M1 carbine for Garand match

warriflefan · 09-11-2011, 11:28 AM

I am going to try and compete this next summer in the M1 Garand matches in my area with an M1 Carbine. My NPM M1 Carbine can put about 90% in the 10 ring when shot from sandbags.
Is it usual to use a sling for shooting these since the recoil is so light? My Carbine Sling isn't long enough to use like the Garand sling I put on my Enfield to compete. Would one of the woven Garand slings be best to compete with?

deadin · 09-11-2011, 01:38 PM

Will they allow a carbine? It's a "Garand" Match, not a "M1" Match.

Old Grump · 09-11-2011, 03:40 PM

Even if they allowed it you won't be shooting off sandbags and you will be shooting at 200, 300 and 600 yards. There is a reason it is a big bore match. Me thinking if you want to shoot that match you need to start saving your loose change and get yourself a Garand.

whirley · 09-12-2011, 04:28 PM

The carbine cartridge is only a souped up pistol cartridge with a muzzle velocity of about 2000 FPs and you will be handicapping yourself. The M1 garand uses a cartridge with a velocity of about 2700 and a heavier bullet. No competition at all.

JLA · 09-14-2011, 10:29 AM

200 yds is about the maximum range youd be able to hit the target with an M1 carbine. The round is just too weak and ballistically inferior for shooting beyond 200. Yeah the bullets will go that far but not with any kind of accuracy and repeatability.

Id save up and get a garand. It aint gotta be a NM garand, but you need the ballistics of the .30-06 to consistently hit the 400 and 600 yd target with any kind of competitive consistency.

DennymacFF · 09-18-2011, 05:55 PM

Are the Garand matches that you are planning to shoot going to be fired at 100 or 200 yards? The Carbine is marginally decent at 100 yards and marginally inaccurate at 200 yards. You can shoot it if you want to, if they will allow it. The rules call for any Garand, Springfield, or Vintage Military rifle. The Carbine is not specifically mentioned. If they will allow you to fire the Carbine, take it and have a great time. But, you need a Garand to be competitive. Have a great day. DennyMac

warriflefan · 09-24-2011, 11:31 AM

The matches in my area are 100 and 200 yard. They are the CMP M1 garand matches, so they allow any military rifle made prior to 1956 if it is in it's original configuration. I shoot hornandy 100 grain semi jacketed spire point over 15 grains of w296 and it is great for accuracy at 100 yards, especially for the standing slow fire stage. The last match had everything from a 1911 schmidt rubin to and m14, so I'm sure a carbine would be eligible to shoot.

Does anyone know how to adjust the sling for an M1 carbine for the prone fire stages?

warriflefan · 09-24-2011, 11:39 AM

The first match I competed in was won by a guy shooting a 30-40 krag.

Old Grump · 09-24-2011, 02:29 PM

Google is your friend, try using it.

http://ltdura.ho8.com/5.%20Prone.pdf

warriflefan · 09-24-2011, 04:33 PM

That link doesn't show how to set up an M1 carbine sling though.
It is shorter than a standard sling, and it doesn't have the same sort of set up on the rear of the sling as a standard garand sling.

warhorse1 · 09-29-2011, 09:26 PM

The carbine sling can be used as a "Hasty Sling". As you noted, it's not long enough to be used in the "Loop Sling" configuration. You're giving up a lot shooting the carbine in a service rifle match. Good luck!
wh1

warriflefan · 09-29-2011, 10:52 PM

I'll do a few practice rounds first, if it doesn't work out mayble ill take out my 91/30. It shoots great with that winchester metric ammo (when I can find it).

warriflefan · 09-29-2011, 10:53 PM

Maybe I'll have to post a pic of my gold pin CMP next to the carbine when I get it during next year competition!!!

JLA · 09-30-2011, 08:19 PM

I have excellent luck with winchester metric 7.62X54R too! I buy as many as I can at a time when I find it. Great brass for reloading too! Luckily I have a Cheaper Than Dirt and a Military Gun Supply within 30 minutes of me. My finn 39 loves that stuff!

BikerNut · 11-08-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warhorse1

The carbine sling can be used as a "Hasty Sling". As you noted, it's not long enough to be used in the "Loop Sling" configuration. You're giving up a lot shooting the carbine in a service rifle match. Good luck!
wh1

I'm trying to figure out a solution to this sling conundrum also.

High Power/Service Rifle match season is over (around here at least) but I'm not ready to stop having fun yet. The range I belong to has "100-Yard Carbine Fun Matches" (AK/SKS/AR/M1 anything carbine length) and there's one match left this season, in one week.

I took the Garand sling off my AR, but of course the 1.25" crimped metal sling end won't fit through the front 1.00" sling swivel on the M1.

I'm going to try to rig up something using an old 1.25" AR "silent sling", which will squeeze through a 1.00" swivel... then improvise something for the arm loop.

My old 1943 Underwood is pretty damn accurate at 100 yards.

czndvet · 01-06-2012, 03:16 PM

Rule 9.2.2 in the 2010 CMP rule book states that "All rifles used in the National John C. Garand Match must be "as-issued" M1 Garands that comply with Rule 6.3.2 or Unlimited Garands that comply with Rule 6.4.1.

There is a separate event for M1 carbines. There are 4 stages, all at 100 yds. Go for it.

warriflefan · 02-18-2012, 11:15 AM

In the sacramento area, all the CMP M1 matches I have been to you can use whatever vintage military rifle you want as long as it is pre 1956. The
CMP form that you fill out allows you to specify the rifle used and has boxes to check for carbines, krags, 1903's etc. I'm still debating which rifle to take to the comps this year, they usually run from may to august. I've got some handloads for both rifles, but I also got my headspace problem with my enfield (that I have competed with in the past) fixed. It's headspace was only one hundreth of an inch off when I got it!

bobski · 04-24-2012, 08:13 AM

youre going to get waxed and go home with your tail btwn. your legs.
facts are facts.
get a garand!

warriflefan · 06-16-2012, 11:32 AM

Well I finally took the carbine out for the service rifle match. I scored a 219 in 20 mile an hour cross winds. All the rounds landed on the paper though. I shot better than all of the m1 garand shooters in this match. My carbine is bone stock, too. No target triggers, shooting jackets, elbow/knee pads or any of the other crutches that so many shooters use in these matches.

bobski · 06-16-2012, 01:34 PM

219...out of what? 500?
trust me, if you shot better than the M1 garand shooters, odds are they werent real skilled garand shooters...or youre shooting on a reduced target course.
what was your longest shot? just curious. 100yds maybe?

sounds to me you shot a carbine course, not a garand course.
sometimes called 'rack grade matches.'

earlier you mentioned 100 and 200. were the 200yd shots shot prone? if so, to give you a comparison, 200yds is where the M1 garand match begins.....OFFHAND.

i truly think what youre calling a garand match and what a garand match really is, are two different animals.

09-11-2011, 11:28 AM	#1
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	M1 carbine for Garand match I am going to try and compete this next summer in the M1 Garand matches in my area with an M1 Carbine. My NPM M1 Carbine can put about 90% in the 10 ring when shot from sandbags. Is it usual to use a sling for shooting these since the recoil is so light? My Carbine Sling isn't long enough to use like the Garand sling I put on my Enfield to compete. Would one of the woven Garand slings be best to compete with? __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson) -->

09-11-2011, 01:38 PM	#2
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Will they allow a carbine? It's a "Garand" Match, not a "M1" Match.

09-11-2011, 03:40 PM	#3
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,285	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Even if they allowed it you won't be shooting off sandbags and you will be shooting at 200, 300 and 600 yards. There is a reason it is a big bore match. Me thinking if you want to shoot that match you need to start saving your loose change and get yourself a Garand. __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

09-12-2011, 04:28 PM	#4
whirley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Contributor Posts: 457	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match The carbine cartridge is only a souped up pistol cartridge with a muzzle velocity of about 2000 FPs and you will be handicapping yourself. The M1 garand uses a cartridge with a velocity of about 2700 and a heavier bullet. No competition at all.

09-14-2011, 10:29 AM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,280	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match 200 yds is about the maximum range youd be able to hit the target with an M1 carbine. The round is just too weak and ballistically inferior for shooting beyond 200. Yeah the bullets will go that far but not with any kind of accuracy and repeatability. Id save up and get a garand. It aint gotta be a NM garand, but you need the ballistics of the .30-06 to consistently hit the 400 and 600 yd target with any kind of competitive consistency. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

09-18-2011, 05:55 PM	#6
DennymacFF Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: La Grange, KY Posts: 4	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Are the Garand matches that you are planning to shoot going to be fired at 100 or 200 yards? The Carbine is marginally decent at 100 yards and marginally inaccurate at 200 yards. You can shoot it if you want to, if they will allow it. The rules call for any Garand, Springfield, or Vintage Military rifle. The Carbine is not specifically mentioned. If they will allow you to fire the Carbine, take it and have a great time. But, you need a Garand to be competitive. Have a great day. DennyMac __________________ Freedom First, Negotiate Everything Else Later

09-24-2011, 11:31 AM	#7
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match The matches in my area are 100 and 200 yard. They are the CMP M1 garand matches, so they allow any military rifle made prior to 1956 if it is in it's original configuration. I shoot hornandy 100 grain semi jacketed spire point over 15 grains of w296 and it is great for accuracy at 100 yards, especially for the standing slow fire stage. The last match had everything from a 1911 schmidt rubin to and m14, so I'm sure a carbine would be eligible to shoot. Does anyone know how to adjust the sling for an M1 carbine for the prone fire stages? __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

09-24-2011, 11:39 AM	#8
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match The first match I competed in was won by a guy shooting a 30-40 krag. __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

09-24-2011, 02:29 PM	#9
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,285	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Google is your friend, try using it. http://ltdura.ho8.com/5.%20Prone.pdf __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

09-24-2011, 04:33 PM	#10
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match That link doesn't show how to set up an M1 carbine sling though. It is shorter than a standard sling, and it doesn't have the same sort of set up on the rear of the sling as a standard garand sling. __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

09-29-2011, 09:26 PM	#11
warhorse1 Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 36	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match The carbine sling can be used as a "Hasty Sling". As you noted, it's not long enough to be used in the "Loop Sling" configuration. You're giving up a lot shooting the carbine in a service rifle match. Good luck! wh1

09-29-2011, 10:52 PM	#12
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match I'll do a few practice rounds first, if it doesn't work out mayble ill take out my 91/30. It shoots great with that winchester metric ammo (when I can find it). __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

09-29-2011, 10:53 PM	#13
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Maybe I'll have to post a pic of my gold pin CMP next to the carbine when I get it during next year competition!!! __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

09-30-2011, 08:19 PM	#14
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,280	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match I have excellent luck with winchester metric 7.62X54R too! I buy as many as I can at a time when I find it. Great brass for reloading too! Luckily I have a Cheaper Than Dirt and a Military Gun Supply within 30 minutes of me. My finn 39 loves that stuff! __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

01-06-2012, 03:16 PM	#16
czndvet Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: south central Alabama Posts: 12	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Rule 9.2.2 in the 2010 CMP rule book states that "All rifles used in the National John C. Garand Match must be "as-issued" M1 Garands that comply with Rule 6.3.2 or Unlimited Garands that comply with Rule 6.4.1. There is a separate event for M1 carbines. There are 4 stages, all at 100 yds. Go for it. __________________ In memory of SFC William Sherril Stinson, KIA near Quang Tri City, 08 Jan 1973. Last edited by czndvet; 01-06-2012 at 03:20 PM..

02-18-2012, 11:15 AM	#17
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match In the sacramento area, all the CMP M1 matches I have been to you can use whatever vintage military rifle you want as long as it is pre 1956. The CMP form that you fill out allows you to specify the rifle used and has boxes to check for carbines, krags, 1903's etc. I'm still debating which rifle to take to the comps this year, they usually run from may to august. I've got some handloads for both rifles, but I also got my headspace problem with my enfield (that I have competed with in the past) fixed. It's headspace was only one hundreth of an inch off when I got it! __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

04-24-2012, 08:13 AM	#18
bobski Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: va., conn., & mo. Posts: 948	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match youre going to get waxed and go home with your tail btwn. your legs. facts are facts. get a garand!

06-16-2012, 11:32 AM	#19
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match Well I finally took the carbine out for the service rifle match. I scored a 219 in 20 mile an hour cross winds. All the rounds landed on the paper though. I shot better than all of the m1 garand shooters in this match. My carbine is bone stock, too. No target triggers, shooting jackets, elbow/knee pads or any of the other crutches that so many shooters use in these matches. __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

06-16-2012, 01:34 PM	#20
bobski Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: va., conn., & mo. Posts: 948	Re: M1 carbine for Garand match 219...out of what? 500? trust me, if you shot better than the M1 garand shooters, odds are they werent real skilled garand shooters...or youre shooting on a reduced target course. what was your longest shot? just curious. 100yds maybe? sounds to me you shot a carbine course, not a garand course. sometimes called 'rack grade matches.' earlier you mentioned 100 and 200. were the 200yd shots shot prone? if so, to give you a comparison, 200yds is where the M1 garand match begins.....OFFHAND. i truly think what youre calling a garand match and what a garand match really is, are two different animals. Last edited by bobski; 06-16-2012 at 03:28 PM..