any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

jack404 · 03-05-2010, 01:54 AM

Dunno about Mr bonds toys i aint that much of a movie expert, or watcher

but the buzzard has been played with here for a while now and theres a couple in the US apparently but the twin tailed version, thats all i can tell ya

did not understand the blackpowder commenbt went looking in the BP section and could not see what you where refering too, and missed the bit where the mods need thick skins

oh well , i aint clever that way anyway

off shopping for timber and steel in the morning for this shed

2.8 tons of steel plate .. sheesh but the thing will be bomb proof when finished , certainly theft proof, half of it will be a big steel lined box/vault,
bloody anti gun nazi rules.. stoopid , stoopid , stoopid oh well i'm complying

yas massa no massa 3 bags full massa

cheers

jack

Maximilian II · 03-05-2010, 02:38 AM

A James Bond film (Roger Moore era) featured a tiny jet of that type. Late 1970's I think. Maybe early '80's.

The ref to the BP section is from my earliest days on this forum. Might be buried deep. I have a love for the old firearms, wheel-lock, snaphaunce, flintlock, even cannon-lock. Google The Rifle Shoppe.com. They have kits. The completed arms cost both legs and an arm, but the kits are pretty reasonable for a handy fellow.

Lee C. · 03-05-2010, 03:39 AM

Great looking .50 BMG you put to gether Jack. I hope the gun i'm working on right now will shot that good when i'm done with it. Good luck with your shop and plain.

jack404 · 03-05-2010, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximilian II

They have kits. The completed arms cost both legs and an arm, but the kits are pretty reasonable for a handy fellow.

REASONABLE!!!!!

man you must be rich!!!

No wonder i can sell what i think is a expencive item to cabella's if thats what these guys charge

heck i may get into kits , but seeing what Bo Bo just signed it may get awful hard to send anything gun related to the US soon ( like next week)

cheers eh

jack404 · 03-05-2010, 06:29 AM

Lee just take your time mate triple check everything and go with your gut

and i do look forward to see yours when done eh ( range report too !)

cheers

jack

Maximilian II · 03-05-2010, 08:47 PM

Just re-checked those prices and you're right Jack. Somehow I don't remember them being so costly.
Definitely going to be working a wheellock into my schedule, soon as I get the skills and shop time.

Marlin T · 03-06-2010, 12:15 AM

What about something like this Jack

jack404 · 03-06-2010, 03:23 AM

Marlin , Wiseacres said about that earlier eh,, good idea but how would it go with a deer carcass attached ?? also the coastal winds here are extreame, but i do know some folks who fly them here not that far away at stanwell park , i'm going up that way to pick up some alsynite tomorrow so i'll drop by the hang gliders coffee shop there and ask i did read they are hard to get altitude with but comeing back down with them should be no problem

a blast actually sorta like a oversized T - 10 acrobatic rig

but also what i was told was a good while ago and only in general conversation

but another thing is they are like $9000 here (AUD) the afordaplave twin seat version i did a rough costing today at around $3000 with heat shrink dacron wing material or $2000 with cloth and dope (plus motor and instraments) and i dunno if i could get a permit to carry a gun on one either ( if its counted as a vehicle i have to be able to lock it, the plane i can add a steel tube to the frame , if this is a vehicle i'm screwed)

got the steel footings cement and main beams for the shed today so i can start on that this week,

got the flooring and roofing materials sorted too but want some clear to allow light in so i'll get that tomorrow

things are moving..

cheers all eh

jack

ysacres · 03-06-2010, 08:35 AM

Close Marlin T, Only with a two seater frame 1 for Jack and 1 for the rue

Star flex two seater powered parachute. paraski.com

easyfilght.com

powrachute.com

Trouble 45-70 · 03-06-2010, 09:19 AM

The Buzzard looks neat. Must be a real thrill to fly. Not a lot of surface area for the wings judging by the photo. Could be a pain to land safely if you have engine problems and from the cockpit position you get to be the first one to the scene of the accident.

petesusn · 03-06-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximilian II

Is that Buzzard the same plane seen in a James Bond movie? Looks like it...

Yes. It's a BD-5J developed by the Bede Aircraft Corp. as a homebuilt in the early 1970's.

Marlin T · 03-06-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysacres

Close Marlin T, Only with a two seater frame 1 for Jack and 1 for the rue

Well hold a sec here, that just aint right

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack404

good idea but how would it go with a deer carcass attached ??

Here is what you do Jack. You get one of those flying machines, the one the best suits your liking even if that means it won't carry more that you and your firearm.

Then you launch that thing and go hunting!!!! Call in your kill to the ground man and have him pick it up for ya.

jack404 · 03-06-2010, 10:40 PM

Ok back from Stanwell park and a lot of flyers ( hang gliders) up today including a 2 seat paramotor from france, it was bought by the flight school folks for just over $16,000 AUD and i'm told they are now just under $20K to buy they will take just undr 500 lb weight but need at least 2 other people to help get launched and a largish clear area ( wider than the powerline road or cliff face near where i'll be ) to launch safely

also they are classified as a recreational vehicle here so need to have a secure storage fitted to the spec to carry rifles even for only a few minutes and that would add another hassle to it all..

so affordaplane wins again i've a lovely bit of plastic/kevlar and steel tube ( its high pressure natural gas main liner) that will pass spec here and it weighs only 18 lbs that i can mount on the frame add a couple pounds for a Master lock and steel cleats and some stainless bolts and rivets and it should be fine

ok idea i have is when i get a dear i alway bleed em and clean the guts/innards out anyway on the spot ( dig a hole put em in and cover why i have a trenching tool on the belt) drag the rest to where the plane is and if too big remove whats needed ( head /neck ) and load onto the seat and fly home

if needed, split the carcass ( i have a carbon fibre axe thats great for this) and do two trips

a lot of what i shoot will be ferals that i'll leave where i shoot em ( goats wild dogs feral cats etc) maybe grab skins

i eat about 1 roo a month and 1 deer over 2 months ( or did last time i lived from hunting but been citified the last 18 months ) so i'll only take a dozen roo's or so a year but deer i'll drop and photo whenever i get a shot as they are now on the feral list and i can claim a shooters bounty ( $15 .. whoopie) per head from national parks and $10 per goat

no pigs this way yet... bi\ut a few foxes ( winters coming so the pelts will be better soon)

most trips will only be skins on the return, maybe grab a bunny or two if they show but only once a month or so will i have a carcass of size

petesusn i know they paid licence fee's to someone just did not know who cheers for that eh

cheers

jack

Maximilian II · 03-07-2010, 04:31 PM

This looks fun:

http://www.martinjetpack.com/video-gallery.aspx

jack404 · 03-07-2010, 05:57 PM

cool!!!!

but who's house do i have to steal and sell to get one ??

maybe 3-4 houses??

i'll stick with my 5 ounces of gold budget i think
and be greatful that the price is so far up that this is possible ..

jack404 · 12-20-2011, 09:18 AM

hey when i first started this that 5 oz of gold was just shy of $6000 before fee's

$7500 i just saw

OK, i've been doing a few parts and such , i got a Ural 1986 650 cc motor( russian motorcycle)
injector kits on the way..

i'm cutting Aluminium ( 6061 T6) plate for brackets and angles and braces and airfoils

i've a floor full of parts and now have finished the 2nd workshop i can start assembling a few , its all basic flat to 3D time , once all the brackets are done i'll link them with the frame struts and spar's, wings as well, i've ash ( timber) to be wrapped with CF cloth and resined then baked .. , full metal frame out half way on each wing , CF wrapped ash the other 1/2 ( sheet Alu. end caps )

and i've a great fabric for the wings.. pic's as soon i have more than bit's in milk crates and boxes

I hope it'll end up a 2 seat affordaplane within about 10 months and cost $4200 ( i've paid for everything and got most of it )

saves highjacking Terry's thread to update folks

flyingtiger85 · 12-20-2011, 03:02 PM

If you plan to take off from that valley and fly directly over that ridge and land up on top.Make sure you approach the ridge line at a 45 degree angle so you can escape from a down draft by turning away from it.Never fly directly at a ridge,esspecially in an under powered ultra-lite aircraft.Most private planes are under powered also.Winds tend to come over a ridge and flow down a valley a lift on the other side.If winds are blowing from the top of that ridgeline toward that road that could be a danger.I would have to be certified in high mountain flying every year as a search pilot.The mountains a covered with airplanes in Nevada,California and Colorado.I like that picture of the yellow model you showed us.Sounds like fun.I hope you don't mind me pointing out a safety tip.Happy flying!!!!

The Duke · 12-29-2011, 08:45 AM

A friend of mine trailered his to our deer camp quite a few years back...We used the thing for fun and 'scouting' the area...Sitting around the camp fire one evening we discussed mounting our M-16's (for which we had the .22LR conversion kits) on the thing to strafe and dog fight the buzzards attracted to the gut pile...Now that would have been fun, if not all sorts of illegal...

A few zip ties and duct tape and we would have had a red-neck fighter!!

Never quite got around to that idea...seems a divorce cost him the ultra-light and prob saved quite a few buzzards and coyotes...

jack404 · 12-29-2011, 04:42 PM

my first one i never took a rifle with me despite seeing lots to shoot at .. i shoot out of choppers when on cull's but someone else is flying the thing when i do

Airdale · 12-29-2011, 05:40 PM

Jack,

Ever considered a Trike. I took a demonstration ride in one and was impressed.
Probably the easiest to fly and safer than most (glide to a landing). Most use a Rotax but if you could adapt the engine you mentioned you could probably get the cost down.

jack404 · 12-29-2011, 06:00 PM

affordaplane is a trike just 2 forward 1 back in the conventional sense

the trikes ( 1 forward) have no tail and the 1 forward set up suites that better

i like a tail .. for a few reasons

but mainly so i know when i have enough air speed up to do ultra short take off's from cliff tops

you cant guage that with a regular trike with no tail..

sounds crazy but its not really ..

raven818 · 12-29-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

good weight load ( me, 2 rifles, some basic camping stuff, fuel and enough for left 80- 100lb's of carcass or a smallish passenger )

Raven818 = willing to loose weight.

Quote:

but mainly so i know when i have enough air speed up to do ultra short take off's from cliff tops

On second thought

jack404 · 12-29-2011, 06:45 PM

stall speed on the affordaplane is also only 22 MPH and i'm modding it trying to get 18 MPH stall speed so flight speed need only be 25 MPH to have good control

take off on a high enough cliff at say 15-20 MPH and you have enough air flow in 2 seconds to sustain normal flight from there on

the storch ( stork in german) was a trainer , it had a stall speed of 22 MPH too

folks used to hang onto the wings and drop off at 10 feet off the ground and hit the ground running , literally..

the trike style above needs a higher take off speed ( 35-45 MPH on average) and have stall speeds of 30 MPH and up

it'll be fine as long as i dont overload it ...

jack404 · 12-29-2011, 06:45 PM

stall speed on the affordaplane is also only 22 MPH and i'm modding it trying to get 18 MPH stall speed so flight speed need only be 25 MPH to have good control

take off on a high enough cliff at say 15-20 MPH and you have enough air flow in 2 seconds to sustain normal flight from there on

the storch ( stork in german) was a trainer , it had a stall speed of 22 MPH too

folks used to hang onto the wings and drop off at 10 feet off the ground and hit the ground running , literally..

the trike style above needs a higher take off speed ( 35-45 MPH on average) and have stall speeds of 30 MPH and up

it'll be fine as long as i dont overload it ...

03-05-2010, 01:54 AM	#26
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Dunno about Mr bonds toys i aint that much of a movie expert, or watcher but the buzzard has been played with here for a while now and theres a couple in the US apparently but the twin tailed version, thats all i can tell ya did not understand the blackpowder commenbt went looking in the BP section and could not see what you where refering too, and missed the bit where the mods need thick skins oh well , i aint clever that way anyway off shopping for timber and steel in the morning for this shed 2.8 tons of steel plate .. sheesh but the thing will be bomb proof when finished , certainly theft proof, half of it will be a big steel lined box/vault, bloody anti gun nazi rules.. stoopid , stoopid , stoopid oh well i'm complying yas massa no massa 3 bags full massa cheers jack

03-05-2010, 02:38 AM	#27
Maximilian II Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northwest GA Posts: 1,381	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? A James Bond film (Roger Moore era) featured a tiny jet of that type. Late 1970's I think. Maybe early '80's. The ref to the BP section is from my earliest days on this forum. Might be buried deep. I have a love for the old firearms, wheel-lock, snaphaunce, flintlock, even cannon-lock. Google The Rifle Shoppe.com. They have kits. The completed arms cost both legs and an arm, but the kits are pretty reasonable for a handy fellow. __________________ Karma is just justice, without the satisfaction. And I don't believe in justice. -Joe Sarno, bagman.

03-05-2010, 03:39 AM	#28
Lee C. V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Antigo Wi. Posts: 255	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Great looking .50 BMG you put to gether Jack. I hope the gun i'm working on right now will shot that good when i'm done with it. Good luck with your shop and plain.

03-05-2010, 06:29 AM	#30
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Lee just take your time mate triple check everything and go with your gut and i do look forward to see yours when done eh ( range report too !) cheers jack

03-05-2010, 08:47 PM	#31
Maximilian II Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northwest GA Posts: 1,381	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Just re-checked those prices and you're right Jack. Somehow I don't remember them being so costly. Definitely going to be working a wheellock into my schedule, soon as I get the skills and shop time. __________________ Karma is just justice, without the satisfaction. And I don't believe in justice. -Joe Sarno, bagman.

03-06-2010, 12:15 AM	#32
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? What about something like this Jack __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<< Last edited by Marlin T; 03-06-2010 at 12:17 AM..

03-06-2010, 03:23 AM	#33
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Marlin , Wiseacres said about that earlier eh,, good idea but how would it go with a deer carcass attached ?? also the coastal winds here are extreame, but i do know some folks who fly them here not that far away at stanwell park , i'm going up that way to pick up some alsynite tomorrow so i'll drop by the hang gliders coffee shop there and ask i did read they are hard to get altitude with but comeing back down with them should be no problem a blast actually sorta like a oversized T - 10 acrobatic rig but also what i was told was a good while ago and only in general conversation but another thing is they are like $9000 here (AUD) the afordaplave twin seat version i did a rough costing today at around $3000 with heat shrink dacron wing material or $2000 with cloth and dope (plus motor and instraments) and i dunno if i could get a permit to carry a gun on one either ( if its counted as a vehicle i have to be able to lock it, the plane i can add a steel tube to the frame , if this is a vehicle i'm screwed) got the steel footings cement and main beams for the shed today so i can start on that this week, got the flooring and roofing materials sorted too but want some clear to allow light in so i'll get that tomorrow things are moving.. cheers all eh jack

03-06-2010, 08:35 AM	#34
ysacres Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wazzu WA Posts: 2,413	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Close Marlin T, Only with a two seater frame 1 for Jack and 1 for the rue Star flex two seater powered parachute. paraski.com easyfilght.com powrachute.com Attached Images __________________ Last edited by ysacres; 03-06-2010 at 09:27 AM..

03-06-2010, 09:19 AM	#35
Trouble 45-70 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NE Ar. W. of Black River Contributor Posts: 2,703	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? The Buzzard looks neat. Must be a real thrill to fly. Not a lot of surface area for the wings judging by the photo. Could be a pain to land safely if you have engine problems and from the cockpit position you get to be the first one to the scene of the accident. __________________ Psalm 12 verse 8: The wicked walk on every side when the vilest men are exalted.

03-06-2010, 10:40 PM	#38
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Ok back from Stanwell park and a lot of flyers ( hang gliders) up today including a 2 seat paramotor from france, it was bought by the flight school folks for just over $16,000 AUD and i'm told they are now just under $20K to buy they will take just undr 500 lb weight but need at least 2 other people to help get launched and a largish clear area ( wider than the powerline road or cliff face near where i'll be ) to launch safely also they are classified as a recreational vehicle here so need to have a secure storage fitted to the spec to carry rifles even for only a few minutes and that would add another hassle to it all.. so affordaplane wins again i've a lovely bit of plastic/kevlar and steel tube ( its high pressure natural gas main liner) that will pass spec here and it weighs only 18 lbs that i can mount on the frame add a couple pounds for a Master lock and steel cleats and some stainless bolts and rivets and it should be fine ok idea i have is when i get a dear i alway bleed em and clean the guts/innards out anyway on the spot ( dig a hole put em in and cover why i have a trenching tool on the belt) drag the rest to where the plane is and if too big remove whats needed ( head /neck ) and load onto the seat and fly home if needed, split the carcass ( i have a carbon fibre axe thats great for this) and do two trips a lot of what i shoot will be ferals that i'll leave where i shoot em ( goats wild dogs feral cats etc) maybe grab skins i eat about 1 roo a month and 1 deer over 2 months ( or did last time i lived from hunting but been citified the last 18 months ) so i'll only take a dozen roo's or so a year but deer i'll drop and photo whenever i get a shot as they are now on the feral list and i can claim a shooters bounty ( $15 .. whoopie) per head from national parks and $10 per goat no pigs this way yet... bi\ut a few foxes ( winters coming so the pelts will be better soon) most trips will only be skins on the return, maybe grab a bunny or two if they show but only once a month or so will i have a carcass of size petesusn i know they paid licence fee's to someone just did not know who cheers for that eh cheers jack Last edited by jack404; 03-06-2010 at 10:50 PM..

03-07-2010, 04:31 PM	#39
Maximilian II Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northwest GA Posts: 1,381	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? This looks fun: http://www.martinjetpack.com/video-gallery.aspx __________________ Karma is just justice, without the satisfaction. And I don't believe in justice. -Joe Sarno, bagman.

03-07-2010, 05:57 PM	#40
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? cool!!!! but who's house do i have to steal and sell to get one ?? maybe 3-4 houses?? i'll stick with my 5 ounces of gold budget i think and be greatful that the price is so far up that this is possible ..

12-20-2011, 09:18 AM	#41
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. hey when i first started this that 5 oz of gold was just shy of $6000 before fee's $7500 i just saw OK, i've been doing a few parts and such , i got a Ural 1986 650 cc motor( russian motorcycle) injector kits on the way.. i'm cutting Aluminium ( 6061 T6) plate for brackets and angles and braces and airfoils i've a floor full of parts and now have finished the 2nd workshop i can start assembling a few , its all basic flat to 3D time , once all the brackets are done i'll link them with the frame struts and spar's, wings as well, i've ash ( timber) to be wrapped with CF cloth and resined then baked .. , full metal frame out half way on each wing , CF wrapped ash the other 1/2 ( sheet Alu. end caps ) and i've a great fabric for the wings.. pic's as soon i have more than bit's in milk crates and boxes I hope it'll end up a 2 seat affordaplane within about 10 months and cost $4200 ( i've paid for everything and got most of it ) saves highjacking Terry's thread to update folks Last edited by jack404; 12-20-2011 at 09:21 AM..

12-20-2011, 03:02 PM	#42
flyingtiger85 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Nevada Posts: 744	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. If you plan to take off from that valley and fly directly over that ridge and land up on top.Make sure you approach the ridge line at a 45 degree angle so you can escape from a down draft by turning away from it.Never fly directly at a ridge,esspecially in an under powered ultra-lite aircraft.Most private planes are under powered also.Winds tend to come over a ridge and flow down a valley a lift on the other side.If winds are blowing from the top of that ridgeline toward that road that could be a danger.I would have to be certified in high mountain flying every year as a search pilot.The mountains a covered with airplanes in Nevada,California and Colorado.I like that picture of the yellow model you showed us.Sounds like fun.I hope you don't mind me pointing out a safety tip.Happy flying!!!! Last edited by flyingtiger85; 12-20-2011 at 03:07 PM..

12-29-2011, 08:45 AM	#43
The Duke Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NW Louisiana Posts: 813	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. A friend of mine trailered his to our deer camp quite a few years back...We used the thing for fun and 'scouting' the area...Sitting around the camp fire one evening we discussed mounting our M-16's (for which we had the .22LR conversion kits) on the thing to strafe and dog fight the buzzards attracted to the gut pile...Now that would have been fun, if not all sorts of illegal... A few zip ties and duct tape and we would have had a red-neck fighter!! Never quite got around to that idea...seems a divorce cost him the ultra-light and prob saved quite a few buzzards and coyotes... __________________ Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

12-29-2011, 04:42 PM	#44
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. my first one i never took a rifle with me despite seeing lots to shoot at .. i shoot out of choppers when on cull's but someone else is flying the thing when i do

12-29-2011, 05:40 PM	#45
Airdale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: N.W. Arkansas Contributor Posts: 750	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. Jack, Ever considered a Trike. I took a demonstration ride in one and was impressed. Probably the easiest to fly and safer than most (glide to a landing). Most use a Rotax but if you could adapt the engine you mentioned you could probably get the cost down. Attached Images Last edited by Airdale; 12-29-2011 at 05:45 PM..

12-29-2011, 06:00 PM	#46
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. affordaplane is a trike just 2 forward 1 back in the conventional sense the trikes ( 1 forward) have no tail and the 1 forward set up suites that better i like a tail .. for a few reasons but mainly so i know when i have enough air speed up to do ultra short take off's from cliff tops you cant guage that with a regular trike with no tail.. sounds crazy but its not really ..

12-29-2011, 06:45 PM	#48
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: any Ultralight aircraft experts? Update ;) i've started .. stall speed on the affordaplane is also only 22 MPH and i'm modding it trying to get 18 MPH stall speed so flight speed need only be 25 MPH to have good control take off on a high enough cliff at say 15-20 MPH and you have enough air flow in 2 seconds to sustain normal flight from there on the storch ( stork in german) was a trainer , it had a stall speed of 22 MPH too folks used to hang onto the wings and drop off at 10 feet off the ground and hit the ground running , literally.. the trike style above needs a higher take off speed ( 35-45 MPH on average) and have stall speeds of 30 MPH and up it'll be fine as long as i dont overload it ...