help identify old shotgun - The Firearms Forum

noumanzia · 11-29-2011, 01:08 PM

I have a old single shot 12G, i was told it french, i have scanned through the gun and found somethings like,
Manufactured by Net d armes de grate , erauit somthing like that
acier special
I am also attaching pics , please held me, Thanks

BillM · 11-29-2011, 02:56 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Do you have a question?

Alpo · 11-29-2011, 05:02 PM

The star-over-PT is a French proof. Smokeless, from 1900. The 70 should be the chamber length, in millimeters, which is 2 1/2 inches, so do not fire modern ammo in it.

You can either buy 2 1/2 inch shells, which, while scarce, are out there, but quite expensive (around 10 to 15 bucks a box) or have the chamber lengthened.

2 3/4" shells will fit in a 2 1/2 inch chamber, and fire, but they won't open enough, so the pressures will skyrocket. Bad juju.

StoneChimney · 11-29-2011, 08:57 PM

Looks like Manufacture d'Armes de Chatellerault to me. It's a side-by-side, not a single-barrel shotgun. That should be an MAC in a diamond.

Acier Special just means "Special Steel" and is a common marking on French shotguns.

1920's-1930's probably, but that's a guess.

noumanzia · 11-30-2011, 04:08 AM

I need to know the name of GUN and its manufacturer??

Hawg · 11-30-2011, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noumanzia

I need to know the name of GUN and its manufacturer??

The Manufacture d'armes de Chatellerault was a French state owned weapons manufacturer in the town of Chatellerault.

jack404 · 11-30-2011, 04:18 AM

manufacturer is as in your pic the names ( model ) is on the far side of the lug's in your pic
from memory

Hawg your spot on Government arm's (Nat. d'Armes) manufacturer at Chatellerault

noumanzia · 11-30-2011, 04:59 AM

Thanks all for replying and helping in identifying the weapon, i have added another pic. May be it can help in idetifying the model ( Name) of shotgun. Moreover , could any one tell me its worth now a days??

Hawg · 11-30-2011, 10:33 AM

It's an Acier Special.

StoneChimney · 11-30-2011, 06:53 PM

Acier Special simply means Special Steel and refers to what the barrels are made of. It is not a model name. Not all guns have model names, particularly European guns. If you just have to have a name for it, I would pick George.

These guns are not heavily collected and would have value as a shooter. $300-$350 or so.

jack404 · 11-30-2011, 07:09 PM

i think its the etttiene a copy made by the Chatellerault for the anniversary of St Ettiene armaments factory , the ettiene factory got the new legion weapons contract so could not make all its own commemorative editions and Chatellerault made quite few ( from reading in different books ) the markings all match, and i cant find any other double gun made by Chatellerault, lots of singles but no doubles with the exception of the St ettiene commemorative and these where not a cheap or common gun , one sale in the UK last year saw one sell for near to $700 USD ( $640 plus buyer premium) the EU is the place to get the best value for these as else where they are just another gun .. and hard to get parts for ..

StoneChimney · 11-30-2011, 07:24 PM

Not a commemorative. This is a shooter/hunter grade double. They are uncommon in the US but not uncommon in Europe, primarily in 16 gauge.

jack404 · 11-30-2011, 07:37 PM

then i dunno what it is as i cant find any other double at Chatellerault

some made elsewhere and proofed there but none made there

even the Castellum Airaldi model was made elsewhere and thats the original name of Chatellerault...

but undocumented guns from france , not uncommon at all

StoneChimney · 11-30-2011, 07:43 PM

There have been several MAC 16ga SxS shotguns with these same markings show up from time to time. Heck, even once on this forum:

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=2818

MAC made shooter/hunter grade side-by-side shotguns until 1968. They are not collected as far as I know. If the gun is solid, we can lengthen the chambers for 2 3/4" shotgun shells and modernize the forcing cones.

JBBR · 10-01-2012, 12:34 AM

Your Shotgun is a Made in France "MAC" and the 70 is for 70 cm which is a 2 3/4 modern shell not the 2 1/2 shell. If it was labled 65, it would have been for a 2 1/2 inch shell.

Jim K · 10-01-2012, 03:45 PM

FWIW, I don't think that gun is "old"; it appears to be a modern, Post-WWII, utilitarian grade gun, not a commemorative or of any special quality. It is chambered for 7cm (2 3/4") shells; the barrels are of nickel-chrome steel and have current French proof marks.

I would consider it a good hunting gun, but not antique or collectible.

Jim

RJay · 10-01-2012, 03:57 PM

Old post never die, they just keep being answered, done it my self.

11-29-2011, 01:08 PM	#1
noumanzia Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3	help identify old shotgun I have a old single shot 12G, i was told it french, i have scanned through the gun and found somethings like, Manufactured by Net d armes de grate , erauit somthing like that acier special I am also attaching pics , please held me, Thanks Attached Images --> Last edited by noumanzia; 11-30-2011 at 04:52 AM..

11-29-2011, 02:56 PM	#2
BillM V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Amity Orygun Posts: 380	Re: help identify old shotgun Welcome to the forum. Do you have a question?

11-29-2011, 05:02 PM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,658	Re: help identify old shotgun The star-over-PT is a French proof. Smokeless, from 1900. The 70 should be the chamber length, in millimeters, which is 2 1/2 inches, so do not fire modern ammo in it. You can either buy 2 1/2 inch shells, which, while scarce, are out there, but quite expensive (around 10 to 15 bucks a box) or have the chamber lengthened. 2 3/4" shells will fit in a 2 1/2 inch chamber, and fire, but they won't open enough, so the pressures will skyrocket. Bad juju. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

11-29-2011, 08:57 PM	#4
StoneChimney Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,087	Re: help identify old shotgun Looks like Manufacture d'Armes de Chatellerault to me. It's a side-by-side, not a single-barrel shotgun. That should be an MAC in a diamond. Acier Special just means "Special Steel" and is a common marking on French shotguns. 1920's-1930's probably, but that's a guess. __________________ Full service gunsmithing and firearm manufacturing shop. Licensed FFL 07/02 Manufacturer. Visit our website!

11-30-2011, 04:08 AM	#5
noumanzia Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3	Re: help identify old shotgun I need to know the name of GUN and its manufacturer??

11-30-2011, 04:18 AM	#7
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: help identify old shotgun manufacturer is as in your pic the names ( model ) is on the far side of the lug's in your pic from memory Hawg your spot on Government arm's (Nat. d'Armes) manufacturer at Chatellerault Attached Images Last edited by jack404; 11-30-2011 at 04:22 AM..

11-30-2011, 04:59 AM	#8
noumanzia Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3	Re: help identify old shotgun Thanks all for replying and helping in identifying the weapon, i have added another pic. May be it can help in idetifying the model ( Name) of shotgun. Moreover , could any one tell me its worth now a days??

11-30-2011, 10:33 AM	#9
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,557	Re: help identify old shotgun It's an Acier Special.

11-30-2011, 06:53 PM	#10
StoneChimney Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,087	Re: help identify old shotgun Acier Special simply means Special Steel and refers to what the barrels are made of. It is not a model name. Not all guns have model names, particularly European guns. If you just have to have a name for it, I would pick George. These guns are not heavily collected and would have value as a shooter. $300-$350 or so. __________________ Full service gunsmithing and firearm manufacturing shop. Licensed FFL 07/02 Manufacturer. Visit our website!

11-30-2011, 07:09 PM	#11
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: help identify old shotgun i think its the etttiene a copy made by the Chatellerault for the anniversary of St Ettiene armaments factory , the ettiene factory got the new legion weapons contract so could not make all its own commemorative editions and Chatellerault made quite few ( from reading in different books ) the markings all match, and i cant find any other double gun made by Chatellerault, lots of singles but no doubles with the exception of the St ettiene commemorative and these where not a cheap or common gun , one sale in the UK last year saw one sell for near to $700 USD ( $640 plus buyer premium) the EU is the place to get the best value for these as else where they are just another gun .. and hard to get parts for ..

11-30-2011, 07:24 PM	#12
StoneChimney Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,087	Re: help identify old shotgun Not a commemorative. This is a shooter/hunter grade double. They are uncommon in the US but not uncommon in Europe, primarily in 16 gauge. __________________ Full service gunsmithing and firearm manufacturing shop. Licensed FFL 07/02 Manufacturer. Visit our website!

11-30-2011, 07:37 PM	#13
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: help identify old shotgun then i dunno what it is as i cant find any other double at Chatellerault some made elsewhere and proofed there but none made there even the Castellum Airaldi model was made elsewhere and thats the original name of Chatellerault... but undocumented guns from france , not uncommon at all

11-30-2011, 07:43 PM	#14
StoneChimney Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,087	Re: help identify old shotgun There have been several MAC 16ga SxS shotguns with these same markings show up from time to time. Heck, even once on this forum: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=2818 MAC made shooter/hunter grade side-by-side shotguns until 1968. They are not collected as far as I know. If the gun is solid, we can lengthen the chambers for 2 3/4" shotgun shells and modernize the forcing cones. __________________ Full service gunsmithing and firearm manufacturing shop. Licensed FFL 07/02 Manufacturer. Visit our website!

10-01-2012, 12:34 AM	#15
JBBR Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1	Re: help identify old shotgun Your Shotgun is a Made in France "MAC" and the 70 is for 70 cm which is a 2 3/4 modern shell not the 2 1/2 shell. If it was labled 65, it would have been for a 2 1/2 inch shell.

10-01-2012, 03:45 PM	#16
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: help identify old shotgun FWIW, I don't think that gun is "old"; it appears to be a modern, Post-WWII, utilitarian grade gun, not a commemorative or of any special quality. It is chambered for 7cm (2 3/4") shells; the barrels are of nickel-chrome steel and have current French proof marks. I would consider it a good hunting gun, but not antique or collectible. Jim

10-01-2012, 03:57 PM	#17
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: help identify old shotgun Old post never die, they just keep being answered, done it my self. __________________ RonJames