There Goes the Military - The Firearms Forum

dons2346 · 12-26-2011, 10:14 AM

I wonder if they will have to match the uniform.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/fea...o-wear-hijabs/

flintlock · 12-26-2011, 10:48 AM

Can we do anything else to accomadate the Muslims in America? Maybe just declare sharia law in place of our legal system? I am in no way saying that Muslims can't be upstanding citizens. I know and have worked with several fine people of that faith, and each of them were proud to be American citizens. I just get tired of the groups like CAIR that are more interested in changing our way of life to better suit their beliefs.

carver · 12-26-2011, 11:35 AM

How can a muslim be an upstanding citizen when their law, sharia law, supersedes the constitution? Naturalized Citizen in general, basic requirements for naturalization are that the applicant hold a legal status as a full-time resident for a minimum period of time and that the applicant promise to obey and uphold that country's laws, to which an oath or pledge of allegiance is sometimes added.

Double D · 12-26-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

How can a muslim be an upstanding citizen when their law, sharia law, supersedes the constitution? Naturalized Citizen in general, basic requirements for naturalization are that the applicant hold a legal status as a full-time resident for a minimum period of time and that the applicant promise to obey and uphold that country's laws, to which an oath or pledge of allegiance is sometimes added.

Yea, that.

HunterAlpha1 · 12-26-2011, 08:00 PM

will homosexuals be allowed to wear pink or rainbow uniforms? will nudists be allowed to go al naturale? will masochists be allowed to wear bondage and gimp suits?

jack404 · 12-26-2011, 08:10 PM

this will be standard text then i suppose ??

http://azelin.files.wordpress.com/20...ve-leaders.pdf

gdmoody · 12-26-2011, 08:31 PM

Will those white towels make good targets?

Back in the early 80s there was a Warrant Officer at Fort Bragg, NC, that wore his turban every day while in uniform. I do not know what his religion was but it must have been muslim.

jack404 · 12-26-2011, 08:43 PM

you've had a couple Sikh folks at bragg ... they also wear turbans

armedandsafe · 12-26-2011, 08:49 PM

Beat me to it, Jack.

Belgium had a chopper pilot who used to visit us in Etain about once a month, dropping off and picking up choppers for and after we'd do the comm/nav retrofit. He had to take off his turban to fit into the H13s.

Pops

flintlock · 12-27-2011, 07:04 AM

Let me back up here a minute and say that the Muslims I worked with were good citizens. These guys had left their countries to get out from under the radical elements, one from Afghanistan, when the Russians were there, and the others from Iran, when the idots took power. They were all naturalized citizens of America, and they were happy to be here. Carver, I see your point about some Muslims believing that sharia law takes precidence over every thing else including our constitution, but these guys were not overtly religious like that. Maybe the muslim version of a lapsed Catholic or something. So while you are probably right in a general way about how good a citizen a muslim could be, I'll stand by what I said about the guys I knew.

jack404 · 12-27-2011, 07:30 AM

Flintlock, when push comes to shove the folks you speak of will be likke those in the former soviet republic of Chechnya , when the jihadi's decided to take over they raided a few stores , called all the faithfull to the mosques and asked for volenteer's to be mujahid's or to fight for jihad , those who did not agree where moved outside to "keep the plans secret" then machine gunned , just like that movie the great escape , a couple BMP's opened up with them high rate of fire MG's they have .. theres video of it around on live leak .. similar thing happened in ossetia and in the Phillipines with the islamists there ,

become hard core or die ..

my how their numbers swell ....

when your dealing with a totalitarian ideology such as islam there is no in between's , middle of the road is just something to be run over ..

islam makes the nazi's look like amateur's that way, nazi's had some flex in them

islam as a doctrine does not . your obliged to act for jihad , its one of the single act crimes of apostasy..

to not enact or enjoin on jihad when called up is a death sentence ..

to quote Churchill

Quote:

"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

dons2346 · 12-27-2011, 10:14 AM

Can you imagine a Marine in full dress wearing a turban guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?

cpttango30 · 12-27-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dons2346

Can you imagine a Marine in full dress wearing a turban guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?

Please do not speak anymore you are making yourself look bad.

If you knew anything at all you would know that the US ARMY guards the Tomb of the Unknown. How hard is it really?

http://www.tombguard.org/general.html

http://www.army.mil/info/organizatio...ecplt/tomb.htm

Guards at the Tomb of the Unknowns are US ARMY SOLDIERS who have been high trained and know every detail about the tomb. They do not wear Class A (GREEN DRESS UNIFORM) they wear US ARMY DRESS BLUES.

https://www.google.com/search?q=army...w=1600&bih=753

Please GET IT RIGHT for RESPECT to the Guards and service men/ women in the Tomb.

Bobitis · 12-28-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpttango30

Please do not speak anymore you are making yourself look bad.

If you knew anything at all you would know that the US ARMY guards the Tomb of the Unknown. How hard is it really?

http://www.tombguard.org/general.html

http://www.army.mil/info/organizatio...ecplt/tomb.htm

Guards at the Tomb of the Unknowns are US ARMY SOLDIERS who have been high trained and know every detail about the tomb. They do not wear Class A (GREEN DRESS UNIFORM) they wear US ARMY DRESS BLUES.

https://www.google.com/search?q=army...w=1600&bih=753

Please GET IT RIGHT for RESPECT to the Guards and service men/ women in the Tomb.

Where did that come from?

Step away from the keyboard, turn the caps lock off, and chill out.

No one here is disrespecting those in the Tomb. Quit making stuff up. If ya wanna create battles within our armed forces, ya came to the wrong place.

If ya can't be civil, and just a tad understanding, go someplace else.

I never paid any attention to 'Whom' guards the Tomb. All I care about is someone does. Am I next on your list?

cpttango30 · 12-28-2011, 07:08 PM

Sorry it just irritates me when people get this wrong when it is so blatantly obvious who guards the tomb.

Sorry I do find it disrespectful to all involved to call them Marines. Just as I would find it disrespectful to call Embassy guards soldiers when they are ALWAYS marines.

Bobitis · 12-28-2011, 08:03 PM

It may be 'blatant' to you, but to some of us it's not. None of us know everything.

Cut us some slack.

I worked with a guy that was in the Army in Nam. He was shot down 3 times in choppers. Yes, THREE times. He even made the cover of Time magazine for all the VC ears he had collected. He always referred to the Marines as 'Jar Heads' and chuckled. I always thought that was odd.

I support all of our branches. While I can appreciate the competition between our many branches, I don't understand the venom involved.

No, I've never served. Maybe that's my problem? I don't have the instilled hatred in any choice of branch, so maybe I should bite my tongue.

I thank all of them equally. I don't see where any one of them has bragging rights on any of the others.

BTT...

Sikhs have long fought with the Brits and Americans. They are noble of belief and are ferrocious fighters. The towel on the head does not make the man.

jack404 · 12-28-2011, 08:25 PM

i think its the dress Blues, i get them mixed up on parade days here

this shot Air forces at front army behind and navy ( and submariners) at rear ( your folks currently based or in port here last Anzac Day)

and below that this guy retired here ... now if i did not know the differences ( or was not wearing my glasses) i'd screw that up too

dons2346 · 12-28-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpttango30

Please do not speak anymore you are making yourself look bad.

If you knew anything at all you would know that the US ARMY guards the Tomb of the Unknown. How hard is it really?

http://www.tombguard.org/general.html

http://www.army.mil/info/organizatio...ecplt/tomb.htm

Guards at the Tomb of the Unknowns are US ARMY SOLDIERS who have been high trained and know every detail about the tomb. They do not wear Class A (GREEN DRESS UNIFORM) they wear US ARMY DRESS BLUES.

https://www.google.com/search?q=army...w=1600&bih=753

Please GET IT RIGHT for RESPECT to the Guards and service men/ women in the Tomb.

A thousand pardons.

So now let me rephrase. How would it look with the US ARMY guarding the tomb wearing a turban?

Alpo · 12-28-2011, 09:56 PM

I'm fairly certain that Sikhs can join the Marines. I'm also fairly certain that wearing a beard is part of their religion. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and suggest that if a Sikh is in the Marine Corps, he cannot wear a beard.

I don't see where that has anything to do with his freedom of religion. He voluntarily gave that up when he joined the Marines.

This girl joined Rot-see? She gave up the right to wear that thingy when she joined, 'cause Rot-see requires you to dress a certain way. When I was in high school, in the early 70s, boys had long hair. Not in Rot-see. They gave up the right to have long hair when they joined. This ain't no different. She don't wanna take that thing off? Drop out.

jim brady · 12-28-2011, 10:22 PM

Amen, Alpo. When someone swears the oath to preserve and protect the Constitution, there is no "except......" offered or accepted. My last tour of Active Duty, back in the early 1980s, there was an Arabic Muslim who joined the Army Nation Guard unit that I was assigned to. This guy showed nothing but absolute loathing for the soldiers who served in the Unit. No soldier should be authorized to wear ANY visable article other than the official uniform.

I wore Army Green for many years, but I gotta admit - the Marine Corps Dress Blues are the classiest dress uniforms ever adopted. The Army always seemed to be searching for a better uniform. Still haven't found it. Bob, I call 'em "jarheads," too - but only with a smile on my face and respect in my heart.

jack404 · 12-28-2011, 10:24 PM

i agree with that Alpo you join the military , it dont join you and your weird ways

its the military way or the highway ..

armoredman · 12-28-2011, 10:32 PM

I was in JROTC 27 years ago, and there is no way the Senior Army Instructors would have put up with that at all. You wore the uniform, you wore it completely, correctly, and proudly, or you were out. All three were decorated veterans of Vietnam, retired SFC, MSGT and LTC. Anyone attempting to make the uniform into a joke would have been dealt with, by them officially, and the Corps Of Cadets...unofficially.
I guess those days are gone.

12-26-2011, 10:14 AM	#1
dons2346 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Move between WA and points south Contributor Posts: 1,415	There Goes the Military I wonder if they will have to match the uniform. http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/fea...o-wear-hijabs/ __________________ "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 1785 -->

12-26-2011, 10:48 AM	#2
flintlock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Upstate NY Contributor Posts: 896	Re: There Goes the Military Can we do anything else to accomadate the Muslims in America? Maybe just declare sharia law in place of our legal system? I am in no way saying that Muslims can't be upstanding citizens. I know and have worked with several fine people of that faith, and each of them were proud to be American citizens. I just get tired of the groups like CAIR that are more interested in changing our way of life to better suit their beliefs.

12-26-2011, 11:35 AM	#3
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,227	Re: There Goes the Military How can a muslim be an upstanding citizen when their law, sharia law, supersedes the constitution? Naturalized Citizen in general, basic requirements for naturalization are that the applicant hold a legal status as a full-time resident for a minimum period of time *and that the applicant promise to obey and uphold that country's laws*, to which an oath or pledge of allegiance is sometimes added. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

12-26-2011, 08:00 PM	#5
HunterAlpha1 Former Guest Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Yorktown, VA Posts: 1,049	Re: There Goes the Military will homosexuals be allowed to wear pink or rainbow uniforms? will nudists be allowed to go al naturale? will masochists be allowed to wear bondage and gimp suits? Last edited by CampingJosh; 12-26-2011 at 08:08 PM.. Reason: Wording...

12-26-2011, 08:10 PM	#6
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: There Goes the Military this will be standard text then i suppose ?? http://azelin.files.wordpress.com/20...ve-leaders.pdf

12-26-2011, 08:31 PM	#7
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,310	Re: There Goes the Military Will those white towels make good targets? Back in the early 80s there was a Warrant Officer at Fort Bragg, NC, that wore his turban every day while in uniform. I do not know what his religion was but it must have been muslim. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

12-26-2011, 08:43 PM	#8
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: There Goes the Military you've had a couple Sikh folks at bragg ... they also wear turbans

12-26-2011, 08:49 PM	#9
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: There Goes the Military Beat me to it, Jack. Belgium had a chopper pilot who used to visit us in Etain about once a month, dropping off and picking up choppers for and after we'd do the comm/nav retrofit. He had to take off his turban to fit into the H13s. Pops

12-27-2011, 07:04 AM	#10
flintlock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Upstate NY Contributor Posts: 896	Re: There Goes the Military Let me back up here a minute and say that the Muslims I worked with were good citizens. These guys had left their countries to get out from under the radical elements, one from Afghanistan, when the Russians were there, and the others from Iran, when the idots took power. They were all naturalized citizens of America, and they were happy to be here. Carver, I see your point about some Muslims believing that sharia law takes precidence over every thing else including our constitution, but these guys were not overtly religious like that. Maybe the muslim version of a lapsed Catholic or something. So while you are probably right in a general way about how good a citizen a muslim could be, I'll stand by what I said about the guys I knew.

12-27-2011, 10:14 AM	#12
dons2346 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Move between WA and points south Contributor Posts: 1,415	Re: There Goes the Military Can you imagine a Marine in full dress wearing a turban guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier? __________________ "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 1785

12-28-2011, 07:08 PM	#15
cpttango30 Former Guest Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stafford, VA Contributor Posts: 3,071	Re: There Goes the Military Sorry it just irritates me when people get this wrong when it is so blatantly obvious who guards the tomb. Sorry I do find it disrespectful to all involved to call them Marines. Just as I would find it disrespectful to call Embassy guards soldiers when they are ALWAYS marines.

12-28-2011, 08:03 PM	#16
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: There Goes the Military It may be 'blatant' to you, but to some of us it's not. None of us know everything. Cut us some slack. I worked with a guy that was in the Army in Nam. He was shot down 3 times in choppers. Yes, THREE times. He even made the cover of Time magazine for all the VC ears he had collected. He always referred to the Marines as 'Jar Heads' and chuckled. I always thought that was odd. I support all of our branches. While I can appreciate the competition between our many branches, I don't understand the venom involved. No, I've never served. Maybe that's my problem? I don't have the instilled hatred in any choice of branch, so maybe I should bite my tongue. I thank all of them equally. I don't see where any one of them has bragging rights on any of the others. BTT... Sikhs have long fought with the Brits and Americans. They are noble of belief and are ferrocious fighters. The towel on the head does not make the man. __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

12-28-2011, 08:25 PM	#17
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: There Goes the Military i think its the dress Blues, i get them mixed up on parade days here this shot Air forces at front army behind and navy ( and submariners) at rear ( your folks currently based or in port here last Anzac Day) and below that this guy retired here ... now if i did not know the differences ( or was not wearing my glasses) i'd screw that up too Attached Images Last edited by jack404; 12-28-2011 at 08:27 PM..

12-28-2011, 09:56 PM	#19
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,650	Re: There Goes the Military I'm fairly certain that Sikhs can join the Marines. I'm also fairly certain that wearing a beard is part of their religion. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and suggest that if a Sikh is in the Marine Corps, he cannot wear a beard. I don't see where that has anything to do with his freedom of religion. He voluntarily gave that up when he joined the Marines. This girl joined Rot-see? She gave up the right to wear that thingy when she joined, 'cause Rot-see requires you to dress a certain way. When I was in high school, in the early 70s, boys had long hair. Not in Rot-see. They gave up the right to have long hair when they joined. This ain't no different. She don't wanna take that thing off? Drop out. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

12-28-2011, 10:22 PM	#20
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,072	Re: There Goes the Military Amen, Alpo. When someone swears the oath to preserve and protect the Constitution, there is no "except......" offered or accepted. My last tour of Active Duty, back in the early 1980s, there was an Arabic Muslim who joined the Army Nation Guard unit that I was assigned to. This guy showed nothing but absolute loathing for the soldiers who served in the Unit. No soldier should be authorized to wear ANY visable article other than the official uniform. I wore Army Green for many years, but I gotta admit - the Marine Corps Dress Blues are the classiest dress uniforms ever adopted. The Army always seemed to be searching for a better uniform. Still haven't found it. Bob, I call 'em "jarheads," too - but only with a smile on my face and respect in my heart.

12-28-2011, 10:24 PM	#21
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: There Goes the Military i agree with that Alpo you join the military , it dont join you and your weird ways its the military way or the highway ..

12-28-2011, 10:32 PM	#22
armoredman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Proud to be in Arizona Posts: 1,367	Re: There Goes the Military I was in JROTC 27 years ago, and there is no way the Senior Army Instructors would have put up with that at all. You wore the uniform, you wore it completely, correctly, and proudly, or you were out. All three were decorated veterans of Vietnam, retired SFC, MSGT and LTC. Anyone attempting to make the uniform into a joke would have been dealt with, by them officially, and the Corps Of Cadets...unofficially. I guess those days are gone.