New savage question - The Firearms Forum

jack404 · 05-17-2012, 07:45 PM

are you folks getting distinct first round drop from your new rifles?

just zero'd a scope for a gent on his new one and first round after cleaning is 2-3" low @ 200 but the next shot always perfect

reload and its still good , clean it and first shot is low again ..

this common ? ( not the tightest chamber )

gvw3 · 05-17-2012, 08:11 PM

Not from my rifles but my Beretta 9 mil will do this every time.

jack404 · 05-18-2012, 08:40 AM

heres the target

the three slight high right are the test group after the first shot which is below them

5th round was after a adjustment to the scope to bring it home , i put another 5 round through the 9 and 10 with no effort, very nice shooter

i repeated this 3 times , clean the thing and first shot is low after that its good to go

i had a anny like this but no where as near as noticable

customers happy he's happy to fire a test shot and have a tack driver after

this target was shot at 50 meters

CJ_56 · 05-18-2012, 12:30 PM

I get that from my rimfire Savage. I get it from several rifles actually. I've always thought it was just something that happens with rifles. The trick is to know where to aim the first shot. Or to shoot and warm up the barrel if you're target shooting. Or have a rifle that shoots the same POI when it's cold as when it's warm.

New rifles do seem to be worse about such things. But my Savage 12 LRPV shoots right on the money on the first shot and it has since I first bought it. And I bought it when it had about 5 rounds fired through it. But my Savage 110 will shoot off some on a cold bore. Not as much as my rimfire though. That rimfire will miss 2" at 50 yards with a cold bore but it always hits the same spot when it's cold. And it takes it about 3 shots to really get where it will hit the same spot consistently. It shoots the same POI after that for about 10-15 rounds and then it needs to cool.

JLA · 05-18-2012, 08:21 PM

I get it here too Jack. The clean bore doesnt quite produce the same chamber pressures or velocity as the foulded bore shots do. therefore the cleanbore round hits a tad lower. And the smoother the bore is the more drastic the drop is. Thats why deer hunters usually sight in for a cold clean shot and P dog hunters sight in with a hot dirty bore.

jack404 · 05-18-2012, 08:38 PM

i've set this up as a bench shooter for the gent , he's ok with the test shot

just not seen one so pronounced as this

the micro groove barrel probably dont help either

but even today he's shot it and loves it

guess i'm more worried than the customer ( again)

mark olindale · 05-18-2012, 10:05 PM

Some people are reporting a change in POI and group size from one magazine to another.. The thought is the spring tension and lip configuration play a roll in the amount of force on the undeside of the bolt causing some difference.

With the 5 round magazines many report a consistent 3 and 2 pattern. Three shots grouped tightly and then another two offset and also fairly tight. Some people report just the first round off from the other four with the grouped four being very tight.

One school of thought is the first round is stripped using just the manual retraction and release of the bolt. The rest being stripped by the gas system propelled movement of the bolt. And this causes a change in the flight path in some way.

H-D · 05-18-2012, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark olindale

Some people are reporting a change in POI and group size from one magazine to another.. The thought is the spring tension and lip configuration play a roll in the amount of force on the undeside of the bolt causing some difference.

With the 5 round magazines many report a consistent 3 and 2 pattern. Three shots grouped tightly and then another two offset and also fairly tight. Some people report just the first round off from the other four with the grouped four being very tight.

One school of thought is the first round is stripped using just the manual retraction and release of the bolt. The rest being stripped by the gas system propelled movement of the bolt. And this causes a change in the flight path in some way.

I think the rifle in question is a bolt action

jack404 · 05-18-2012, 10:51 PM

yeah pretty much only bolters here this state

this ones a model 12 bench rest model but in .22 LR, SSAA folks made a group order of 30 and they got here couple months back

and i've tossed on

EP Zoom scope

http://marchscopes.com.au/ep-zoom-36-55-x-52.html

05-17-2012, 07:45 PM	#1
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	New savage question are you folks getting distinct first round drop from your new rifles? just zero'd a scope for a gent on his new one and first round after cleaning is 2-3" low @ 200 but the next shot always perfect reload and its still good , clean it and first shot is low again .. this common ? ( not the tightest chamber ) -->

05-17-2012, 08:11 PM	#2
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,273	Re: New savage question Not from my rifles but my Beretta 9 mil will do this every time. __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.

05-18-2012, 08:40 AM	#3
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New savage question heres the target the three slight high right are the test group after the first shot which is below them 5th round was after a adjustment to the scope to bring it home , i put another 5 round through the 9 and 10 with no effort, very nice shooter i repeated this 3 times , clean the thing and first shot is low after that its good to go i had a anny like this but no where as near as noticable customers happy he's happy to fire a test shot and have a tack driver after this target was shot at 50 meters Attached Images Last edited by jack404; 05-18-2012 at 08:42 AM..

05-18-2012, 12:30 PM	#4
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: New savage question I get that from my rimfire Savage. I get it from several rifles actually. I've always thought it was just something that happens with rifles. The trick is to know where to aim the first shot. Or to shoot and warm up the barrel if you're target shooting. Or have a rifle that shoots the same POI when it's cold as when it's warm. New rifles do seem to be worse about such things. But my Savage 12 LRPV shoots right on the money on the first shot and it has since I first bought it. And I bought it when it had about 5 rounds fired through it. But my Savage 110 will shoot off some on a cold bore. Not as much as my rimfire though. That rimfire will miss 2" at 50 yards with a cold bore but it always hits the same spot when it's cold. And it takes it about 3 shots to really get where it will hit the same spot consistently. It shoots the same POI after that for about 10-15 rounds and then it needs to cool.

05-18-2012, 08:21 PM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,310	Re: New savage question I get it here too Jack. The clean bore doesnt quite produce the same chamber pressures or velocity as the foulded bore shots do. therefore the cleanbore round hits a tad lower. And the smoother the bore is the more drastic the drop is. Thats why deer hunters usually sight in for a cold clean shot and P dog hunters sight in with a hot dirty bore. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

05-18-2012, 08:38 PM	#6
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New savage question i've set this up as a bench shooter for the gent , he's ok with the test shot just not seen one so pronounced as this the micro groove barrel probably dont help either but even today he's shot it and loves it guess i'm more worried than the customer ( again)

05-18-2012, 10:05 PM	#7
mark olindale Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 10	Re: New savage question Some people are reporting a change in POI and group size from one magazine to another.. The thought is the spring tension and lip configuration play a roll in the amount of force on the undeside of the bolt causing some difference. With the 5 round magazines many report a consistent 3 and 2 pattern. Three shots grouped tightly and then another two offset and also fairly tight. Some people report just the first round off from the other four with the grouped four being very tight. One school of thought is the first round is stripped using just the manual retraction and release of the bolt. The rest being stripped by the gas system propelled movement of the bolt. And this causes a change in the flight path in some way.

05-18-2012, 10:51 PM	#9
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New savage question yeah pretty much only bolters here this state this ones a model 12 bench rest model but in .22 LR, SSAA folks made a group order of 30 and they got here couple months back and i've tossed on EP Zoom scope http://marchscopes.com.au/ep-zoom-36-55-x-52.html Last edited by jack404; 05-18-2012 at 11:07 PM..