it and plug surrounding the spring until they are compressed down to about 2 inches in length.. No way to bind it, at all, period..

hogger129 · 07-17-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonewolf204

What are pros and the cons of a full length guide rod in a 1911?

Cons:
-Harder to disassemble

Pros:
-Keeps the recoil spring from binding

I really don't think it affects accuracy all that much to tell you the truth. I have a full-length, one piece Cylinder & Slide in my Springfield Loaded.

Bigbill · 07-17-2011, 12:33 PM

I have no problem with the 1911 with the orginal 16# recoil spring. Its when i changed the 16# recoil spring to the 18# recoil spring is when i heard the spring making noises as it was coiling up as i pulled back the slide by hand slowly. This noise tells me the heavier recoil spring is binding up and coiling/twisting as its being compressed. When i installed the two piece full length guide rod this spring noise is completely gone now. I also found out the gun has less recoil, less over travel, loads the next round much faster and smoother using the FLGR kit with the 18# recoil spring. It saved the wasted cycle timing by less over travel and loads the second round much faster. With the added weight up front there is less recoil with no side to side movement of twist the 1911 comes straight up about 1 1/2'' to 2'' if that in recoil. All my 1911's have the FLGR kit in them. There is no cons its all pro's.

Now one fact about the wear being more at the front frame rails over the rear frame rails. All the used 1911's i inspect have more wear at the front of the frame rails when the rear hardley has any noticable wear. I believe its from the recoil spring binding and coiling as its compressed and its putting a side to slide horizontal force on the front section of the frame rails causing them to wear more. This horizontal side force increases when we install the stronger recoil springs so it gets even worse when we don't install the full length guide rod with it. I prefer not seeing this extra force and wear not happening at all so i install a FLGR kit w/18# recoil spring in all my 1911's. This wear problem is there just check your well used 1911's and you can feel it. If i'm wrong then youi tell me where all the wear in the front frame rails is comming from, like what the cause is and how to stop it from happening.

I tested my new AO 1911 using the FLGR kit / 18# recoil spring for 500rds now and it still feels as tight as it was right out of the box new. I believe I solved the wear problem on the front frame rails. But i'm not happy yet with my results I have two mre brand new 1911's with the FLGR kit and the 18# recoil springs being tested right now. Again once i hit 500rds i'll do a close inspection on both of them and if they show no wear at all again then i beat this wear on the front frame rails that were seeing for sure. To me testing one gun isn't enough but its a start. There is a hortizontal side force going on at the front of the slide and frame rails thats induced by the recoil spring coiling, binding and bending and the full length guide rod just may solve it from it seeing and getting more wear than the rear of the frame rails.

Now don't get a full length guide rod or plan on having the frame rails repaired when they get too loose its up to you, allowing the wear to happen or preventing it, its up to you. I hve a problem seeing wear happening when it should be there in the first place. JB's design is a good design if we leave the 16# recoil spring in there but it must be wearing with the 16lb spring too only much slower because of the less pressure. The choice is up to you so its allowing the wear to happen or fix the problem?

I'm no guru but i'm a retired engineering lead tech and we did solve problems in the lab and in the field too besides new product development too. I see things from a different side of the fence. I'm also purchasing every 1911 tool and fixture so i can do all my own repairs, tweeking and tuning too. I feel if i'm going to run and hammer them i better know how to repair them and make them better too.

Using the 1911 with the FLGR kit and the 18# spring plus lubing it with moly she is on the lower side of a race 1911 in performance in how fast and smooth it cycles with less cycle timing. Its a very big improvement too. The accuracy gets even better when we add the national match barrel bushing and the disconnector ramp but thats another post/story. I do all my own work and i can see and fell the improvements one change at a time.

xring2245 · 08-02-2011, 05:52 PM

Con... cannot be used in the National Trophy Pistol Matches (CMP) if you're so inclined to do so.

James

PanhandlePop · 08-03-2011, 10:51 AM

I have guns with each. Frankly, I see them a 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. I hear of people changing out one for the other, but I wouldn't waste the money. In the end, it depends on your personal preference IMO.

07-16-2011, 06:15 PM	#1
lonewolf204 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Oklahoma Contributor Posts: 789	1911 Full length guide rod What are pros and the cons of a full length guide rod in a 1911? __________________ Fear is only a word in the mind of the weak! -->

07-16-2011, 06:46 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,652	Re: 1911 Full length guide rod Con is it makes it a pain in the butt to field strip. Pro is it looks tacti-cool. They say the pro is it keeps your recoil spring from kinking, but you know, that gun design was in use for 50 years or more before those "full length rods" showed up. Like Jeff Cooper said, about something else, "It's an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem". __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

07-16-2011, 10:13 PM	#5
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,652	Re: 1911 Full length guide rod That's how I do it. I can now easily clean the receiver. If, however, I wish to clean the barrel, I still have to fight the fershlugginer guide rod. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies. Last edited by Alpo; 07-16-2011 at 10:18 PM..

07-16-2011, 10:28 PM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 1911 Full length guide rod I like them. they add weight to the muzle which helps to reduce recoil a tad., plus like Alpo said, they are tactiCOOL. However, if I buy a 1911 with a GI stubby, I dont go outta my way to change it. They work fine . And the recoil spring doesnt have enough room to bind. WHen the weapon is completely assembled the recoil spring and guide are compressed together and surrounded by a cylinder of metal (the dust cover and bottom of the barrel. lus the spring plug and guide are only about 3/4 of and inch apart when in battery, once fired and compressed the two move together, recoil guide in the center, spring surrounding it and plug surrounding the spring until they are compressed down to about 2 inches in length.. No way to bind it, at all, period.. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

07-17-2011, 12:33 PM	#8
Bigbill V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Northeast(ct) Posts: 216	Re: 1911 Full length guide rod I have no problem with the 1911 with the orginal 16# recoil spring. Its when i changed the 16# recoil spring to the 18# recoil spring is when i heard the spring making noises as it was coiling up as i pulled back the slide by hand slowly. This noise tells me the heavier recoil spring is binding up and coiling/twisting as its being compressed. When i installed the two piece full length guide rod this spring noise is completely gone now. I also found out the gun has less recoil, less over travel, loads the next round much faster and smoother using the FLGR kit with the 18# recoil spring. It saved the wasted cycle timing by less over travel and loads the second round much faster. With the added weight up front there is less recoil with no side to side movement of twist the 1911 comes straight up about 1 1/2'' to 2'' if that in recoil. All my 1911's have the FLGR kit in them. There is no cons its all pro's. Now one fact about the wear being more at the front frame rails over the rear frame rails. All the used 1911's i inspect have more wear at the front of the frame rails when the rear hardley has any noticable wear. I believe its from the recoil spring binding and coiling as its compressed and its putting a side to slide horizontal force on the front section of the frame rails causing them to wear more. This horizontal side force increases when we install the stronger recoil springs so it gets even worse when we don't install the full length guide rod with it. I prefer not seeing this extra force and wear not happening at all so i install a FLGR kit w/18# recoil spring in all my 1911's. This wear problem is there just check your well used 1911's and you can feel it. If i'm wrong then youi tell me where all the wear in the front frame rails is comming from, like what the cause is and how to stop it from happening. I tested my new AO 1911 using the FLGR kit / 18# recoil spring for 500rds now and it still feels as tight as it was right out of the box new. I believe I solved the wear problem on the front frame rails. But i'm not happy yet with my results I have two mre brand new 1911's with the FLGR kit and the 18# recoil springs being tested right now. Again once i hit 500rds i'll do a close inspection on both of them and if they show no wear at all again then i beat this wear on the front frame rails that were seeing for sure. To me testing one gun isn't enough but its a start. There is a hortizontal side force going on at the front of the slide and frame rails thats induced by the recoil spring coiling, binding and bending and the full length guide rod just may solve it from it seeing and getting more wear than the rear of the frame rails. Now don't get a full length guide rod or plan on having the frame rails repaired when they get too loose its up to you, allowing the wear to happen or preventing it, its up to you. I hve a problem seeing wear happening when it should be there in the first place. JB's design is a good design if we leave the 16# recoil spring in there but it must be wearing with the 16lb spring too only much slower because of the less pressure. The choice is up to you so its allowing the wear to happen or fix the problem? I'm no guru but i'm a retired engineering lead tech and we did solve problems in the lab and in the field too besides new product development too. I see things from a different side of the fence. I'm also purchasing every 1911 tool and fixture so i can do all my own repairs, tweeking and tuning too. I feel if i'm going to run and hammer them i better know how to repair them and make them better too. Using the 1911 with the FLGR kit and the 18# spring plus lubing it with moly she is on the lower side of a race 1911 in performance in how fast and smooth it cycles with less cycle timing. Its a very big improvement too. The accuracy gets even better when we add the national match barrel bushing and the disconnector ramp but thats another post/story. I do all my own work and i can see and fell the improvements one change at a time. Last edited by Bigbill; 07-17-2011 at 12:41 PM..

08-02-2011, 05:52 PM	#9
xring2245 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Hunterdon County, NJ Posts: 2	Re: 1911 Full length guide rod Con... cannot be used in the National Trophy Pistol Matches (CMP) if you're so inclined to do so. James __________________ Endowment Member of the NRA and Member of the NMLRA

08-03-2011, 10:51 AM	#10
PanhandlePop V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 252	Re: 1911 Full length guide rod I have guns with each. Frankly, I see them a 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. I hear of people changing out one for the other, but I wouldn't waste the money. In the end, it depends on your personal preference IMO.