improving the glock trigger pull

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Boris

They were designed so you could take 100 1911s apart, put the parts into a huge pile, shake and mix them up then put a 100 pistols together from the same pile..

The same is true for Glock.
To be perfectly honest, a 1911 would not be my choice for combat. I do not care if it is a bone stock mil spec or a Wilson, 1911's and sand do not get along very well.

[focusmaniaczx3]

okay no need to apologize for derailing my thread because ive already learned all i needed about the trigger job on my gun and have decided to just leave it with the 3.5lb connector and nothing else. anything more is just too much.

otherwise this thread is extremely amusing. the 1911 is a great and beautiful gun but it cannot beat a glock in bang for your buck, reliability, versatility, or ammo capacity.

i will now defend my statement.

i DARE you to find a 1911 that is worth a damn for $500. taurus comes closest i think.

i dare you to find a 1911 that is more reliable than a glock. even a custom job. glock has a G17 barrel that they have been firing rounds through for god knows how long. last i checked it was over 1million factory rounds deep and still kicking. personally ive put thousands or rounds through my glock and have never had any kind of FTF or FTE with a glock factory mag. i even went a full 6 months and minimum of 2500 rounds without cleaning the gun a single time and STILL never had an issue. try that 1911 fan boys.

versatility: you can shoot a glock underwater for goodness sake. drop it in mud, let it lay in a sand box for a few days, or anything else you can think of and the gun still fires. sand isnt a friend of ANY gun and will cause it to wear more and will increase the likelyhood of FTF and FTE but it is minimal in a glock when compared to a 1911. all of this could possibly be put under reliability still tho. the real versatile part of the glock is the fact that you CAN throw 100 dismantled glocks into a pile and put them all back together and you would probably never know. the gun wont rattle or have any other issues to speak of unless you throw different types of glocks into the pile like g21s and g26s into the same pile. but this brings me to my next point. a subcompact glock will accept full size glock mags so technically even the baby glock still has full size glock ammo capacity. also baby glocks can interchange full size glock long barrels so they still have the accuracy. also you can change the caliber bullet that a glock fires simply by changing the slide/upper and magazine. and the gun will still function like a glock. it goes bang every time with no FTEs, FTFs, and it accurately puts lead down range. try that will your mil spec 1911.

now the ammo capacity statement is plenty easy. a single stack 1911 has less ammo capacity than ANY glock. and a double stack 1911 only holds 13 whereas my glock 21 in .45acp holds 15. and if i were to be a real dick about it i could say that it holds 27 since those variations of the G18 hi-cap mag are readily available and i have a few of them. they are ridiculous for any kind of legitimate SD scenario tho.

with that said i still think that 1911's are wonderful guns. they are pretty and if there is anything about the gun that you dont like then you can change it. they are fairly reliable and can be nail drivers if they are put together right. they are available in double stack even though those are proven to have nasty feeding issues. and the fact that they have what i would consider an actual safety is the ONLY thing that the 1911 has a leg up on the glock for. except that even that can be overcome by buying a $15 saf t blok to cram behind the glock trigger to use as a safety. the only trouble about that is that you have to find your safety on the ground afterwards to turn the glock safety back on so i would still say that the 1911 has a leg up on this specific point.

[Boris]

You Can use a G19 barrel in a G26 but you cannt use a G17 barrel in a G19.

[hogger129]

i DARE you to find a 1911 that is worth a damn for $500. taurus comes closest i think.

Rock Island Armory 1911-A1. I had one I bought for $500 and it was 100%.


Now as for Glock vs. 1911 --

-In order for a Glock to feed more reliably, it has to have more of its supporting chambers cut away - resulting in the round not being fully supported. People say 1911s need a little work to get them to run right. I've never owned one like that - all mine fed 100% out of the box using 230 grain ammo (ball rounds and hollow points), but whatever. JB never designed it to feed all these fancy schmancy loadings and different bullet shapes.

-I never heard of a 1911 needing to go back because of an improperly manufactured frame rail.

-Uniformity vs. individuality

-There are 1911s going with 150,000 rounds or more on them.

-An average 1911 is more accurate than the best Glock.

-The trigger is better in the 1911

-The 1911 went though all the mud, dirt and crap during WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and even in the Gulf when the M9s started jamming because of the sand.

-Numerous SWAT teams across America obviously saw something of value in the 1911 since it's the chosen weapon of LAPD SWAT, FBI Hostage Rescue Team, even Delta Force is rumored to use the 1911. All these people could have chosen the Glock and they didn't.


Now I want to make clear I am not saying Glock sucks, I am just saying that the 1911 is a superior weapon in every way except weight and ammunition capacity. Even at that, there are lightweight versions with frames not made from steel (Wilson Combat even makes a polymer frame 1911), and the ammo capacity issue is all shot full of holes because there are double-stack versions. Also, with the type of accuracy the 1911 offers, coupled with the power of the .45ACP round, 7 to 8 rounds is plenty for me.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by hogger129

Rock Island Armory 1911-A1. I had one I bought for $500 and it was 100%.


Now as for Glock vs. 1911 --

-In order for a Glock to feed more reliably, it has to have more of its supporting chambers cut away - resulting in the round not being fully supported. People say 1911s need a little work to get them to run right. I've never owned one like that - all mine fed 100% out of the box using 230 grain ammo (ball rounds and hollow points), but whatever. JB never designed it to feed all these fancy schmancy loadings and different bullet shapes.

-I never heard of a 1911 needing to go back because of an improperly manufactured frame rail.

-Uniformity vs. individuality

-There are 1911s going with 150,000 rounds or more on them.

-An average 1911 is more accurate than the best Glock.

-The trigger is better in the 1911

-The 1911 went though all the mud, dirt and crap during WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and even in the Gulf when the M9s started jamming because of the sand.

-Numerous SWAT teams across America obviously saw something of value in the 1911 since it's the chosen weapon of LAPD SWAT, FBI Hostage Rescue Team, even Delta Force is rumored to use the 1911. All these people could have chosen the Glock and they didn't.


Now I want to make clear I am not saying Glock sucks, I am just saying that the 1911 is a superior weapon in every way except weight and ammunition capacity. Even at that, there are lightweight versions with frames not made from steel (Wilson Combat even makes a polymer frame 1911), and the ammo capacity issue is all shot full of holes because there are double-stack versions. Also, with the type of accuracy the 1911 offers, coupled with the power of the .45ACP round, 7 to 8 rounds is plenty for me.

The majority of 1911s out there are built more like a mil spec 1911. Accuracy is terrible from a mil spec 1911. Never seen one shoot anywhere near what a Glock can. Not all 1911s are out of spec overly tight match grade guns that require constant care to keep running right. A match grade 1911 won't shoot 1000 rounds without a cleaning with out loss of reliability. Not the case with a Glock, now a mil spec1911 will keep on running, but then you have the loss of accuracy over a Glock. 1911s have one or the other, never both.

The so called unsupported chamber issue is for 40 caliber Glocks when fired with over pressure or weak brass rounds only. It is not an issue in other calibers. To get a 1911 as reliable with newfangled hollow points the chamber will look more like a Glocks 40 chamber. I have seen more throated 1911s Kb than Glocks of any caliber. Just my observation. I got plenty of pics of Kb'd 1911s. You can google them up too.

Triggers, a mil spec 1911 will have a bunch of take u p, lots of grit and over travel. The trigger pull on a mil spec 1911 will range from 5-7#. Glocks run a consistent 5 and can be dropped down a good bit faster than you can turn on the radio and change the CD in it (done it) 1911s require individual attention. No two will smooth out with the same operations done on both.

To get a 1911 as accurate as a Glock you will have to spend over a grand, then it will not be as reliable because it's overly tight out of spec build.

The G37 I have right now is the single most accurate rack grade pistol my hands have fired. No SA, Kimber, you name it, as long as it was rack grade has ever shot this go,od for me either owned or that I have shot.

Bottom line is you get accuracy with a tuned trigger or a reliable combat accurate pistol when it comes to 1911s. Rack grade Glocks are always reliable and will far more accurate than an equally reliable 1911.

Let's not even get into custom Glocks that are just as tight as any national match 1911. They even have metal frames for them. We could compare match grade custom Glocks to custom match grade 1911s all day and none of us will know the difference. Compare an original spec 1911 to an original spec Glock and the difference is huge. And it is not in favor of the old warhorse either.

[hogger129]

ehh idc i'll still shoot better with a run-of-the-mill 1911 than the best Glock. I'm not trying to make up excuses for why 1911s are better. If you go back far enough in these posts, you'll see that someone bashed 1911s, and half the time it's people who have never used one in their life.

if 1911s are so bad like you say, how come every gun that comes out on the market is always being compared to a 1911?

even a CZ-75 has a better trigger than a Glock.

By the way, the Glock is built crappy, explodes because of that unsupported chamber, and is ugly. And that little lever isn't a safety.

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by Boris

The majority of 1911s out there are built more like a mil spec 1911. Accuracy is terrible from a mil spec 1911. Never seen one shoot anywhere near what a Glock can. Not all 1911s are out of spec overly tight match grade guns that require constant care to keep running right. A match grade 1911 won't shoot 1000 rounds without a cleaning with out loss of reliability. Not the case with a Glock, now a mil spec1911 will keep on running, but then you have the loss of accuracy over a Glock. 1911s have one or the other, never both.

The so called unsupported chamber issue is for 40 caliber Glocks when fired with over pressure or weak brass rounds only. It is not an issue in other calibers. To get a 1911 as reliable with newfangled hollow points the chamber will look more like a Glocks 40 chamber. I have seen more throated 1911s Kb than Glocks of any caliber. Just my observation. I got plenty of pics of Kb'd 1911s. You can google them up too.

Triggers, a mil spec 1911 will have a bunch of take u p, lots of grit and over travel. The trigger pull on a mil spec 1911 will range from 5-7#. Glocks run a consistent 5 and can be dropped down a good bit faster than you can turn on the radio and change the CD in it (done it) 1911s require individual attention. No two will smooth out with the same operations done on both.

To get a 1911 as accurate as a Glock you will have to spend over a grand, then it will not be as reliable because it's overly tight out of spec build.

The G37 I have right now is the single most accurate rack grade pistol my hands have fired. No SA, Kimber, you name it, as long as it was rack grade has ever shot this go,od for me either owned or that I have shot.

Bottom line is you get accuracy with a tuned trigger or a reliable combat accurate pistol when it comes to 1911s. Rack grade Glocks are always reliable and will far more accurate than an equally reliable 1911.

Let's not even get into custom Glocks that are just as tight as any national match 1911. They even have metal frames for them. We could compare match grade custom Glocks to custom match grade 1911s all day and none of us will know the difference. Compare an original spec 1911 to an original spec Glock and the difference is huge. And it is not in favor of the old warhorse either.

That must be why I put 7 rounds into the 10 spot with my buddy's bone stock 1991A1 and hit 6 of 10 shots with a Glock 36 inside the 7 ring.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Boris

You Can use a G19 barrel in a G26 but you cannt use a G17 barrel in a G19.

But you can use every g17 barrel in every other g-17. As far as that goes, you can take the engine out of one 2011 Corvette and put it in another 2011 Corvette. Interchangable parts are not evidence of a poor product.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by hogger129

That must be why I put 7 rounds into the 10 spot with my buddy's bone stock 1991A1 and hit 6 of 10 shots with a Glock 36 inside the 7 ring.

Actually it has more to do with the fact that a single action trigger is much easier to manipulate than a double. In the right hands, all shots would have been in the 10 ring from both weapons.

[jacksonco]

I like my 1911s better than my Glocks, but I shoot the Glocks better and if I had to choose which one for a shtf situation I would choose the Glock over the 1911 models.

I just like the cosmetic appeal of the 1911 better. But the Glock is a great looking gun in its own right.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by hogger129

ehh idc i'll still shoot better with a run-of-the-mill 1911 than the best Glock. I'm not trying to make up excuses for why 1911s are better. If you go back far enough in these posts, you'll see that someone bashed 1911s, and half the time it's people who have never used one in their life.

if 1911s are so bad like you say, how come every gun that comes out on the market is always being compared to a 1911?

even a CZ-75 has a better trigger than a Glock.

By the way, the Glock is built crappy, explodes because of that unsupported chamber, and is ugly. And that little lever isn't a safety.

It all depends on what you are doing with a weapon as to what you prefer.

If you go through our SWAT course with a 1911, you will not be as big a Glock hater as you are now. When the 1911 gets full of sand, it no longer works so well. Sand to the Glock is like sand to the AK, really has no effect on either of them. I have only seen one Glock explode and it was due to a double powder charge. This was confirmed by analysis of other ammo from that lot. As far as trigger goes, they all have their purpose. Why not put a 1.5 oz Jewel on your hunting rifle?

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Boris

The majority of 1911s out there are built more like a mil spec 1911. Accuracy is terrible from a mil spec 1911. Never seen one shoot anywhere near what a Glock can. Not all 1911s are out of spec overly tight match grade guns that require constant care to keep running right. A match grade 1911 won't shoot 1000 rounds without a cleaning with out loss of reliability. Not the case with a Glock, now a mil spec1911 will keep on running, but then you have the loss of accuracy over a Glock. 1911s have one or the other, never both.

The so called unsupported chamber issue is for 40 caliber Glocks when fired with over pressure or weak brass rounds only. It is not an issue in other calibers. To get a 1911 as reliable with newfangled hollow points the chamber will look more like a Glocks 40 chamber. I have seen more throated 1911s Kb than Glocks of any caliber. Just my observation. I got plenty of pics of Kb'd 1911s. You can google them up too.

Triggers, a mil spec 1911 will have a bunch of take u p, lots of grit and over travel. The trigger pull on a mil spec 1911 will range from 5-7#. Glocks run a consistent 5 and can be dropped down a good bit faster than you can turn on the radio and change the CD in it (done it) 1911s require individual attention. No two will smooth out with the same operations done on both.

To get a 1911 as accurate as a Glock you will have to spend over a grand, then it will not be as reliable because it's overly tight out of spec build.

The G37 I have right now is the single most accurate rack grade pistol my hands have fired. No SA, Kimber, you name it, as long as it was rack grade has ever shot this go,od for me either owned or that I have shot.

Bottom line is you get accuracy with a tuned trigger or a reliable combat accurate pistol when it comes to 1911s. Rack grade Glocks are always reliable and will far more accurate than an equally reliable 1911.

Let's not even get into custom Glocks that are just as tight as any national match 1911. They even have metal frames for them. We could compare match grade custom Glocks to custom match grade 1911s all day and none of us will know the difference. Compare an original spec 1911 to an original spec Glock and the difference is huge. And it is not in favor of the old warhorse either.

In all fairness, when you get away from polymer, you in all honesty no longer have a Glock. To me, race guns are race guns, no matter who makes them. They are their own creature. They are about as akin to what they are supposed to be as Tony Stewarts car is a Monte Carlo.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

But you can use every g17 barrel in every other g-17. As far as that goes, you can take the engine out of one 2011 Corvette and put it in another 2011 Corvette. Interchangable parts are not evidence of a poor product.

It won't fit. They have different dimensions

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Boris

It won't fit. They have different dimensions

You are going to have to elaborate. Glock 17 barrels are interchangable with all other glock 17s. The only 17 that a standard 17 barrel will not fit is a L.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

In all fairness, when you get away from polymer, you in all honesty no longer have a Glock. To me, race guns are race guns, no matter who makes them. They are their own creature. They are about as akin to what they are supposed to be as Tony Stewarts car is a Monte Carlo.

Amen!!!

So well said..

Too many here try to compare a national match 1911 against bone stock Glock for a 100 round range session on a 2D one way range.

Put a bone stock JMB spec against a bone stock Gaston Glock and the Glock won't pop a plunger tube in a couple thousand rounds, or break a slide stop or a bushing.

An in spec 1911 is not as mechanically accurate as a Glock, a national match 1911 will shoot the lights out of a Glock, but will be nowhere as reliable.

I shoot IPSC a lot and never see Glocks choke. A couple fellas at a shoot a couple years ago made fun of me and my buddies Glocks. I asked the most vocal one how many stages before his super accurate 1911 choked. He made it to the middle of the second stage before he had multiple problems. Every stage it was a new excuse. The rain, got dirt in his mags, shot too many rounds and needed cleaning. Even was so brash as to tell me at the end if his gun was running he would have beat us! Never saw the guy again after that.

Me on the other hand, give me a reliable in spec weapon and I will shoot the chit out of any match. If the CZ82 would knock over the poppers I would be right up there with that gun. Give me enough time to reload the 1895 Nagant and I would have shown him a thing or two. Infect I could have reloaded in time to give him a run for his money, he had that many troubles.

I don't buy all the talk when I have heard it all on the line against the timer. Cyber talk is no different. FWIW at the ranges we were at I coulda smoked him with a bone stock in spec 1911. There ain't a gun out there that is going to make me a better shooter at this point in my life. Give me a gun and I will give you a run you probably ain't ready for. I don't need a super crisp breaking 1911 trigger to make me a better shooter and with most people that's what it boils down to. Mechanics or lack of is how I have seen it at matches, the range and what the kids call down range.

Just sayin