Newbie's loads for 41 magnum

[NEILT]

So after my lee safety scale had to be taken back I decided to see if the rest of my equipment would work and loaded up a couple different loads. Now it seems info on what to do and what not to do is subjective and some time contradictory (aka at this point i'm confused). But I figured I would put my loads up and see if I couldn't get people to check their load books and pick their brains a bit (besides I can always take them apart, but at least I get experience with the equipment). so here it goes.

I had a big bin of berry's plated bullets (from research keep lower then 1200 fps and treat as lead)

using starline brass and CCI primers, I used the lee scoops since I had to order a new scale (on its way)

according to the card in the scales, I have the two smallest scoops equaling 7.3 grains of unique powder(kind of worried about using two scoops I may take these apart and redo). And the third scoop equals 6.4 grains of unique.

so those are my two loads. Berry's 210grn plated bullets with 7.3 and 6.4 grains of unique. Tell me what you think!

Also I could use some info on crimping (how to look for too much or too little) and why people say not to go below minimum loads. They say not to do it but can't find any info on why?

[LDBennett]

NEILT:

In my experience Lee scoops are notoriously light on powder loads probably to assure the reloader doesn't blow the gun up. While some reload with LEE scoops I think it prudent to wait for the delivery of your new scale.

Loads of some powders below the starting load are said to be detonation prone. That is, the powder rather than just burning as designed, explodes all at once making for a tremendous pressure spike which might be enough to destroy the gun and you. It is controversial but most reloading equipment manufacturers and powder companies usually instruct that you should never reload below the reloading manual's starting load. Now, you can shop manuals and find some have lower starting loads than others but that just means those that are lower actually tested the load and found them not to be dangerous for any reason. Down loading without reloading manual guidance is not safe. Internet loads may not be safe if their source is not a recognized source that uses tested load (with pressure barrels and testing equipment).

LDBennett

[myfriendis410]

Both of those loads (assuming you are actually delivering that amount of powder) are both well within tolerance for the .42 mag. I routinely load 8.0 behind a 210 cast for plinking. It puts the load at around 950 fps.

[NEILT]

Just wanted to let everyone know, I did test. and depending how you use the scoops, your load can be low by as much as 1 grain.

[JLA]

All ive ever used the scoopers for is to load blanks for fun and to weigh charges on the scale.

But as .410 said, if thats the amount of powder you actually charged with, they will be safe.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

NEILT:

In my experience Lee scoops are notoriously light on powder loads probably to assure the reloader doesn't blow the gun up. While some reload with LEE scoops I think it prudent to wait for the delivery of your new scale.

Loads of some powders below the starting load are said to be detonation prone. That is, the powder rather than just burning as designed, explodes all at once making for a tremendous pressure spike which might be enough to destroy the gun and you. It is controversial but most reloading equipment manufacturers and powder companies usually instruct that you should never reload below the reloading manual's starting load. Now, you can shop manuals and find some have lower starting loads than others but that just means those that are lower actually tested the load and found them not to be dangerous for any reason. Down loading without reloading manual guidance is not safe. Internet loads may not be safe if their source is not a recognized source that uses tested load (with pressure barrels and testing equipment).

LDBennett

That is grest advice. Also, I have read and experienced that when you go too low on your reloads they tend to bounce back your direction. Where I rabbit hunt, it is alot of lava rock and if the bullet is moving too slow it comes back real quick and it makes you realize quickly that you need to pick the speed up immensly.

[76Highboy]

To answer your question on crimping. Buy the Lee factory crimping die. It is way easy to use. The directions are a no brainer and it does a nice job. also, you can't buldge the bottom of the brass like the standard crimping die which adds life to your brass.

[NEILT]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

To answer your question on crimping. Buy the Lee factory crimping die. It is way easy to use. The directions are a no brainer and it does a nice job. also, you can't buldge the bottom of the brass like the standard crimping die which adds life to your brass.

Thanks...I've been thinking about that. My dies leave a ridge on the brass when I crimp them.

[JohnTheCalifornian]

Just a note. Those Lee scoops are meant to load by volume, not by weight. Lee includes the conversion so people will be able to use a scoop that is close to their desired weight. In his load books, the case capacity is listed as C.C. his scopps are labeled in C.C. It gives you an idea of how much room the powder charge will take in the case.

[JLA]

Yep, and the idea is to select a load that when dipped will provide a 90% load density. At least thats where the accuracy usually is.

The Lee dippers aint been around for 3+ decades because they didnt work..

[LDBennett]

The dippers use to come in a set of LEE dies didn't they? I have not been reloading for three decades and I have a bunch of them.

No matter, they are NOT the way to do it at all. All reloaders should have some kind of an accurate scale that can be regularly calibrated. Any other approach is very risky and if you do use these dippers don't stand close to me when you shoot your reloads.

The only use in the last 25 years that I have found for these LEE dippers is for my 50BMG (actually CA legal 50DTC). I use them as small spoons to move powder from its temporary storage in a coffee mug to the pan on the digital scale. I use them because they are small and allow a lot of control as I measure the load to the nearest tenth grain (probably a wasted effort as the load is 220 grains of powder and a tenth of a grain of powder is insignificant and loading to the nearest grain is probably more than adequate, but hey that is what I do).

LDBennett

[JLA]

yeah the lee dies sets still come with the most common size dipper for that caliber.

I do agree that it isnt the best way to do it, but I dont agree that its not the way to do it. It will make good and safe plinkin ammo with very little investment.

[Bindernut]

Hmmm....but if using the Lee volume dippers isn't the correct way, what about all of those volumetric powder measures on the market that work on the exact same principle except have a hopper, funnel, and adjustable "dipper" built all into one unit instead of just a plastic dipper? Lyman 55, RCBS, Hornady, Dillon, etc... ?

They all work on the same principle. You adjust the measure (or select the proper size dipper) until you get your desired charge volume.
Preferably you're using a scale to do the final volume to weight calculation instead of the Lee chart though...the volume to weight error comes with the chart and also how consistent a person operates whatever measure they're using.

The only problem I have with the dippers is that a lot of guys use them just with the chart and no scale. Just fine for mid-level loads but if you're near the min or max levels then you need to do some more checking to ensure you stay within those limits.

You need to operate a "normal" powder measure with consistency just like you need to have consistent technique with a dipper. If you're inconsistent with how you fill and level the dipper you'll throw inconsistent charges. If you're inconsistent with how you operate the lever on a Lyman 55, you'll get inconsistent charges. The key is in the operation, not the equipment used.

[myfriendis410]

A powder measure, being a stationary tool, does not vary when the piston is actuated. As a consequence, no powder is being shaken down, no variance in the surface level etc. Using a decent powder measure with pistol powders you can deliver repeatably within + or - .1 grain. A really good rifle measure like a Redding or the Competition measure, will do the same with stick powders in rifle weights.

I saw a video of the Army Marksmanship Unit loading .300 win mag and all they use is a measure.

Lee dippers are NOT as repeatable as the benchtop measures.

[LDBennett]

The LEE dippers have a few problems. There are only so many of them and to get to a specific powder weight may not be possible. They are molded plastic and MAYBE ones marked the same don't really give the same result. You have no idea unless you have a scale to check them. It is not that they can not be used but at a minimum they need to be checked for accuracy with the specific powder being used. The chart LEE provides almost always gives lighter loads than specified. LEE meant them to be used without a scale and that is not a good idea.

I just watched a couple of "Modern Marvels" this last week on TV where they had scenes of the Army and Marine shooting teams support crew reloading for the team. One used a scale. One showed a finished round just coming off the reloading press with a fired primer in the case. The scenes were obviously staged so who knows exactly how they reload? I really don't believe everything I see on TV about guns.

Reloading is not making a cake. Everything involved must have a decent level of precision. Using the LEE dippers without the help of a measuring scale is asking for trouble. But hey, we all get to choose. I choose safe reloading processes... scales are safe.

LDBennett

[Bindernut]

I'm sorry 410, Don't take this as me singling you out.
I'm just defending a tool that works just as well as any other tool...when used properly.

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

A powder measure, being a stationary tool, does not vary when the piston is actuated. As a consequence, no powder is being shaken down, no variance in the surface level etc.

Ahh...but there is a variance.
If you do not operate the handle with the exact same technique every time (speed of movement, how hard/soft you clunk the handle at both ends of the throw, etc) you will throw inconsistent charges. Try it and see.

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

Using a decent powder measure with pistol powders you can deliver repeatably within + or - .1 grain. A really good rifle measure like a Redding or the Competition measure, will do the same with stick powders in rifle weights.

Yes, a good powder measure can throw a consistent charge of +/-0.1gr...as long as the operator technique is consistent. If technique varies, so will the volume of powder thrown.

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

Lee dippers are NOT as repeatable as the benchtop measures.

Yes they are. I can throw charges at +/-0.1gr with both the Lee dippers and my homemade brass/copper dippers. Again, the key is consistent operator technique.




The only drawback to the Lee dipper set is the lack of adjustability/selection that LD mentions. You're stuck with a fixed selection of volume choices to chose from.
That's why I've got a handful of homemade dippers custom-tailored for my favorite "pet loads". This is how I load 90% of my pistol ammo.
My Redding mainly gets used for rifle loads.


And yes, I do agree with LD about the need to use a scale in conjunction with whatever volumetric measure you chose to use.

[myfriendis410]

Binder: I completely agree and should have been more clear; the dippers are harder to be consistent with (for me) and a good stationary bench measure is easier to produce good repeatable results IMO. One must always check their loads with a scale.

I have a set of LEE dippers that I regularly use in conjunction with my scale/dispenser; but only to reduce the fill time of the pan with big charges of stick powder. I understand about being consistent in filling the scoop and striking off the top but it never really worked out for me. My measures all deliver .1 grain accuracy for me.

I knew a benchrest smallbore competition guy from our club and had occasion to see his setup. He used a measure as well to load for his rifle; a .221 fireball if I remember correctly. He was in the 1/10th m.o.a. club: 40 rounds at 100 meters in less than 1/10th inch (his was .085) in competition. I don't remember what powder he was using but he was loading by volume. I prefer to use a scale and I use mine for every round of rifle ammo I load. In the pistols using flake powders, a measure with periodic check-weights is sufficient for me.