Convulsions of hunted animals information request

[jack404]

and sorry for the slagging you got from some of the aussie forums the same names posting every where , all experts and know your a spy for greenpeace in melbourne ..

seems i'm a yank now , a dumb one too and i wonder why they have a hard time keeping members up

s'ok the same folks all publicly declared i was poaching some farmers deer the first time i posted a hunt shot to prove there where wild deer here .. but let's not mention that eh ...

same folks now try to control deer hunting and other forms of "our" sport .. they are good at flip flopping ..

sheeesh

Doc hope this helps you help sick folks .. good luck eh ,

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by jack404

yes and a pressy for you ( sorry for the delay the big hunting season has just opened and got folks in the field now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEwG8...eature=related

Thank you for the tip and safe hunting

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by jack404

Folks, G'day

These folks are doing research on a few different things , what we know is that when something dies of total brain stoppage ( like when i put a .223 through a roo) the spine can take over some nearve responces , almost like the spine is a second brain , and in some ways it is but oly on a nerve level

Yes, the spine has its own "logic". It is not just the 'wires' from the head to the muscles. I am not sure if I can explain in English correctly, because it's not my native language.

These spinal centers are responsible for many reflexes. When the child touches the hot radiator, it moves the finger away much earlier before it notices the pain. It is called spinal arc.

These spinal arcs may be used for diagnostic also. The knee reflex you may know from an neurology examination is such example.

When the doctor hits your knee with a rubber hammer, you'll kick.
When you'll try to do that to someone, who has cerebral palsey for example, he will react much stronger.
It is because the reflex is located in the spine, but the brain can calm it down. Wit the brain motion centers damaged, the calming is weak or missing, so the reflex is stronger.
When you'll try to do that to someone, who has spine injury, you'll see no reflex probably.
When you'll try to do that to the animal with bullet in the brain, it will kick again and again, because no brain response... until it will fade.

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by JLA

So i shot him in the top of the head with a .460 rowland. Im 99% sure the bullet destroyed his brainstem and went on into his neck. His brain was most certainly dead before he hit the ground because he didnt try to breathe at all and his eyes were glassed just seconds after.

By the way, the brain-dead animal can continue to breath and heartbeat till the nerves will die.

There is "emergency" center for the the heart control and automatic breath. It is located where the spine leaves the brain. it controls the heart and the breath during the deep anesthesia for example.

[whymememe]

Originally Posted by tmaly33

Thank you for the tip and safe hunting

Was that Ted Nuggent behind the rifle?

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by whymememe

Was that Ted Nuggent behind the rifle?

I don't know him personally. He provided me one video only.

[tmaly33]

I had an experience with the female roe deer killed by car. It had her head crushed completelly an the convulsions were visible for about 6 mins, as JLA describes.

Jack,is there the horse or donkey culling season in Australia currently?

[JLA]

I aint had to put any animals down in many months thank god. But, Im glad your research continues doc.

[JLA]

Originally Posted by tmaly33

By the way, how can the grass eating horse get the botulism?
And what were the symptoms?

Vet said it was probably from bad hay. Dont know for sure.

Symptoms were stiffness and excessive slobbering, confusion, hyperventilating, uncontrollable defacation and urination, almost like his body was disconnected from his brain. My initial thought was hydrophobe (rabies), but the Vet ruled that out with a blood sample.

Behavior went on for 4 days before I put him down.

[shorter260513]

I have always heard it can be caused by moldy hay wont bother cows much but is bad for horses

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by JLA

Symptoms were stiffness and excessive slobbering, confusion, hyperventilating, uncontrollable defacation and urination, almost like his body was disconnected from his brain. My initial thought was hydrophobe (rabies), but the Vet ruled that out with a blood sample.

Here in CZ, we had no rabies case since the mid 90s. Fox vaccination seems to be the good step. They spread the bait with it from planes every year.

We got some videos for our research, but I still need more cases.

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by JLA

Vet said it was probably from bad hay. Dont know for sure.

Symptoms were stiffness and excessive slobbering, confusion, hyperventilating, uncontrollable defacation and urination, almost like his body was disconnected from his brain. My initial thought was hydrophobe (rabies), but the Vet ruled that out with a blood sample.

Behavior went on for 4 days before I put him down.

Botulotoxine suppresses any muscular activity. It is strange, because he had strong spinal response as you described. It seems to be the some kind of brain diseaseI think. Did he show the "run" like movements few minutes after the shot?

[tmaly33]

Here is the small example of brain dead animal and the clonic convulsions:

video

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by shorter260513

I have always heard it can be caused by moldy hay wont bother cows much but is bad for horses

Yes, that's truth, horses are more sensitive to many plant and bacteria toxines than cows.

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by JLA

Symptoms were stiffness and excessive slobbering, confusion, hyperventilating, uncontrollable defacation and urination, almost like his body was disconnected from his brain.

Had he some muscle twitches or palseys, before the execution?

[jack404]

we dont have a season for feral animals , you see them you shoot them but when somne breed up like camels last year and donkeys 4-5 years back the government will organise a cull , but i've not been able to get my butt organised the past 18 months , been busy building up the farm etc ..

[tmaly33]

I have read that feral donkeys are big problem now.

[tmaly33]

epileptic horse
I never saw an epileptic horse

[jack404]

yes , but the animal rights folks are blocking every hunt so the shooters cant shoot if theres trespassers


its crazy and when the droughts come again as they always do as thats the norm here , the donkeys will eat the food the natives and other animals eat and all will starve

then we'll get scenes like this

30,000 dead camels around one last water hole
15,000 roo's

5-6,0000 donkeys
and thousand s of other animals

a big roo drinks 600 ml a day

a big donkey 5 litres

a camel the same

1000 donkeys equals 8000 roo's

it stuffs the whole natural balance

see roo's slow down reproduction in hard times ,

non natives dont

.. its destroying the eco system mate

nothing less

we gotta get rid of em

but what can you do ?

[tmaly33]

Interesting picture

The imported species are always problem. We have the problem with imported weeds here in Central Europe. And with poisonous spiders too.

roos are ok, they belong to Australia, but donkeys and camels doesn't
it may cause the BIG damage to the enviroment.
I didn't know situation is so critical.