Profiting from Faith

[jack404]

after Terry's reference in his Daily Devotional to how Jesus was crowned three time , i was reminded of a song the small country church i belonged to used to sing.

I posted what i could remember and Terry stated he had never heard that one and so i thought i'd try to find it via google and there is was ..

problem is it was copyrighted by someone in 1988 , i thought how is that possible , and so i called a lady i know who used to also attend that church and sure enough she has the old hymm book

printed by Maranatha Press Melbourne , 1966

i asked how is a copyright possible

seems theres a big movement by a lot of folks mainly lawyers to copyright old hymms and gain income from them , if no copyright is listed then these people lodge a copyright application and end up owning these hymm's

when the first sound recorders made the rounds one here had 4 old hymms recorded , and eventually that cylinder record made its way to the powerhouse museum in Sydney

but in 1992 a legal action was brought against the owner of the donated cylinder to have it destroyed on the order of a US court acting on behalf of the copyright holder

the phonograph recording was made at the Salvation army temple in Richmond Victoria in 1882

but the copyright for the song was not lodged until 1990

the person who now owns the copyright has never stated they wrote the song , in fact they have never stated anything but they own it and demad any previous publication of the hymms be destroyed as a breach of copyright ..

some facts on the owner

she is a lawyer
she has never attended any congregation other then to demand payment for using her copyrighted materials
has made statements that only stupid morons believe in what they cant see or prove ( there is no God)

but yet via the legal system have made millions from Christian publishers and congregations and forced the replacement of millions of hyminals globally

is there nothing we can do ?

or does legal might make right ??

i for one hate this

[Juker]

I'm willing to let God handle it, Jack. What He'll mete out to her at the Great White Throne Judgment sure beats anything we mere humans can do. When she sees where her lack of belief and ill-gotten gains have gotten her, we'll be standing there as witnesses.

[jack404]

you can see hell from heaven ? COOL!

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by jack404

you can see hell from heaven ? COOL!

See the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Luke 16:19-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...30&version=ESV

I am surprised when I open a hymn book, find a chapter from the Book of Psalms in the Bible that has been put into metrical form and had music added, and it has a by-line from some author from within the last 20 years. Maybe surprised is the wrong word. Maybe is better. What right has someone to take God's word and claim credit for it for himself?

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

I am surprised when I open a hymn book, find a chapter from the Book of Psalms in the Bible that has been put into metrical form and had music added, and it has a by-line from some author from within the last 20 years. Maybe surprised is the wrong word. Maybe is better. What right has someone to take God's word and claim credit for it for himself?

I don't have a problem with someone setting words to music and taking credit for writing that music. And I think that the musicians should be paid for what they do.
I don't think they are actually claiming that every bit of that is original to them; that would be ridiculous. But they did make it into that song.

Perspective, I guess.

[Juker]

My understanding/belief is that the Great White Throne Judgment will occur at the end of the 1,000 year Millenial reign of Christ on the recreated earth.

From Revelation 20:

11And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Reckon I always figured that believers would be standing there as witnesses. I could be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.

[BlackEagle]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

I don't have a problem with someone setting words to music and taking credit for writing that music. And I think that the musicians should be paid for what they do.
I don't think they are actually claiming that every bit of that is original to them; that would be ridiculous. But they did make it into that song.

Perspective, I guess.

I agree; My mother did a musical arrangement of one of the Psalms, and I think that arrangement is copyrighted.

The words I was referring to are from the Scottish Metrical Psalter, from a couple of hundred years ago (give or take) , and copied into the hymn book, which in the UK is usually only words without music. The "author" may have composed the music, but had nothing to do with the prositisation. I suppose I'm too academic, and think the book should give him credit for the music, but not the words.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

I agree; My mother did a musical arrangement of one of the Psalms, and I think that arrangement is copyrighted.

The words I was referring to are from the Scottish Metrical Psalter, from a couple of hundred years ago (give or take) , and copied into the hymn book, which in the UK is usually only words without music. The "author" may have composed the music, but had nothing to do with the prositisation. I suppose I'm too academic, and think the book should give him credit for the music, but not the words.

I've seen hymn books here that specify separate copyrights for the music and the lyrics, but it's rare to have it listed separately when one of those is in the public domain.
I'm the kind of nerd who reads the copyright info on nearly every book I pick up...

[jack404]

Juker i always thought that was what he saw , not what we'd all see

but happy to be wrong .. as long as i keep my personal act straight and head "Up"

its all good ,

but the extra show would be a cool bonus

Josh you aint alone there

and ingredients of packet foods , and warranties and even read every word of my mobile phone and sat phone contract

folks think i'm pedantic , maybe i am

but since i started i aint been screwed by any big company via a contract

i dont like what i read , i dont buy it or sign it

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by jack404

Josh you aint alone there

and ingredients of packet foods , and warranties and even read every word of my mobile phone and sat phone contract

folks think i'm pedantic , maybe i am

but since i started i aint been screwed by any big company via a contract

i dont like what i read , i dont buy it or sign it

When I was getting my cell phone for the first time, they wanted me to sign the agreement (contract) on one of those little things where you sign you name after swiping a credit card. The problem was that they hadn't even given me the thing to see.
When I asked to read it before signing that I had read it, the sales guy actually had to call his manager over because he didn't know where to find it. Apparently, they never actually gave that contract to anyone before making people sign it.

[jack404]

i'd beleive that , one lot here wants you to travel to their international head office , sign a non disclosure agreement , in Lahore Pakistan , then have you travel to Belize to read who they share your info with .. and why has Microsoft and Axiom both set up there data centres in belize ?

no right to privacy there eh ...

[Python]

Originally Posted by Juker

Reckon I always figured that believers would be standing there as witnesses. I could be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3.."Do you not know the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels?

[Ace243]

Maybe copyright it yourself, then don't charge for it.

[ampaterry]

I think there is a legal way around this, but the problem probably is the legal costs involved.

With patents, if someone is granted a patent on something but someone else can prove that particular device existed BEFORE the patent was applied for, it falls under "prior art" and the patent is refused. It would seem to me that copywright law would have the same exclusion - -