New Member with a Ruger MK question - The Firearms Forum

jeveretts · 02-26-2012, 05:02 PM

I was considering buying a .22 pistol, my son is in the Army, and quite a gun nut, he recommended I get a Ruger MKIII Standard. I was going to buy one, they seem to me in the low to mid $300's where I live.
But, interesting enough, I came across a guy locally, who is a friend of a friend, and a gun collector. He has a NOS MKI, serial numbered around 1966, this is a standard model, still in the box, unfired, with all the papers and manuals and stuff as new, been parked in a safe since new. He wants $375 for it. I don't have a problem with the price, and I certainly think it has a lot more 'cool' factor than a brand new one.
I would like to know opintions on the MKI vs the MKIII, I know it doesn't have a bolt lock at last round, nor does it have the loaded chamber indicator, but it is as reliable? Especially with modern ammo?
This is a gun I plan to shoot, at the range, I fully intend to put some rounds through it, I am not a collector, I just like old things, especially if they are as good, or better than the newer things

Thought?

glens67 · 02-26-2012, 05:15 PM

Welcome to the TFF the Best Forum..

I have always liked Ruger Guns. I can't answer your question but some one will soon. This question might be better answered in this section http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8

gvw3 · 02-26-2012, 05:25 PM

It seems a shame to take a gun from 1966 that has never been fired as a range gun. Never the less they made millions of these so It's not really an issue. I have shot both models and you should be happy with both...

jeveretts · 02-26-2012, 05:42 PM

I hear ya, it does seem to be a shame, I am slightly apprehesive about it, but I am not interested in owning a tool that can't be used, and since it is priced similar to a new one, especially once I pay sales tax and the background check, they are essentially priced the same.
That being said. I had a Remingon .22 Semi Auto rifle, a browning designed bottom eject that is dated around 1920, my grandfather bought it new at the hardware store when he was a kid, I recently gave it to my son, and bought myself a Henry .22 (AR-7), all I can say, is the 95 year old Remingon is so much of a better rifle than the new Henry it is astounding. They rounds go exactly where you put the sights, it never misfires, it never misfeeds, it is pushbutton reliable with even the cheapest of ammo, the new AR-7 on the other hand, with bulk Remington ammo, misfeeds about 1 out of every 30 rounds, 1 out of every magazine with American Eagle ammo, and the best it can do is around 6" at 50 yards, where the Remington puts around 3" at 50 yards.
I am kinda thinking a lot of manufacturers aren't putting the same kind of care into their products that they did in years past, so new for new, I am really leaning to the MKI over the MKIII, unless somebody tells me about some sort of glaring problem with the MKI's

Big Shrek · 02-26-2012, 06:28 PM

Bear in mind that Remington Rimfire ammo is the worst junk ever...a quick search turns up more headaches than you can imagine.

The biggest headache with the Ruger Mark series is the breakdown & cleaning...itsa PITA.
Browning Buckmark is a lot easier...same for the High Standard semi-auto's based on the Woodsman design.
For my money, I'd go with a HS or Browning...better track records as well.

jeveretts · 02-27-2012, 08:36 AM

Thanks Shrek, Glen, and GVW, I am going to go for it, the cool factor is way off the chart for me. Here are some pics, hope you enjoy them as much as me

Bindernut · 02-27-2012, 09:07 AM

Ooooh man, that is purty!
I'd hate to be the one to start it's shooting career since it's survived this long unfired...but on the other hand, it's a shame to leave it sit unused for the purpose it was built for! One heck of a dilemma...I wish it was mine.

BTW, your little beauty is not a MkI. It's a Ruger Standard.
The MkI is the adjustable-sight, adjustable trigger version
It wasn't until the MkII was introduced in the early 80s that both the fixed and adjustable sight models were called "Marks".

Also, you've probably found out already that the 1970 and earlier Std/MkI use a 9-round magazine instead of the 10-round. Also the mag follower button on your 9-round mag is on the right side.
In 1971, Ruger modified the frame to add the last-shot bolt hold open lever and the mag follower button was switched over to the left side. That button is used to operate the hold-open lever...that's why it switched sides.
BUT...you can still use the newer mags in your pistol though. You just need to disassemble the mag and flip the button over to the right side and then they'll work just fine.
To hold your bolt open for cleaning/etc, you flip the safety to the Safe position with the bolt retracted.

I had a 6" Standard just like yours shortly after I was out of college. It was a late 60s model and had it's share of holster wear but it was a superb little plinker.

prof_fate · 02-27-2012, 10:10 AM

The mk 2 mags will work in mk1 guns, the mk3 mags will not.
there are 9 and 10 round mags for the mk1/mk2.
the mk2 has the slide hold open on empty mag -AFAIk there is no way to make a mk1 do that - there were mags out at one time that allowed that to happen - perhaps that is the 1971 change Bindernut speaks of - but this is the first I've heard of it. The mk2 came out in 1982.

I have a 1978 Mk1 Target and the bolt does not stay open on the last shot, the mag button is on the right and the frame is notched in the grip so it can only be on the right. You can check your serial number here http://www.ruger.com/service/product.../PI-MarkI.html

Get one of these as it will making loading your magazine MUCH easier.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/132...-22-long-rifle

CJ_56 · 02-27-2012, 12:50 PM

I hope I can reach you before you buy the MkI. I absolutely love the MkII's and MkIII's. The MkII is especially great IMO. But I've never shot a MkI that I liked. I've never shot one that was accurate either and I've shot a lot of them. My friend has a MkII that is the most accurate pistol I ever shot. My brother had a MkI that I couldn't hit anything with at 20 yards. The MkII is accurate to 75 yards shooting 1" targets. I actually think the MkIII's are a little less accurate. But nothing I've shot beats the MkII although some guns do come very close.

There are just lots of nice guns that will shoot better than a MkI. I hate to burst your bubble here. They are nice looking and dependable. But if you want accuracy look elsewhere.

jeveretts · 02-27-2012, 02:51 PM

Well, looks like it isn't going to happen. Private sale, and the seller wants copies of my drivers licence and personal info, not really cool with giving my info to a random guy. On the other hand, my LGS has a new MKIII standard with a 4.75 barrel in stock for $299, Think I might as well get a new one then, that way I don't have to worry about scuffing it up or anything either

American Leader · 02-27-2012, 02:53 PM

Welcome aboard jeveretts from the "GREAT STATE OF IOWA"! You have a very nice looking pistola!

prof_fate · 02-27-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeveretts

Well, looks like it isn't going to happen. Private sale, and the seller wants copies of my drivers licence and personal info, not really cool with giving my info to a random guy. On the other hand, my LGS has a new MKIII standard with a 4.75 barrel in stock for $299, Think I might as well get a new one then, that way I don't have to worry about scuffing it up or anything either

Not sure the law where you are, but here all handguns need to be transferred via an FFL dealer.
So why not go to the FFL and do the exchange there?

It's not a good idea to buy/sell person to person without good proof of who's who - you don't know if the gun you're buying is hot, used in a murder or other crime, etc. If you sell one and don't do the transfer and it ends up being misused then the heat comes back on you. CYA.

Bindernut · 02-27-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeveretts

Well, looks like it isn't going to happen. Private sale, and the seller wants copies of my drivers licence and personal info, not really cool with giving my info to a random guy. On the other hand, my LGS has a new MKIII standard with a 4.75 barrel in stock for $299, Think I might as well get a new one then, that way I don't have to worry about scuffing it up or anything either

That's too bad, but I would feel the same way about giving personal info for a private sale. It could just be that the person selling the pistol just wants the info to to cover his butt in case the cops & ATF come knocking on his door saying that "his" pistol was involved in a crime. But...in these days, giving out personal info to a complete stranger (even to a good friend) can get yourself in trouble with all the identity theft BS that goes on these days.

That new MkIII will treat you just fine too...and you don't have to feel guilty about starting out with such a nice clean vintage machine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof_fate

The mk 2 mags will work in mk1 guns, the mk3 mags will not.
there are 9 and 10 round mags for the mk1/mk2.
the mk2 has the slide hold open on empty mag -AFAIk there is no way to make a mk1 do that - there were mags out at one time that allowed that to happen - perhaps that is the 1971 change Bindernut speaks of - but this is the first I've heard of it. The mk2 came out in 1982.

I have a 1978 Mk1 Target and the bolt does not stay open on the last shot, the mag button is on the right and the frame is notched in the grip so it can only be on the right. You can check your serial number here http://www.ruger.com/service/product.../PI-MarkI.html

Get one of these as it will making loading your magazine MUCH easier.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/132...-22-long-rifle

prof_fate,
My post was a bit incomplete. Had just got off of work and my brain was already starting into "it's bedtime" mode.

I'll fill in the gaps now.

In 1971, the Standard/MkI frame was redesigned to switch the frame slot and mag follower button over to the left side.

This was done because the original stamping dies for the frame pieces supposedly wore out and it was time for new ones.
(That's the story in Ruger collector circles anyway...I'm not sure I quite believe the fact that they only used one set of dies to stamp all of those frame pieces made from '49 to '70 but it is possible I suppose...that is the accepted history anyway.)

The new style frame also allowed them to add the bolt stop lever (last shot hold open) feature...but you are correct that bolt stop wasn't added until the the MkII was introduced in '81 or '82.

The 1971-newer frame is called an A100 frame. You'll find A100 stamped underneath the grip panel on the left side of the frame.
Besides the follower button/slot change, the lower grip screw location was changed, and the medallion on the grip was changed from the right side of the gun to the left side. Grips are not interchangeable between an early model and an A 100 model.
Easy rule of thumb to remember...the mag follower button has to be on the opposite side as the grip medallion.

Besides that late-60s Std and a couple of MkIIs I also had a Bicentennial MkI, which was an A100 frame. The button/slot was on the left side like the MkII.
'71-up mags were always easier for me to load...I'm a lefty and I'd hold the mag in my right hand and use my right thumb to pull the follower down as I stuffed the mag with my left hand.
On the early pistols, my mag load procedure was opposite and I always had a stinker of a time loading those mags. That's one reason why my early Std got traded off.

Your MkI sounds interesting. That sure sounds like it should be an early frame...but I'm sure you've verified the serial # since you posted the history page link and you know it's a '78 model.

Bindernut · 02-27-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof_fate

Not sure the law where you are, but here all handguns need to be transferred via an FFL dealer.
So why not go to the FFL and do the exchange there?

It's not a good idea to buy/sell person to person without good proof of who's who - you don't know if the gun you're buying is hot, used in a murder or other crime, etc. If you sell one and don't do the transfer and it ends up being misused then the heat comes back on you. CYA.

Yup, some states are like that. We're fortunate here in ND and don't have that restriction on private sales.
A lot of people around here are enlisting the services of an FFL holder to do 4473/BG-check transfers when they have a private auction sale though.

prof_fate · 02-27-2012, 05:28 PM

OK...mine is Mk 1 - says so on the receiver area in big print.
Medallion is on the right grip (as you'd hold the gun). Mag button is on the left (may have gotten that backwards in my earlier post...had the gun upside down).
I've not take a grip off to see the A100 stamping.

I like the pistol very much and it's very accurate and reliable. My only annoyance is that the bolt doesn't say open on an empty mag. At least it can be dry fired without damage. I've heard that there were mags available that would hold it open...not sure if htat's true or what was different about them.

It's funky to field strip but not terrible once you get used to it though. I've never knocked the barrel off the frame.

Bindernut · 02-27-2012, 05:44 PM

prof_fate,
Yup, yours is an A100 framed MkI then.

I kinda remember seeing the ads for those aftermarket "hold-open" mags in the gun rags back when I was in grade school (in the preMkII days). The follower was extended farther above the feed lips after the last round was fed and it popped up in front of the bolt to keep it from going back home. I could never figure them out since I don't think you'd be able to drop the mag without pulling the bolt back and locking it with the safety so the bolt wasn't pushing on the follower.
Don't remember who made them though and I have never seen any in person.
Kinda like the cheap RamLine plastic mags, it just looked like a gimmick to me.

jeveretts · 02-27-2012, 06:18 PM

I am in Florida, and private sales a completely unrestricted. That being said, I would just as soon get a new one at this point. I would probably rather the bolt stay open after the last shot.

CJ_56 · 02-28-2012, 03:32 PM

Freaking government. They would never consider restricting buying a newspaper but guns are just as protected by the constitution. I would NEVER give my personal info to a stranger. They could have your credit ruined the same day you gave it to them. They could take out a loan (in your name) on an RV and drive off into the sunset never to be seen again. I don't like having to go through a FFL holder either. What happens when they put extreme restrictions on who can get an FFL? They already put a lot of restrictions on people who want them.

I guess the constitution is just too complicated for them to read. "Not be infringed" means they can't limit you in any way. Making you go through an FFL is an abridgement if I ever saw one.

in·fringe
[in-frinj] Show IPA verb, -fringed, -fring·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.

Does anyone think they aren't infringing on your right to keep and bear arms by these laws requiring you get permission from the government to buy a gun?

02-26-2012, 05:02 PM	#1
jeveretts Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 28	New Member with a Ruger MK question I was considering buying a .22 pistol, my son is in the Army, and quite a gun nut, he recommended I get a Ruger MKIII Standard. I was going to buy one, they seem to me in the low to mid $300's where I live. But, interesting enough, I came across a guy locally, who is a friend of a friend, and a gun collector. He has a NOS MKI, serial numbered around 1966, this is a standard model, still in the box, unfired, with all the papers and manuals and stuff as new, been parked in a safe since new. He wants $375 for it. I don't have a problem with the price, and I certainly think it has a lot more 'cool' factor than a brand new one. I would like to know opintions on the MKI vs the MKIII, I know it doesn't have a bolt lock at last round, nor does it have the loaded chamber indicator, but it is as reliable? Especially with modern ammo? This is a gun I plan to shoot, at the range, I fully intend to put some rounds through it, I am not a collector, I just like old things, especially if they are as good, or better than the newer things Thought? -->

02-26-2012, 05:15 PM	#2
glens67 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middleton, ID Contributor Posts: 951	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Welcome to the TFF the Best Forum.. I have always liked Ruger Guns. I can't answer your question but some one will soon. This question might be better answered in this section http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8 __________________ The fish is rotting from the head down—all is not well at the top of the political hierarchy. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein There is nothing more dangerous than a fanatic moron. Many problems we face today are there because people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Molon Labe μολὼν λαβέ A Deo victoria Glen Last edited by glens67; 02-26-2012 at 05:18 PM..

02-26-2012, 05:25 PM	#3
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,305	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question It seems a shame to take a gun from 1966 that has never been fired as a range gun. Never the less they made millions of these so It's not really an issue. I have shot both models and you should be happy with both... __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.

02-26-2012, 05:42 PM	#4
jeveretts Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 28	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question I hear ya, it does seem to be a shame, I am slightly apprehesive about it, but I am not interested in owning a tool that can't be used, and since it is priced similar to a new one, especially once I pay sales tax and the background check, they are essentially priced the same. That being said. I had a Remingon .22 Semi Auto rifle, a browning designed bottom eject that is dated around 1920, my grandfather bought it new at the hardware store when he was a kid, I recently gave it to my son, and bought myself a Henry .22 (AR-7), all I can say, is the 95 year old Remingon is so much of a better rifle than the new Henry it is astounding. They rounds go exactly where you put the sights, it never misfires, it never misfeeds, it is pushbutton reliable with even the cheapest of ammo, the new AR-7 on the other hand, with bulk Remington ammo, misfeeds about 1 out of every 30 rounds, 1 out of every magazine with American Eagle ammo, and the best it can do is around 6" at 50 yards, where the Remington puts around 3" at 50 yards. I am kinda thinking a lot of manufacturers aren't putting the same kind of care into their products that they did in years past, so new for new, I am really leaning to the MKI over the MKIII, unless somebody tells me about some sort of glaring problem with the MKI's Last edited by jeveretts; 02-26-2012 at 05:43 PM..

02-26-2012, 06:28 PM	#5
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 923	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Bear in mind that Remington Rimfire ammo is the worst junk ever...a quick search turns up more headaches than you can imagine. The biggest headache with the Ruger Mark series is the breakdown & cleaning...itsa PITA. Browning Buckmark is a lot easier...same for the High Standard semi-auto's based on the Woodsman design. For my money, I'd go with a HS or Browning...better track records as well. __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

02-27-2012, 08:36 AM	#6
jeveretts Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 28	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Thanks Shrek, Glen, and GVW, I am going to go for it, the cool factor is way off the chart for me. Here are some pics, hope you enjoy them as much as me

02-27-2012, 09:07 AM	#7
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,453	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Ooooh man, that is purty! I'd hate to be the one to start it's shooting career since it's survived this long unfired...but on the other hand, it's a shame to leave it sit unused for the purpose it was built for! One heck of a dilemma...I wish it was mine. BTW, your little beauty is not a MkI. It's a Ruger Standard. The MkI is the adjustable-sight, adjustable trigger version It wasn't until the MkII was introduced in the early 80s that both the fixed and adjustable sight models were called "Marks". Also, you've probably found out already that the 1970 and earlier Std/MkI use a 9-round magazine instead of the 10-round. Also the mag follower button on your 9-round mag is on the right side. In 1971, Ruger modified the frame to add the last-shot bolt hold open lever and the mag follower button was switched over to the left side. That button is used to operate the hold-open lever...that's why it switched sides. BUT...you can still use the newer mags in your pistol though. You just need to disassemble the mag and flip the button over to the right side and then they'll work just fine. To hold your bolt open for cleaning/etc, you flip the safety to the Safe position with the bolt retracted. I had a 6" Standard just like yours shortly after I was out of college. It was a late 60s model and had it's share of holster wear but it was a superb little plinker.

02-27-2012, 10:10 AM	#8
prof_fate Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 143	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question The mk 2 mags will work in mk1 guns, the mk3 mags will not. there are 9 and 10 round mags for the mk1/mk2. the mk2 has the slide hold open on empty mag -AFAIk there is no way to make a mk1 do that - there were mags out at one time that allowed that to happen - perhaps that is the 1971 change Bindernut speaks of - but this is the first I've heard of it. The mk2 came out in 1982. I have a 1978 Mk1 Target and the bolt does not stay open on the last shot, the mag button is on the right and the frame is notched in the grip so it can only be on the right. You can check your serial number here http://www.ruger.com/service/product.../PI-MarkI.html Get one of these as it will making loading your magazine MUCH easier. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/132...-22-long-rifle Last edited by prof_fate; 02-27-2012 at 10:12 AM..

02-27-2012, 12:50 PM	#9
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question I hope I can reach you before you buy the MkI. I absolutely love the MkII's and MkIII's. The MkII is especially great IMO. But I've never shot a MkI that I liked. I've never shot one that was accurate either and I've shot a lot of them. My friend has a MkII that is the most accurate pistol I ever shot. My brother had a MkI that I couldn't hit anything with at 20 yards. The MkII is accurate to 75 yards shooting 1" targets. I actually think the MkIII's are a little less accurate. But nothing I've shot beats the MkII although some guns do come very close. There are just lots of nice guns that will shoot better than a MkI. I hate to burst your bubble here. They are nice looking and dependable. But if you want accuracy look elsewhere.

02-27-2012, 02:51 PM	#10
jeveretts Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 28	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Well, looks like it isn't going to happen. Private sale, and the seller wants copies of my drivers licence and personal info, not really cool with giving my info to a random guy. On the other hand, my LGS has a new MKIII standard with a 4.75 barrel in stock for $299, Think I might as well get a new one then, that way I don't have to worry about scuffing it up or anything either Last edited by jeveretts; 02-27-2012 at 02:54 PM..

02-27-2012, 02:53 PM	#11
American Leader Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,630	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Welcome aboard jeveretts from the "GREAT STATE OF IOWA"! You have a very nice looking pistola!

02-27-2012, 05:28 PM	#15
prof_fate Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 143	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question OK...mine is Mk 1 - says so on the receiver area in big print. Medallion is on the right grip (as you'd hold the gun). Mag button is on the left (may have gotten that backwards in my earlier post...had the gun upside down). I've not take a grip off to see the A100 stamping. I like the pistol very much and it's very accurate and reliable. My only annoyance is that the bolt doesn't say open on an empty mag. At least it can be dry fired without damage. I've heard that there were mags available that would hold it open...not sure if htat's true or what was different about them. It's funky to field strip but not terrible once you get used to it though. I've never knocked the barrel off the frame.

02-27-2012, 05:44 PM	#16
Bindernut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ND, USA Posts: 2,453	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question prof_fate, Yup, yours is an A100 framed MkI then. I kinda remember seeing the ads for those aftermarket "hold-open" mags in the gun rags back when I was in grade school (in the preMkII days). The follower was extended farther above the feed lips after the last round was fed and it popped up in front of the bolt to keep it from going back home. I could never figure them out since I don't think you'd be able to drop the mag without pulling the bolt back and locking it with the safety so the bolt wasn't pushing on the follower. Don't remember who made them though and I have never seen any in person. Kinda like the cheap RamLine plastic mags, it just looked like a gimmick to me.

02-27-2012, 06:18 PM	#17
jeveretts Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 28	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question I am in Florida, and private sales a completely unrestricted. That being said, I would just as soon get a new one at this point. I would probably rather the bolt stay open after the last shot.

02-28-2012, 03:32 PM	#18
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: New Member with a Ruger MK question Freaking government. They would never consider restricting buying a newspaper but guns are just as protected by the constitution. I would NEVER give my personal info to a stranger. They could have your credit ruined the same day you gave it to them. They could take out a loan (in your name) on an RV and drive off into the sunset never to be seen again. I don't like having to go through a FFL holder either. What happens when they put extreme restrictions on who can get an FFL? They already put a lot of restrictions on people who want them. I guess the constitution is just too complicated for them to read. "Not be infringed" means they can't limit you in any way. Making you go through an FFL is an abridgement if I ever saw one. in·fringe [in-frinj] Show IPA verb, -fringed, -fring·ing. verb (used with object) 1. to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule. Does anyone think they aren't infringing on your right to keep and bear arms by these laws requiring you get permission from the government to buy a gun?