1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol - The Firearms Forum

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:21 PM

new member trying to post pictures

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:27 PM

another pic

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:30 PM

more i hope

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:31 PM

try again

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:33 PM

maybe

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:47 PM

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 08:55 PM

still trying

t bittle · 11-26-2011, 09:10 PM

as you can see i`am not to good with the computer these guns belong to a friend they belonged to a C S A doctor that used them in the war the colt was made 1862 serial # is639xx the pockrt pistol has bishop on it & london on top of barrell any idea what there worth or when the pocket pistol was made thanks

Buffalochip · 11-27-2011, 06:19 PM

Without legitimate documentation that this was a Confederate-used piece, you have a 3-screw, Model 1860 Army Colt in well used condition. It has the cutouts and notch (bottom of grip strap) for a shoulder stock, but not the necessary 4th screw that acts as a lug. Any engraving on the cylinder appears to be worn off, the trigger guard is bent, screws are buggered, and I see no evidence of an inspector's cartouche. But the good news is that these guns are beginning to spike a bit in value and yours is early war. I'd guess it is worth $900 or so--you might get $1,200 for it if the action is tight. If you could prove Confederate provenance, I'd guess it would be in excess of $3,000--but good luck with that. The Bishop pistol was probably made in the 1855-65 era, has had many repairs (front thimble appears to be a replacement and part of the wood has been replaced and it is missing the ramrod. I'm guessing it is worth $250 or so.

t bittle · 11-27-2011, 07:19 PM

Thanks for the info Buffalochip I been lurking on this great site about 2 years reading about the great guns and the great info the members share with all

thanks to all

Jim K · 11-28-2011, 05:30 PM

I believe that all military contract 1860's had the cut in the backstrap for the stock, though not all had the studs in the frame.

I can find two gun makers named Bishop, a J. Bishop and a William Bishop, both in London at about the right time for that gun. Can you find any proof marks on the barrel, either on the top or the bottom? If there are any, a picture would help.

Jim

Buffalochip · 11-29-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

I believe that all military contract 1860's had the cut in the backstrap for the stock, though not all had the studs in the frame.

Jim

That is correct, the notch in the backstrap and cutout in the receiver readily differentiates the civilian from the military contract guns. I've seen many more military Model 1860s without the stud than with.

Jim K · 11-29-2011, 11:46 AM

Some authorities say the studs were installed only if the pistol was shipped with the stock, but again, there seem to be a lot more pistols with studs than there were stocks. Apparently Colt set up the tooling to make the cuts in the frame and backstrap and it was more trouble to change than to just go ahead and make them all with the cuts.

FWIW, the studs are not necessary for use of the stock and perhaps Colt realized that and simply deleted them, leaving the cuts to be used if/when anyone wanted to put a stock on.

There were a few Model 1851 Navies cut for the stock. I have seen one but have never seen a stock. The cuts are the same but since the Navy grip is shorter an 1860 stock won't fit.

Jim

t bittle · 11-29-2011, 07:39 PM

Jim K it will be a few weeks before I can get more pics, I took pics of proof marks but they were all bad

thanks T Bittle

Auburn Tom · 12-11-2011, 08:29 AM

t bittle,

I own a pistol very similar to your pocket pistol. Mine is a full size pistol, 8.5" barrel, but otherwise looks like yours. "J. Bishop" engraved on lock (percussion cap), and "London" either engraved or stamped on top of octaginal barrel.

My pistol came down through family, who were from Virginia, but there is no "history". The grip has very well etched diamond pattern that is still sharp, indicating little use.

It is smooth bore, about 15mm in diameter.

I posted questions on "The Firing Line" Forum and someone sent me here.

I will post photos soon. As you find out new information, please post here or there, and I will do the same. Thanks.

11-26-2011, 08:21 PM	#1
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol new member trying to post pictures Attached Images -->

11-26-2011, 08:27 PM	#2
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol another pic Attached Images

11-26-2011, 08:30 PM	#3
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol more i hope

11-26-2011, 08:31 PM	#4
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol try again

11-26-2011, 08:33 PM	#5
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol maybe

11-26-2011, 08:47 PM	#6
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol pic

11-26-2011, 08:55 PM	#7
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol still trying Attached Images

11-26-2011, 09:10 PM	#8
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol as you can see i`am not to good with the computer these guns belong to a friend they belonged to a C S A doctor that used them in the war the colt was made 1862 serial # is639xx the pockrt pistol has bishop on it & london on top of barrell any idea what there worth or when the pocket pistol was made thanks

11-27-2011, 06:19 PM	#9
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol Without legitimate documentation that this was a Confederate-used piece, you have a 3-screw, Model 1860 Army Colt in well used condition. It has the cutouts and notch (bottom of grip strap) for a shoulder stock, but not the necessary 4th screw that acts as a lug. Any engraving on the cylinder appears to be worn off, the trigger guard is bent, screws are buggered, and I see no evidence of an inspector's cartouche. But the good news is that these guns are beginning to spike a bit in value and yours is early war. I'd guess it is worth $900 or so--you might get $1,200 for it if the action is tight. If you could prove Confederate provenance, I'd guess it would be in excess of $3,000--but good luck with that. The Bishop pistol was probably made in the 1855-65 era, has had many repairs (front thimble appears to be a replacement and part of the wood has been replaced and it is missing the ramrod. I'm guessing it is worth $250 or so.

11-27-2011, 07:19 PM	#10
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol Thanks for the info Buffalochip I been lurking on this great site about 2 years reading about the great guns and the great info the members share with all thanks to all

11-28-2011, 05:30 PM	#11
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol I believe that all military contract 1860's had the cut in the backstrap for the stock, though not all had the studs in the frame. I can find two gun makers named Bishop, a J. Bishop and a William Bishop, both in London at about the right time for that gun. Can you find any proof marks on the barrel, either on the top or the bottom? If there are any, a picture would help. Jim

11-29-2011, 11:46 AM	#13
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol Some authorities say the studs were installed only if the pistol was shipped with the stock, but again, there seem to be a lot more pistols with studs than there were stocks. Apparently Colt set up the tooling to make the cuts in the frame and backstrap and it was more trouble to change than to just go ahead and make them all with the cuts. FWIW, the studs are not necessary for use of the stock and perhaps Colt realized that and simply deleted them, leaving the cuts to be used if/when anyone wanted to put a stock on. There were a few Model 1851 Navies cut for the stock. I have seen one but have never seen a stock. The cuts are the same but since the Navy grip is shorter an 1860 stock won't fit. Jim

11-29-2011, 07:39 PM	#14
t bittle Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: alabama Posts: 10	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol Jim K it will be a few weeks before I can get more pics, I took pics of proof marks but they were all bad thanks T Bittle

12-11-2011, 08:29 AM	#15
Auburn Tom Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1	Re: 1860 army colt & bishop pocket pistol t bittle, I own a pistol very similar to your pocket pistol. Mine is a full size pistol, 8.5" barrel, but otherwise looks like yours. "J. Bishop" engraved on lock (percussion cap), and "London" either engraved or stamped on top of octaginal barrel. My pistol came down through family, who were from Virginia, but there is no "history". The grip has very well etched diamond pattern that is still sharp, indicating little use. It is smooth bore, about 15mm in diameter. I posted questions on "The Firing Line" Forum and someone sent me here. I will post photos soon. As you find out new information, please post here or there, and I will do the same. Thanks.