Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather - The Firearms Forum

Robert Barth · 01-14-2012, 02:57 PM

My grandfather was one of the early american army regulars to go to the Phillipines and help organize the scouts. In later years he became Provist Marshall of Manila. I have his early 1911, it has no serial number, has the property of U.S. Army stamp, but where the serial number should be, it just has his name stamped. Looking for any info on this weapon or others like it.
Thanks
R. Barth

RJay · 01-14-2012, 05:28 PM

Sorry, but you are not going to like what I have to post. All issue (and non issue ) 1911's left the factory with a serial number. The serial number on your grandfathers pistol has been removed. Your gun is now illegal, and has been from the day the serial number was removed. The way the law reads, since you are now the owner, it is assumed that you are the one who removed the serial number, in other words you are guilty until proven innocent.

ignats · 01-14-2012, 11:06 PM

Sadly, many nice old M1911 and A1 pistols had their serial numbers removed and or the USP ground off. It is illegal to possess a firearm that has had it's serial number removed or defaced. Don't let someone tell that if it was made prior to GCA 68 that it's okay, it isn't and as pointed out, just having it is a big problem. ATF will not renumber it either. They only do that when a gun you own is stolen, it's serial number removed and then it is recovered. In that case they will renumber it.

raven818 · 01-15-2012, 07:11 PM

Drop gun? In an emergency, maybe.

H-D · 01-15-2012, 07:16 PM

I would order a frame from caspian with grampas name as the serial and reassemble it on there then have the oldframe cut in half

RJay · 01-15-2012, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-D

I would order a frame from caspian with grampas name as the serial and reassemble it on there then have the oldframe cut in half

That is an excellent suggestion, all the parts but the frame can be used.

Dirtypacman · 01-16-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-D

I would order a frame from caspian with grampas name as the serial and reassemble it on there then have the oldframe cut in half

Awesome idea - get it done and call it an heirloom.

Robert Barth · 02-05-2012, 03:28 AM

His name is already stamped where the serial number would go. It was obviously done at the base armory while serving in Manila, obviously may be a bit strong, I assume it was. Everything is perfect on the weapon, just his name stamped where the original serial number went. It was mentioned to ne that this took place sometimes when officers sent their guns in for a rebuild or repair, any further thoughts, can't just throw it down, I have the same name. Don't want to sell it or fire it for that matter, it's just all I have if his. Any more help out there?
Thanks
BB

Jackman · 02-05-2012, 05:43 AM

Which state are you in ? Here in NY your 1911 would be illegal do not take it outside you get caught it will cost you a one year mandatory jail time

.

I have my Grandfathers WWI 1911 it has the serial number in tack he brought it home without papers but it was made legal in 2008 after a state and federal background check.

yetiman · 02-05-2012, 08:21 AM

Just a thought but the "caspian" frame is an excelent idea, you could obviously leave as is but why risk losing the whole thing? This is one of those instances where it would be nice to be able to use common sense but we are talking about the federal government.......

JLA · 02-05-2012, 01:25 PM

The serial was most likely welded up and your grandfathers name stamped in its place. As the others have said it is illegal to own here. The replacement frame idea is a good one and your only real option if you want to keep it Legally.

I dont condone it because it is illegal and will land you in federal prison, but you could always keep it secret and hope you never get caught with it. Problem is that if you ever pass it on to your future generations the problem will become theirs and one will eventually get caught with it and end up buried in federal prison. Is it worth it? Would your grandfather want that?

larryh1108 · 02-26-2012, 11:34 AM

Is it possible, considering his duties, that the legal serial# is his name as stamped? Why not? If there is no evidence of the "old" serial# being removed why is it not possible that he was there when the gun was made and his name is the legal serial#? Just wondering.

RJay · 02-26-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryh1108

Is it possible, considering his duties, that the legal serial# is his name as stamped? Why not? If there is no evidence of the "old" serial# being removed why is it not possible that he was there when the gun was made and his name is the legal serial#? Just wondering.

No, it is not possible, sorry about that.

JLA · 02-26-2012, 12:42 PM

And its easy to weld up a serial on a 1911 and machine the frame where you welded it. itll look likeit was never stamped so there wouldnt be any 'evidence' of tampering anyway.

ignats · 02-26-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Barth

His name is already stamped where the serial number would go. It was obviously done at the base armory while serving in Manila, obviously may be a bit strong, I assume it was. Everything is perfect on the weapon, just his name stamped where the original serial number went. It was mentioned to ne that this took place sometimes when officers sent their guns in for a rebuild or repair, any further thoughts, can't just throw it down, I have the same name. Don't want to sell it or fire it for that matter, it's just all I have if his. Any more help out there?
Thanks
BB

No government armory would remove the serial number and put someone's name on it. That was U.S. PROPERTY and was issued to military personnel to be returned when that person was either transferred or discharged. Pistols were easy to conceal and many left with the person they were issued to. If the number was removed, it was done in a vain attempt to hide the fact it was stolen from the government. That frame is illegal. If you are caught with it, you will have some problems.

01-14-2012, 02:57 PM	#1
Robert Barth Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2	Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather My grandfather was one of the early american army regulars to go to the Phillipines and help organize the scouts. In later years he became Provist Marshall of Manila. I have his early 1911, it has no serial number, has the property of U.S. Army stamp, but where the serial number should be, it just has his name stamped. Looking for any info on this weapon or others like it. Thanks R. Barth -->

01-14-2012, 05:28 PM	#2
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather Sorry, but you are not going to like what I have to post. All issue (and non issue ) 1911's left the factory with a serial number. The serial number on your grandfathers pistol has been removed. Your gun is now illegal, and has been from the day the serial number was removed. The way the law reads, since you are now the owner, it is assumed that you are the one who removed the serial number, in other words you are guilty until proven innocent. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 01-14-2012 at 05:33 PM..

01-14-2012, 11:06 PM	#3
ignats V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 93	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather Sadly, many nice old M1911 and A1 pistols had their serial numbers removed and or the USP ground off. It is illegal to possess a firearm that has had it's serial number removed or defaced. Don't let someone tell that if it was made prior to GCA 68 that it's okay, it isn't and as pointed out, just having it is a big problem. ATF will not renumber it either. They only do that when a gun you own is stolen, it's serial number removed and then it is recovered. In that case they will renumber it.

01-15-2012, 07:11 PM	#4
raven818 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Jax, Fl. Contributor Posts: 4,423	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather Drop gun? In an emergency, maybe. __________________ Firearms and Salt Water Fishing Retired 42 Years LEO

01-15-2012, 07:16 PM	#5
H-D Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,334	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather I would order a frame from caspian with grampas name as the serial and reassemble it on there then have the oldframe cut in half __________________ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

02-05-2012, 03:28 AM	#8
Robert Barth Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather His name is already stamped where the serial number would go. It was obviously done at the base armory while serving in Manila, obviously may be a bit strong, I assume it was. Everything is perfect on the weapon, just his name stamped where the original serial number went. It was mentioned to ne that this took place sometimes when officers sent their guns in for a rebuild or repair, any further thoughts, can't just throw it down, I have the same name. Don't want to sell it or fire it for that matter, it's just all I have if his. Any more help out there? Thanks BB

02-05-2012, 05:43 AM	#9
Jackman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 446	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather Which state are you in ? Here in NY your 1911 would be illegal do not take it outside you get caught it will cost you a one year mandatory jail time. I have my Grandfathers WWI 1911 it has the serial number in tack he brought it home without papers but it was made legal in 2008 after a state and federal background check.

02-05-2012, 08:21 AM	#10
yetiman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Martin, Tn Contributor Posts: 501	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather Just a thought but the "caspian" frame is an excelent idea, you could obviously leave as is but why risk losing the whole thing? This is one of those instances where it would be nice to be able to use common sense but we are talking about the federal government.......

02-05-2012, 01:25 PM	#11
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,318	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather The serial was most likely welded up and your grandfathers name stamped in its place. As the others have said it is illegal to own here. The replacement frame idea is a good one and your only real option if you want to keep it Legally. I dont condone it because it is illegal and will land you in federal prison, but you could always keep it secret and hope you never get caught with it. Problem is that if you ever pass it on to your future generations the problem will become theirs and one will eventually get caught with it and end up buried in federal prison. Is it worth it? Would your grandfather want that? __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 02-05-2012 at 01:29 PM..

02-26-2012, 11:34 AM	#12
larryh1108 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 16	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather Is it possible, considering his duties, that the legal serial# is his name as stamped? Why not? If there is no evidence of the "old" serial# being removed why is it not possible that he was there when the gun was made and his name is the legal serial#? Just wondering.

02-26-2012, 12:42 PM	#14
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,318	Re: Early 1911 without serial number, just name of my grandfather And its easy to weld up a serial on a 1911 and machine the frame where you welded it. itll look likeit was never stamped so there wouldnt be any 'evidence' of tampering anyway. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!