1986 automatic weapons ban unconstitutional?

[muddober]

Alpo, I really like the MP 40 Schemeisser.

Ron

[Dan01]

Put me on your ignore list......It works!

[Deacon_Man]

Now Now, you boys calm down.
Alpo, I sure like that shot-gun.

[hogger129]

Can we lock this thread?

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by muddober

Alpo, I really like the MP 40 Schemeisser.

Ron

Yeah, I figgered you would. I could tell by your name. Folks named "Ron" have great taste in guns. Ain't that right RJay?

By the way, and just so you know. While Herr Schmeisser had a lot to do with many firearms designs, he had nothing to do with the MP40. Many people call it a Schmeisser, but they are wrong.

'Course, I know of people that call a Marlin a Winchester, 'cause, heck, ain't all lever-action 30/30s Winchesters?

[muddober]

I use to have an MP 41 wood stock that resembled your MP 40 and it said Schmeisser on it. Please explain to me because I really don't know. If my memory serves me correctly I also use to have a wood stocked sheet metal type gun that fired a bottle necked cartridge that also said Schmeisser on it.

Update I just found my Srmall Arms of The World and looked up the gun in question was an MP 44 and it shot a round that looked a lot like the AK 47.

Ron

[The_Rifleman]

The Bill of Rights

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

There is no way a people can secure a free state; if the state can dictate what arms can be kept, and who bears those arms.

[JLA]

Alpo, thats straight up Mad Max style right there. I likes.

[JLA]

BTW. Im fairly sure I could kill someone easy enough with a stick. So how long before the gubment bans trees from growing? Then of course I could also just use a large rock. So how long before they damn the ground we walk on??

Point is, firearms regulation IS a second ammendment violation. Responsible people are responsible people. It doesnt matter how fast the rifles in thier closet are capable of firing. I buy guns because I love them, not because I want to murder people. And I would love for it to be legal for me to go down to the local gunshop and purchase a nice full auto G18 (only glock worth having IMO) or something similar, WITHOUT the paperwork trail or the horrendous tax stamp.. That would be cool.. I have always wanted a 1927A1 thompson.

[jack404]

heck even here in the land of gun control we can have short barrel shotguns for snake guns .. ( the gov does prefer .410's but allows 12 g too )

as for the auto stuff

in a truely free world it would be each to his own

before the gun laws changed i had
2 vicker MG's
a maxim
2 xthompsons
6 AK's and variants
2 x RPD's ( heavier MG )
a shaklin
2.johnsons
a Mp40
a early minimi
and a metal storm pistol in .33 cal

all now illegal here

but besides using the maxim on a heard of wild pig's in a shoot licenced by the government ( dept of Heritage and conservation )

none of these weapons where used for anything but re-enactments and renting them to movie makers

i had the maxim 20 something years


now look at the criminals side

a guy just out of gaol , for violent crimes , shoots a cop with a illegally obtained hand gun that by law he is not allowed to posses and he walks ??

while i can get locked up for ordering a bolt action gun part and not filing the right documents for it

gun laws are screwy globally

so lets all get on the same page

guns in the hands of decent folks is a good thing

any variation of that is a danger to all gun owners no matter their thoughts on what others should own ..

[Alpo]

The MP44. New secret weapon. They called it "MP", so Hitler would not pay attention to it. He didn't want to do new small arms-type secret weapons. He wanted to concentrate on jet planes and rockets.

Now they call it StG44 (Sturmgewehr, or "Assault rifle" 44), but I don't think anyone ever called it that until after the war was over.

According to Wiki (take that how you will) ole Hugo designed the MP18, which was, pretty much, the first German sub gun. He held a patent on the magazine for the MP38 and MP40. And he designed the MP41. I can see how people would be confused. I mean, hell, look at all the people that come here asking for info on their Smith and Wesson 32, and it's an H&R or an Iver Johnson.

[bluesea112]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Someone commented (I believe he claimed to be a cop) that no one should own a sawed-off shotgun. They only had one purpose - to stand in the doorway of a room and kill everyone in it.

As I said up the thread - everyone has an opinion.

I would have told that cop that it does not matter what a certain gun is used for, the 2nd amendment protects our right to own it. Well, at least it was suppose to.

[Alpo]

I just ignored him for as long as he stayed on the board. No sense talking to morons. You can't convince 'em. You're mostly just wasting your time.

[Jerryboy]

Originally Posted by jack404

heck even here in the land of gun control we can have short barrel shotguns for snake guns .. ( the gov does prefer .410's but allows 12 g too )

as for the auto stuff

in a truely free world it would be each to his own

before the gun laws changed i had
2 vicker MG's
a maxim
2 xthompsons
6 AK's and variants
2 x RPD's ( heavier MG )
a shaklin
2.johnsons
a Mp40
a early minimi
and a metal storm pistol in .33 cal

all now illegal here

but besides using the maxim on a heard of wild pig's in a shoot licenced by the government ( dept of Heritage and conservation )

none of these weapons where used for anything but re-enactments and renting them to movie makers

i had the maxim 20 something years


now look at the criminals side

a guy just out of gaol , for violent crimes , shoots a cop with a illegally obtained hand gun that by law he is not allowed to posses and he walks ??

while i can get locked up for ordering a bolt action gun part and not filing the right documents for it

gun laws are screwy globally

so lets all get on the same page

guns in the hands of decent folks is a good thing

any variation of that is a danger to all gun owners no matter their thoughts on what others should own ..

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!

[45Auto]

I would like to see a 'hit list' of laws to be abolished (including the full auto laws). Then, all of the pro 2nd Amendment voter get behind the list and make it happen.

[Ken W]

Originally Posted by bobski

im with dan01.


if you want it bad enough, pay for it and register it. oh wait a minute. thats what class3 do already. looks like rights arent being infringed on to me.

but being denied a permit, is another story.

I'm sorry but that's crap. With the unconstitutional way it is now it has drove up the prices on the small allotment available to us to ridiculous amounts making them out of reach for anyone other than the wealthy. This is completely unacceptable and should never have been tolerated.

Originally Posted by Jerryboy

speak for yourself! I would love to be able to go down to G.I. Joe's and pick up some 105mm shells and a couple extra fuel tubes for my RPG7, which I would have hanging on a rack over my bed.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the Right of the people to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be infringed".

as the military increases in effectiveness, so should the Militia. what if the government in the 1800s had decided that breach loading rifles were too dangerous for civillians? or lever actions? break action shotguns? revolvers?

can you imagine us, armed only with Kentucky & Hawken rifles and Brown Bess muskets going up against today's U.S. Army and government? it wouldn't matter how much we outnumbered them, we wouldn't stand a chance. the simple fact of the matter is that for The Militia to be a barrier against tyranny we need to be just as well equipped(if not necessarily trained) as the military. sure, at the current tech levels of civilian arms vs. the tech level of the military, we might would still win, but how many millions of Patriots would have to die before we were able to win our freedom back?

as the government's military technology continues to advance, and the People's continues to stagnate, those numbers will continue to increase, until, finally, the armed populace will no longer be a deterrent to a tyrannical government.

Damn straight! Could not have said it better myself. We are all now at such an extreme disadvantage that is practically at that point now where we wouldn't have a realistic chance to combat a tyrannical and corrupt government successfully.

Originally Posted by JLA

BTW. Im fairly sure I could kill someone easy enough with a stick. So how long before the gubment bans trees from growing? Then of course I could also just use a large rock. So how long before they damn the ground we walk on??

Point is, firearms regulation IS a second ammendment violation. Responsible people are responsible people. It doesnt matter how fast the rifles in thier closet are capable of firing. I buy guns because I love them, not because I want to murder people. And I would love for it to be legal for me to go down to the local gunshop and purchase a nice full auto G18 (only glock worth having IMO) or something similar, WITHOUT the paperwork trail or the horrendous tax stamp.. That would be cool.. I have always wanted a 1927A1 thompson.

I feel the exact same way. Like collecting any other objects it's the joy of both possessing them and the enjoyment using and/or displaying them. Again, with the with the current untenable situation there isn't the slightest chance I'll ever have any full auto gun.

Originally Posted by 45Auto

I would like to see a 'hit list' of laws to be abolished (including the full auto laws). Then, all of the pro 2nd Amendment voter get behind the list and make it happen.

We need to seriously do this and then actually go after them.

[jwrauch]

If you have ever read the Constitution over 90% of what govt does today is unconstitutional!! JR

[Duckboats]

Just saw this post and wanted to chime in on the National Firearms Act debate. If you guys have not read the book Unintended Consequences by John Ross, find it! Great novel with real gun history. Everyone in the gun culture should read it at least once.
This all started in 1934 with the National Firearms Act. This act was passed to regulate GUNS used by Gangsters during the Prohibition era. The Federal government employed several people to enforce Prohibition laws and were known as "Treasury Agents". When the 21st amendment passed in 1933, the Treasury Agents didn't have anything to do. Alcohol was legal to possess. Six months after the 21st amendment was passed, congress passed the NFA and made it illegal to possess certain weapons that fit into the category they defined as "gangster weapons" without registering them with the Federal Government and paying a $200 tax on them ($200 was a lot in the 30s!). Examples were SBRs, SBSs, Machine Guns (Tommy guns), silencers, and so forth. The Treasury agents were now tasked with enforcing the NFA and keeping the Registry. They became the ATF. This all came down to a court case in the U.S. Supreme Court of US v Miller. Miller was arrested for possessing a short shotgun. His case was dismissed by the US District Court and the court ruled the NFA unconstitutional. The case was appealed to the SCOTUS. Neither Miller nor his attorney showed up. The government basically deceived the court into thinking that a shotgun is not used by the military thereby it is not a military weapon and the "militia" is not allowed to have one. If Miller's attorney showed up to show that Army officers used them in WWI, we would have different case law today.
The Gun Control Act of 1968, restricted IMPORTATION of guns not used for "sporting purposes". Autos could no longer be imported into the US. It also created a licensing system to license dealers and restricted people from buying handguns in states other than their state of residence. It also created a class of citizens unable to possess firearms.
The Firearm Protection Act of 1986 amended the GCA. This included the Hughes Amendment which made any auto weapon made after May 19, 1986 illegal for civilians to own. This bill was signed into Law by Ronald Reagan. This law was lobbied by Gun Rights Activists. Some Dems in the Senate threw on the Hughes amendment and the Pro-Gun lobby didn't read the bill and pushed it through.
The constitutionality of all these acts goes back to the NFA. The argument being that as a member of the militia, which we all are, are we able to possess weapons the military can possess. The answer is, YES. The reason being that the "militia" is used to protect the Country from tyranny and the government. If the government has bigger, badder, and better guns, than the militia, then we cannot protect the Country.
The Feds are using the Interstate Commerce clause to regulate guns. Which is why you saw the great State of Montana pass their state law allowing firearms built in Montana, used in Montana, and kept in Montana exempt from Federal Regulations to include a tax stamp.
We need more States to Join that fight!!