MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. - The Firearms Forum

steve4102 · 02-20-2012, 07:01 AM

MN LE opposes Personal Protection bill. Nice!

http://www.startribune.com/politics/...139460918.html

Police and prosecutors took a united stand Thursday against a bill that would expand the definition of self-defense and the use of deadly force for civilians who feel threatened in their homes and cars and in public places.

"Standing here is all law enforcement, all Minnesota's prosecutors," Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman told a State Capitol news conference. "We unanimously oppose this bill."

The Minneapolis and St. Paul police chiefs, representatives of the state's police chiefs and rank-and-file officers, and the state County Attorneys Association joined Freeman in denouncing the bill.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/c...139327433.html

http://therightofthepeople.org/minne...er-attack.html

http://www.mndaily.com/2012/02/14/gun-bill-shaky-ground

lawdawg · 02-20-2012, 09:05 AM

I think the results from the states that have passed similar "castle doctrine" laws, mine included, speaks for itself. Far from seeing chaos, and shootouts in the streets, there has actually been a REDUCTION in crime. Imagine That! No one should be required to retreat from a threat when they are in a place that they have a legal right to be; whether that is in one's home, or at the grocery store. I'm a little shocked at my brothers-in-blue in Minnesota, not so mauch at the chiefs (they ain't real cops anyway), but the "rank and file" officers that oppose this law.

.

jim brady · 02-20-2012, 09:42 AM

Lawdawg is right as rain about Police Chief's as not being real Police Officers. They are POLITICIANS. The Chief usually serves at the Mayor's pleasure. Some Police Chiefs are honest, hard working folk trying to do the right thing, but most are just collecting pay and earning political points. As far as "Rank And File" Officers falling in line with the Police Chiefs - they are just ladder climbers waiting for their turn at the Chief's desk.

The old Gun Control line about "shootouts on every street corner" and "fender-benders turning into Wild West gun battles" never has turned out that way. Armed honest citizens equal safer communities. When seconds matter even the best Police Departments are minutes away.

USMCSpeedy · 02-20-2012, 09:42 AM

There are alot of officers around that think this is a good thing. Unfortunately their higher-ups are more political and are against it making it look like everone in their department is against it.

Conman · 02-20-2012, 10:43 AM

Well, that shows you what the "opinion" of LE is worth.

lawdawg · 02-20-2012, 11:50 AM

"The old Gun Control line about "shootouts on every street corner" and "fender-benders turning into Wild West gun battles" never has turned out that way. Armed honest citizens equal safer communities. When seconds matter even the best Police Departments are minutes away."

The funny thing about the "Wild West" is that the most notoriously wild towns and infamous gun fights was a result of strict gun control laws. Towns like Dodge City, Kansas, Tombstone, Arizona, etc. had VERY strict gun control laws. In fact, the infamous Gun Fight at the OK Corral was a result in the town's law enforcement (represented by the Earps) attempting to disarm the cowboys (represented by the Clantons) who had violated the law by coming into town armed. Much like modern day cities such as DC and Chicago who have the strictest gun laws and (surprise, surprise) the highest crime rates.

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al45lc · 02-20-2012, 01:34 PM

Not surprising, Mn has always been a VERY blue state.

Bobitis · 02-20-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al45lc

Not surprising, Mn has always been a VERY blue state.

If ya wanna see blue, come to Warshington.

This would never pass here.

http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/inde...tive_676_(1997)

http://www.womenshooters.com/wfn/i676.html

jack404 · 02-20-2012, 07:53 PM

sounds like they want you all to be victims ..

vote em out ..

Deputy Dawg · 02-20-2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve4102

MN LE opposes Personal Protection bill. Nice!

http://www.startribune.com/politics/...139460918.html

Police and prosecutors took a united stand Thursday against a bill that would expand the definition of self-defense and the use of deadly force for civilians who feel threatened in their homes and cars and in public places.

"Standing here is all law enforcement, all Minnesota's prosecutors," Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman told a State Capitol news conference. "We unanimously oppose this bill."

The Minneapolis and St. Paul police chiefs, representatives of the state's police chiefs and rank-and-file officers, and the state County Attorneys Association joined Freeman in denouncing the bill.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/c...139327433.html

http://therightofthepeople.org/minne...er-attack.html

http://www.mndaily.com/2012/02/14/gun-bill-shaky-ground

This is just one of the reasons why I live in Texas.

muddober · 02-21-2012, 08:52 AM

Retreating to me means getting shot or stabbed in the back.

Ron

Jim K · 02-21-2012, 10:35 AM

It's all about power. The corrupt cops and official thugs who have it and use it to intimidate and terrorize the citizens don't want to give any of it up. And there is the concern that a citizen might do in a drug dealer or robber and deprive the crooked police and politicians of their cut in the illegal take.

Jim

ProtectorRoss · 02-21-2012, 01:43 PM

After reading this, a quote that I have seen a few times come to mind...
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.

If cops could protect us 100% of the time, I would not carry a gun. If I ever need to use my gun to defend myself I hope it is in a gun supportive area.

steve4102 · 02-21-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

It's all about power. The corrupt cops and official thugs who have it and use it to intimidate and terrorize the citizens don't want to give any of it up. And there is the concern that a citizen might do in a drug dealer or robber and deprive the crooked police and politicians of their cut in the illegal take.

Jim

Hey Jim, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

Back when I took my "Permit to Carry" class we had a local LEO speak and teach us a thing or two. One of the things he taught us was that he does not believe in the "right to carry" and he will not tolerate "open carry". Told the class that he and his fellow officers (with the blessing of the Chief) will arrest anyone if they are seen open carrying. You will be charged with Disturbing the Peace and your firearm confiscated. He also informed us that the legal fees associated with getting your firearm back would outweigh the cost of the firearm 10 fold. He ended his informative speech by pointing his finger at the class saying, open carry, "Not in My Town".

millwright · 02-21-2012, 09:04 PM

Don't know about current conditions, but those prevalent circa the late Eighties in MSP would give me pause to agreeing to CCW ! >MW

Blackhawk Dave · 02-29-2012, 04:39 PM

Having worked in two City Attorney offices as an investigator, I can personally state that, while there are LEOs that are conciencious and care about the public, there are also many who are corrupt and who are bullys, using the badge to hide.

02-20-2012, 07:01 AM	#1
steve4102 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota Contributor Posts: 2,760	MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. MN LE opposes Personal Protection bill. Nice! http://www.startribune.com/politics/...139460918.html Police and prosecutors took a united stand Thursday against a bill that would expand the definition of self-defense and the use of deadly force for civilians who feel threatened in their homes and cars and in public places. "Standing here is all law enforcement, all Minnesota's prosecutors," Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman told a State Capitol news conference. "We unanimously oppose this bill." The Minneapolis and St. Paul police chiefs, representatives of the state's police chiefs and rank-and-file officers, and the state County Attorneys Association joined Freeman in denouncing the bill. http://www.startribune.com/opinion/c...139327433.html http://therightofthepeople.org/minne...er-attack.html http://www.mndaily.com/2012/02/14/gun-bill-shaky-ground -->

02-20-2012, 09:05 AM	#2
lawdawg V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: South Alabama Posts: 268	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. I think the results from the states that have passed similar "castle doctrine" laws, mine included, speaks for itself. Far from seeing chaos, and shootouts in the streets, there has actually been a REDUCTION in crime. Imagine That! No one should be required to retreat from a threat when they are in a place that they have a legal right to be; whether that is in one's home, or at the grocery store. I'm a little shocked at my brothers-in-blue in Minnesota, not so mauch at the chiefs (they ain't real cops anyway), but the "rank and file" officers that oppose this law. . __________________ Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

02-20-2012, 09:42 AM	#3
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,072	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. Lawdawg is right as rain about Police Chief's as not being real Police Officers. They are POLITICIANS. The Chief usually serves at the Mayor's pleasure. Some Police Chiefs are honest, hard working folk trying to do the right thing, but most are just collecting pay and earning political points. As far as "Rank And File" Officers falling in line with the Police Chiefs - they are just ladder climbers waiting for their turn at the Chief's desk. The old Gun Control line about "shootouts on every street corner" and "fender-benders turning into Wild West gun battles" never has turned out that way. Armed honest citizens equal safer communities. When seconds matter even the best Police Departments are minutes away. Last edited by jim brady; 02-20-2012 at 09:45 AM..

02-20-2012, 09:42 AM	#4
USMCSpeedy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 627	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. There are alot of officers around that think this is a good thing. Unfortunately their higher-ups are more political and are against it making it look like everone in their department is against it. __________________ If all else fails, VOTE FROM THE ROOFTOPS Trying to reform a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end. What this country needs is more family trees that will produce more lumber and fewer nuts!

02-20-2012, 10:43 AM	#5
Conman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Eastern Iowa Contributor Posts: 193	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. Well, that shows you what the "opinion" of LE is worth. __________________ USAF 1955-1977

02-20-2012, 11:50 AM	#6
lawdawg V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: South Alabama Posts: 268	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. "The old Gun Control line about "shootouts on every street corner" and "fender-benders turning into Wild West gun battles" never has turned out that way. Armed honest citizens equal safer communities. When seconds matter even the best Police Departments are minutes away." The funny thing about the "Wild West" is that the most notoriously wild towns and infamous gun fights was a result of strict gun control laws. Towns like Dodge City, Kansas, Tombstone, Arizona, etc. had VERY strict gun control laws. In fact, the infamous Gun Fight at the OK Corral was a result in the town's law enforcement (represented by the Earps) attempting to disarm the cowboys (represented by the Clantons) who had violated the law by coming into town armed. Much like modern day cities such as DC and Chicago who have the strictest gun laws and (surprise, surprise) the highest crime rates. . __________________ Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764 Last edited by lawdawg; 02-20-2012 at 11:53 AM..

02-20-2012, 01:34 PM	#7
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. Not surprising, Mn has always been a VERY blue state. __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.

02-20-2012, 07:53 PM	#9
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. sounds like they want you all to be victims .. vote em out ..

02-21-2012, 08:52 AM	#11
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. Retreating to me means getting shot or stabbed in the back. Ron

02-21-2012, 10:35 AM	#12
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. It's all about power. The corrupt cops and official thugs who have it and use it to intimidate and terrorize the citizens don't want to give any of it up. And there is the concern that a citizen might do in a drug dealer or robber and deprive the crooked police and politicians of their cut in the illegal take. Jim

02-21-2012, 01:43 PM	#13
ProtectorRoss Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 7	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. After reading this, a quote that I have seen a few times come to mind... I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy. If cops could protect us 100% of the time, I would not carry a gun. If I ever need to use my gun to defend myself I hope it is in a gun supportive area.

02-21-2012, 09:04 PM	#15
millwright Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,435	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. Don't know about current conditions, but those prevalent circa the late Eighties in MSP would give me pause to agreeing to CCW ! >MW

02-29-2012, 04:39 PM	#16
Blackhawk Dave Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 593	Re: MN LE Denounce Personal Protection Bill. Having worked in two City Attorney offices as an investigator, I can personally state that, while there are LEOs that are conciencious and care about the public, there are also many who are corrupt and who are bullys, using the badge to hide.