Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads - The Firearms Forum

Chebyshev · 10-03-2011, 10:08 AM

I went to sight in my Ruger M77 Mark 2 this weekend in preparation for the upcoming whitetail season in the east. I had horrible problems getting groups from the new rounds I loaded this year and was hoping to get some recommendations from more experienced reloaders.

In the past I used 130 grain Speer Grand Slams with 56 grains of IMR7828 and was able to shoot 1" groups at 100yds without much problem.

This year I tried loading up some 130g Hornady InterLock SST to try something new. I started with 58 grains IMR7828 and was shooting horrible 8" groups. I think they were a bit hot because the primer was flattened and cratered so I backed it off to 56 grains IMR7828 and shot more like 2". I tried some with 52 grains of IMR4350 and got maybe 3" groups. I was basing these choices on the hodgdon website reloading tables and the Speer manual.

Does anyone have experience with this caliber/bullet combo? What do you use for powder? What about seating depth? I haven't messed with that too much, I've just been seating them to about the mid point of the cannelure.

howlnmad · 10-03-2011, 10:54 AM

Have tried adjusting your OAL with these different components?

gdmoody · 10-03-2011, 11:13 AM

Welcome to The Forum, Chebyshev.

I know that you have checked that your scope is still securely fastened to your rifle. I do not have a .270 and I don not use IMR powders but from what you say, you might want to hover around the 55 to 57 grain loads and try 1/2 grain increments to see which one is best OR go back to the Grand Slam bullets.

Chebyshev · 10-03-2011, 12:05 PM

@howlnmad: I did load the second batch (56 grains of 7828) a bit longer because we figured maybe that was part of the problem, but I didn't do any fancy testing like is outlined here http://www.larrywillis.com/OAL.html

@gdmooody: Yes, I checked the scope mounts and the screws that hold the receiver. Everything was tight. The scope hasn't been removed/moved for probably 5 years.

myfriendis410 · 10-03-2011, 01:12 PM

I would suggest a thorough cleaning. Use something like CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 and clean until the patches are tan or white. Ruger rifles I've handled in recent years seem to have a somewhat rough bore. I worked up a 77 Mk II in 7mm r.m. last year and this was the case. Ten shots and you'd better clean it thoroughly.

Somebody on another forum was having trouble with their Tikka and everyone chimed in with the suggestion to clean. He did and his problem went right away.

As to powder; I load for my hunting partner's .270, and the standard for that round really is IMR 4350. I prefer Federal 210M's over any other as a general rule. Be sure your brass is trimmed to maintain even neck tension on the bullet.

woolleyworm · 10-03-2011, 01:32 PM

With every bullet/powder change in a bolt action, I'll do a ladder test. Even though the bullets you're using are the same wt, they are probably much different in design and BC. Take the time to load/shoot 20 rounds with the ladder test and you'll get a clear picture of whats going on with your loads.

Are you FL or neck sizing?

Semper Fi and welcome to TFF,

Woolley

Chebyshev · 10-03-2011, 01:42 PM

The rifle was cleaned at the end of last season and I plan on cleaning it prior to more shooting. I don't think this is an issue.

@woolleyworm: I am FL sizing. By ladder test you mean changing the load by a 0.5 grains every 3 shots or something to see what amount of powder works the best?

312shooter · 10-03-2011, 01:50 PM

First neck size the brass you fired in the rifle and start at a minimum charge. You changed your bullet/powder combination therefore your load development needs to backup to square 1. After the aforementioned cleaning try the original moa recipe and verify you don't have action, scope or barrel problem. Try another powder with the hornadys and go have fun shooting.

Chebyshev · 10-03-2011, 02:10 PM

From everything I've read, neck sizing the brass doesn't really make that much of a difference in production hunting rifles, it is more for precision bench shooting or varmint loads. I don't even have a neck sizing die for .270.

312shooter · 10-03-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chebyshev

From everything I've read, neck sizing the brass doesn't really make that much of a difference in production hunting rifles, it is more for precision bench shooting or varmint loads. I don't even have a neck sizing die for .270.

I disagree totally and yes you do have a neck sizing die! A neck resizing can be accomplished by backing your FL sizing die off a touch. Search around and you'll find out besides accurizing your loads, you are accomplishing much more. While maintaining a good fit in your rifle chamber you are minimizing the cases from stretching, less brass flow, less trimming and longer life of the cartrige. You have the opportunity to produce VERY accurate ammo in your inherently accurate 270, don't close the door on potential!

myfriendis410 · 10-03-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chebyshev

The rifle was cleaned at the end of last season and I plan on cleaning it prior to more shooting. I don't think this is an issue.

@woolleyworm: I am FL sizing. By ladder test you mean changing the load by a 0.5 grains every 3 shots or something to see what amount of powder works the best?

Did you use an aggressive copper remover? If you used Hoppe's #9 you are not getting any of the copper out. I like and use the CR10 made by Barnes. A wet nylon brush is introduced into the rifle and passed through ten times and allowed to stand for five minutes. A dry patch is then pushed through. Repeat until no blue or green tint is present on the patches. I found out the hard way that I had a copper fouling issue and returned the rifle to it's former 1/4" groups by a thorough cleaning, which took me three hours. Really quite an amazing amount of copper came out.

JLA · 10-03-2011, 06:47 PM

Ladder test..
http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/m...incredload.pdf

Set your seating depth to .050" off bullet jam and dont change it until you have sorted the most consistent load. Best way to determine bullet jam is here...

1 Eyed Jack · 10-03-2011, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

Ladder test..
http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/m...incredload.pdf

Set your seating depth to .050" off bullet jam and dont change it until you have sorted the most consistent load. Best way to determine bullet jam is here...

JLA, the link you provided here is a great read, I'm about half way through, oustanding info,

10-03-2011, 10:08 AM	#1
Chebyshev Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 4	Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads I went to sight in my Ruger M77 Mark 2 this weekend in preparation for the upcoming whitetail season in the east. I had horrible problems getting groups from the new rounds I loaded this year and was hoping to get some recommendations from more experienced reloaders. In the past I used 130 grain Speer Grand Slams with 56 grains of IMR7828 and was able to shoot 1" groups at 100yds without much problem. This year I tried loading up some 130g Hornady InterLock SST to try something new. I started with 58 grains IMR7828 and was shooting horrible 8" groups. I think they were a bit hot because the primer was flattened and cratered so I backed it off to 56 grains IMR7828 and shot more like 2". I tried some with 52 grains of IMR4350 and got maybe 3" groups. I was basing these choices on the hodgdon website reloading tables and the Speer manual. Does anyone have experience with this caliber/bullet combo? What do you use for powder? What about seating depth? I haven't messed with that too much, I've just been seating them to about the mid point of the cannelure. -->

10-03-2011, 10:54 AM	#2
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,573	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads Have tried adjusting your OAL with these different components? __________________

10-03-2011, 11:13 AM	#3
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,358	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads Welcome to The Forum, Chebyshev. I know that you have checked that your scope is still securely fastened to your rifle. I do not have a .270 and I don not use IMR powders but from what you say, you might want to hover around the 55 to 57 grain loads and try 1/2 grain increments to see which one is best OR go back to the Grand Slam bullets. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

10-03-2011, 12:05 PM	#4
Chebyshev Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 4	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads @howlnmad: I did load the second batch (56 grains of 7828) a bit longer because we figured maybe that was part of the problem, but I didn't do any fancy testing like is outlined here http://www.larrywillis.com/OAL.html @gdmooody: Yes, I checked the scope mounts and the screws that hold the receiver. Everything was tight. The scope hasn't been removed/moved for probably 5 years. Last edited by Chebyshev; 10-03-2011 at 12:29 PM..

10-03-2011, 01:12 PM	#5
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 543	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads I would suggest a thorough cleaning. Use something like CR10 or Sweet's 7.62 and clean until the patches are tan or white. Ruger rifles I've handled in recent years seem to have a somewhat rough bore. I worked up a 77 Mk II in 7mm r.m. last year and this was the case. Ten shots and you'd better clean it thoroughly. Somebody on another forum was having trouble with their Tikka and everyone chimed in with the suggestion to clean. He did and his problem went right away. As to powder; I load for my hunting partner's .270, and the standard for that round really is IMR 4350. I prefer Federal 210M's over any other as a general rule. Be sure your brass is trimmed to maintain even neck tension on the bullet. __________________ Life's too short to shoot an ugly gun.....

10-03-2011, 01:32 PM	#6
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,884	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads With every bullet/powder change in a bolt action, I'll do a ladder test. Even though the bullets you're using are the same wt, they are probably much different in design and BC. Take the time to load/shoot 20 rounds with the ladder test and you'll get a clear picture of whats going on with your loads. Are you FL or neck sizing? Semper Fi and welcome to TFF, Woolley __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

10-03-2011, 01:42 PM	#7
Chebyshev Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 4	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads The rifle was cleaned at the end of last season and I plan on cleaning it prior to more shooting. I don't think this is an issue. @woolleyworm: I am FL sizing. By ladder test you mean changing the load by a 0.5 grains every 3 shots or something to see what amount of powder works the best?

10-03-2011, 01:50 PM	#8
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads First neck size the brass you fired in the rifle and start at a minimum charge. You changed your bullet/powder combination therefore your load development needs to backup to square 1. After the aforementioned cleaning try the original moa recipe and verify you don't have action, scope or barrel problem. Try another powder with the hornadys and go have fun shooting. __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin

10-03-2011, 02:10 PM	#9
Chebyshev Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 4	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads From everything I've read, neck sizing the brass doesn't really make that much of a difference in production hunting rifles, it is more for precision bench shooting or varmint loads. I don't even have a neck sizing die for .270.

10-03-2011, 06:47 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,320	Re: Trouble Grouping .270 Win Loads Ladder test.. http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/m...incredload.pdf Set your seating depth to .050" off bullet jam and dont change it until you have sorted the most consistent load. Best way to determine bullet jam is here... Attached Images __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!