Remington

jim summers · 04-12-2012, 09:16 PM

Watched a program with Brian Williams last night, the report was on Remington and some of their shotguns and rifles misfiring. It was a pretty damaging report i think they have been in the cross hairs before. So is Remington on its way out or are they to big.

Hammerslagger · 04-12-2012, 10:02 PM

There have been charges (including those from its designer) that the trigger and safety design of the Rem. 700 could be better. These charges are likely true.

These charges include that the trigger/safety designer (and patent holder) suggested fail-safe improvements that were never adopted over 60 years ago; and that there have been accidental discharges related to the original and still current design.

At this point, I have not had the opportunity to adequately study the matter in order to form an opinion on this matter. I will be doing so in the near future.

There are over 5,000,000 of these rifles in service. If you have or use one be extra careful when releasing the safety or opening the bolt on a loaded round.

cpttango30 · 04-13-2012, 05:14 AM

It was a bunch of hogwash concocted by the gun grabbers MSNBC to scare people. There have been maybe 300 reported cases of this happening. With over 5 million 700 out there that's a decent safety record in my eyes.

If there were 500 failures and 5 million rifles out there that's a failure rte of .01% not bad if you think about it. A typical car has how many recalls every car I have ever owned has hat at least 3. My last one had a design flaw in the fuel system that could randomly cause the car to explode. No one ever notified me there was a problem. That same car also had a design flaw in the breaking system that would cause them to fail.

Double D · 04-13-2012, 07:47 AM

Go to remingtons website and watch the video that rebuts the false reports by msnbc. It was mostly all hogwash.

CampingJosh · 04-13-2012, 08:43 AM

Even if a rifle fires when the operator does not intend, it shouldn't do any damage. "Never point a gun at anything you're not willing to shoot."

And everything breaks down without proper maintenance.

carver · 04-13-2012, 09:52 AM

I watched the show too, a few months ago. Soon after I went to the gun store and bought me a new 700! Safety, safety, safety! The best safety for any gun is the safety between your ears! If that one's not working, you are in deep do-do!

jjmitchell60 · 04-13-2012, 10:08 AM

One thing it did not point out is some of the rifles that had ADs had had trigger work done to them before the AD. No one knows how many of them for sure had trigger jons done to them but you can count on some of the ADs being from trigger work being done. I have several 700s and so far no ADs but the first rule of shooting any firearm is SAFETY! We teach in gun safety classes that a safety on a firearm is amechanical device that may or may not work as designed so do not depend on it to work as designed, always point the muzzle in a safe direction as a result of the mechanical safety!

Hammerslagger · 04-13-2012, 10:32 AM

Historically, many USA manufacturers have discovered that a product had a safety problem or potential safety problem.

In some cases nothing was done. In other cases the product was quietly redesigned, and nothing was said about the dangerous or potentially dangerous earlier versions.

Often the business logic and decision making for such conduct it that it is less expensive to have to settle an estimated number of lawsuits for an estimated total dollar cost, than it would be to redesign and/or have a recall.

The very act of redesigning can be considered an admission of a previous defective design that should be recalled, by some. {Ruger still wants all three screw SA's back for modification, and NAA wants all early mini revolvers back.} This do nothing or redesign and say nothing thinking was used by one major Detroit area automaker and by a US pistol maker located in CA over 30 years ago. Such conduct cost the automaker dearly. The pistol maker got away with it, but was wrongfully held liable for a non-defect about 20 years later that put it into bankruptcy.

I have no respect for any major news media organization. I have observed and experienced several of them trying to manipulate facts to try to lie and portray some perverted agenda on several occasions. It seems that they are only interested in viewer ratings, and not the truth.

However, there are copies of documents (that include patents and corporate memos) available on the Internet that suggest that the Remington model 700 trigger designer and patenter thought that his trigger design needed revision for safety reasons over 60 years ago.

I have not studied this matter in detail. Thus, I cannot have an informed opinion greater than expressed here. I will say that if Remington has to recall 5 million rifles, such might likely put them out of business.

cjh7819 · 04-13-2012, 12:13 PM

I had an accidental discharge with a 700 about a month ago. Flipped the safety to fire and boom. The gun itself was made in the seventies, I bought it used, don't know if it had trigger work at one time or not but the trigger felt much better than my other 700s. And yes it was pointed in a safe direction. Replaced all my 700 triggers with timneys.

cpttango30 · 04-13-2012, 12:29 PM

Timney is what I have one mine as well.

Just don't ever buy a Jewell.

Cause if you do you will never be satisfied with anything else.

gcalloway · 04-13-2012, 12:46 PM

I had an accidental discharge on a Remington 700. Never told anybody because I killed a buffalo with it. I was preparing to shoot and when I pushed the safty forward it fired. I wish it was on film so I could be for sure my finger was not on the trigger. That was before I filmed hunts.

Ledslnger · 04-13-2012, 06:22 PM

I was watching that show Out in the Wild, ALASKA or something like that. The survival group had two guns a Ruger No. 1 in .45-70 and an over and under Remington .22/.410 and it didn't fire for them quite a few times. Sucks when you are trying to get your food and your gun doesn't work.

mjp28 · 04-13-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjh7819

I had an accidental discharge with a 700 about a month ago. Flipped the safety to fire and boom. The gun itself was made in the seventies, I bought it used, don't know if it had trigger work at one time or not but the trigger felt much better than my other 700s. And yes it was pointed in a safe direction. Replaced all my 700 triggers with timneys.

I also saw that show, twice, true not that many of the 700s misfired out of millions, even used by US Military snipers, but some did.

It's a rifle not a hammer a defect can be serious, they showed many people who were injured by the guns. If a gun goes off unexpectedly it's dangerous regardless of normal gun safety protocol (I've been a rifle shooter for about 50 years, no accidents).

Overblown? Maybe but still a scary situation on those 700s involved.

joncutt87 · 04-13-2012, 11:54 PM

Some incidents were caused by users adjusting the trigger

flyingtiger85 · 04-14-2012, 12:59 AM

I killed several Deer with a Remington Model-700 in 30-06 but the discharge wasn't accidental.
P.S. I hope MSNBC dosen't say anything bad about Remington Electric Shavers.

hogger129 · 04-14-2012, 07:37 AM

Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I was always thought you were supposed to keep the action/bolt open until you were ready to shoot at something, then when ready to shoot, close the bolt, therefore chambering a round.

My dad's got a Remington - not sure which model - but it's a semi-auto .30-06 that he used to deer hunt with and he never chambered a round until he was ready to shoot something. Never had an accidental discharge in the 30 something years he hunted deer.

MSNBC should forever be referred to as MSNBS.

jim summers · 04-14-2012, 01:50 PM

Thanks for the feedback i don't plan on owning a 700 can't use them here in Indiana to hunt deer with and i don't collect guns i just wanted your thoughts on the matter.

gvw3 · 04-14-2012, 07:05 PM

Watch this.

http://www.remington700.tv/

04-12-2012, 09:16 PM	#1
jim summers Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I reside in southern Indiana, you can almost step out of my back door and be setting on Patoka Lake Posts: 1,056	Remington Watched a program with Brian Williams last night, the report was on Remington and some of their shotguns and rifles misfiring. It was a pretty damaging report i think they have been in the cross hairs before. So is Remington on its way out or are they to big. __________________ To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required. -->

04-12-2012, 10:02 PM	#2
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Remington There have been charges (including those from its designer) that the trigger and safety design of the Rem. 700 could be better. These charges are likely true. These charges include that the trigger/safety designer (and patent holder) suggested fail-safe improvements that were never adopted over 60 years ago; and that there have been accidental discharges related to the original and still current design. At this point, I have not had the opportunity to adequately study the matter in order to form an opinion on this matter. I will be doing so in the near future. There are over 5,000,000 of these rifles in service. If you have or use one be extra careful when releasing the safety or opening the bolt on a loaded round. Last edited by Hammerslagger; 04-12-2012 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: typo

04-13-2012, 05:14 AM	#3
cpttango30 Former Guest Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stafford, VA Contributor Posts: 3,071	Re: Remington It was a bunch of hogwash concocted by the gun grabbers MSNBC to scare people. There have been maybe 300 reported cases of this happening. With over 5 million 700 out there that's a decent safety record in my eyes. If there were 500 failures and 5 million rifles out there that's a failure rte of .01% not bad if you think about it. A typical car has how many recalls every car I have ever owned has hat at least 3. My last one had a design flaw in the fuel system that could randomly cause the car to explode. No one ever notified me there was a problem. That same car also had a design flaw in the breaking system that would cause them to fail. Last edited by cpttango30; 04-13-2012 at 05:19 AM..

04-13-2012, 07:47 AM	#4
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,054	Re: Remington Go to remingtons website and watch the video that rebuts the false reports by msnbc. It was mostly all hogwash. __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

04-13-2012, 08:43 AM	#5
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,786	Re: Remington Even if a rifle fires when the operator does not intend, it shouldn't do any damage. "Never point a gun at anything you're not willing to shoot." And everything breaks down without proper maintenance. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

04-13-2012, 09:52 AM	#6
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,219	Re: Remington I watched the show too, a few months ago. Soon after I went to the gun store and bought me a new 700! Safety, safety, safety! The best safety for any gun is the safety between your ears! If that one's not working, you are in deep do-do! __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

04-13-2012, 10:08 AM	#7
jjmitchell60 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls of Kentucky Contributor Posts: 1,471	Re: Remington One thing it did not point out is some of the rifles that had ADs had had trigger work done to them before the AD. No one knows how many of them for sure had trigger jons done to them but you can count on some of the ADs being from trigger work being done. I have several 700s and so far no ADs but the first rule of shooting any firearm is SAFETY! We teach in gun safety classes that a safety on a firearm is amechanical device that may or may not work as designed so do not depend on it to work as designed, always point the muzzle in a safe direction as a result of the mechanical safety! __________________ Oath Keepers NOT ON OUR WATCH www.oathkeepers.org 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes Duty... Thomas Jefferson

04-13-2012, 10:32 AM	#8
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Remington Historically, many USA manufacturers have discovered that a product had a safety problem or potential safety problem. In some cases nothing was done. In other cases the product was quietly redesigned, and nothing was said about the dangerous or potentially dangerous earlier versions. Often the business logic and decision making for such conduct it that it is less expensive to have to settle an estimated number of lawsuits for an estimated total dollar cost, than it would be to redesign and/or have a recall. The very act of redesigning can be considered an admission of a previous defective design that should be recalled, by some. {Ruger still wants all three screw SA's back for modification, and NAA wants all early mini revolvers back.} This do nothing or redesign and say nothing thinking was used by one major Detroit area automaker and by a US pistol maker located in CA over 30 years ago. Such conduct cost the automaker dearly. The pistol maker got away with it, but was wrongfully held liable for a non-defect about 20 years later that put it into bankruptcy. I have no respect for any major news media organization. I have observed and experienced several of them trying to manipulate facts to try to lie and portray some perverted agenda on several occasions. It seems that they are only interested in viewer ratings, and not the truth. However, there are copies of documents (that include patents and corporate memos) available on the Internet that suggest that the Remington model 700 trigger designer and patenter thought that his trigger design needed revision for safety reasons over 60 years ago. I have not studied this matter in detail. Thus, I cannot have an informed opinion greater than expressed here. I will say that if Remington has to recall 5 million rifles, such might likely put them out of business.

04-13-2012, 12:13 PM	#9
cjh7819 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 137	Re: Remington I had an accidental discharge with a 700 about a month ago. Flipped the safety to fire and boom. The gun itself was made in the seventies, I bought it used, don't know if it had trigger work at one time or not but the trigger felt much better than my other 700s. And yes it was pointed in a safe direction. Replaced all my 700 triggers with timneys.

04-13-2012, 12:29 PM	#10
cpttango30 Former Guest Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stafford, VA Contributor Posts: 3,071	Re: Remington Timney is what I have one mine as well. Just don't ever buy a Jewell. Cause if you do you will never be satisfied with anything else.

04-13-2012, 12:46 PM	#11
gcalloway V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Atlanta Posts: 88	Re: Remington I had an accidental discharge on a Remington 700. Never told anybody because I killed a buffalo with it. I was preparing to shoot and when I pushed the safty forward it fired. I wish it was on film so I could be for sure my finger was not on the trigger. That was before I filmed hunts. __________________ Success: Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. - Henry Ford

04-13-2012, 06:22 PM	#12
Ledslnger V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: N Central, IA Posts: 415	Re: Remington I was watching that show Out in the Wild, ALASKA or something like that. The survival group had two guns a Ruger No. 1 in .45-70 and an over and under Remington .22/.410 and it didn't fire for them quite a few times. Sucks when you are trying to get your food and your gun doesn't work.

04-13-2012, 11:54 PM	#14
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: Remington Some incidents were caused by users adjusting the trigger __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

04-14-2012, 12:59 AM	#15
flyingtiger85 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Nevada Posts: 743	Re: Remington I killed several Deer with a Remington Model-700 in 30-06 but the discharge wasn't accidental. P.S. I hope MSNBC dosen't say anything bad about Remington Electric Shavers. Last edited by flyingtiger85; 04-14-2012 at 01:03 AM..

04-14-2012, 07:37 AM	#16
hogger129 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,064	Re: Remington Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I was always thought you were supposed to keep the action/bolt open until you were ready to shoot at something, then when ready to shoot, close the bolt, therefore chambering a round. My dad's got a Remington - not sure which model - but it's a semi-auto .30-06 that he used to deer hunt with and he never chambered a round until he was ready to shoot something. Never had an accidental discharge in the 30 something years he hunted deer. MSNBC should forever be referred to as MSNBS. __________________ Samuel Adams once said, "among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can." Last edited by hogger129; 04-14-2012 at 07:40 AM..

04-14-2012, 01:50 PM	#17
jim summers Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I reside in southern Indiana, you can almost step out of my back door and be setting on Patoka Lake Posts: 1,056	Re: Remington Thanks for the feedback i don't plan on owning a 700 can't use them here in Indiana to hunt deer with and i don't collect guns i just wanted your thoughts on the matter. __________________ To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required.

04-14-2012, 07:05 PM	#18
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,239	Re: Remington Watch this. http://www.remington700.tv/ __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.