COLT D.A. 38 ?

audor · 09-15-2007, 12:50 AM

I am trying to find out everything I can about this: year manufactured, civilian/police/military (branch), type of round, and any other information you may have. It was a gift from my Grandfather, a gift to him from his uncle and something I plan to keep for a long time. I'd also appreciate any advice on preserving it, removing corrosion, and can it still be fired?

Markings:

Top of Barrel:
COLT'S PT F.A. MFG CO HARTFORD CT U.S.A.
PATENTED AUG.5.1884 NOV.6.88. MAR.5.95.

Side of Barrel:
COLT D.A. 38

Trigger guard:
Star with "I" in the middle

Chamber release lever:
Star with "I" in the middle
With the numbers 1689 below the star (I assume serial #)

Inside of arm holding the chamber (only visible with chamber open):
Star with "I" in the middle and 1689

Body underneath the arm (only visible with chamber open):
1689

COLT molded in grip

There are no other marking.

Xracer · 09-15-2007, 06:56 AM

Hi audor......welcome to TFF.

What a neat old Colt!

Got two questions:

Are there any markings on the butt of the gun?

Looking from the rear of the gun (thru the sights), when you cock the hammer, does the cylinder revolve to the right (clockwise), or left (counterclockwise)?

audor · 09-15-2007, 08:02 AM

Now that you mention it, I can see the faint outline of numbers in the butt, but they are illegible. The cylinder rotates counterclockwise.

Xracer · 09-15-2007, 11:12 AM

OK.....that nails it down.

What you have is the Model 1895 New Army and Navy. Yours is the civilian version.

Those numbers on the butt are the serial #. I'd need that to tell you the manufacture date. The 1689 numbers are assembly numbers.

The caliber is .38 Colt.....NOT .38 Smith & Wesson or .38 Special. .38 Colt is no longer made by the major manufacturers, but is loaded by some of the "Cowboy Action" ammo makers such as Black Hills Ammunition: http://www.black-hills.com/cowboy.htm

CAUTION: If you plan to shoot this fine old gun, please have it checked out by a gunsmith to make sure it's safe to shoot!

To clean the barrel & cylinder, do as you would do with a modern gun.

To clean up the surface rust, get some 0000 steel wool and some good gun oil (such as Hoppe's or Rem Oil), put some oil on the steel wool, and very lightly go over the rusty spots. Do a little at a time, then wipe the gun down with a soft rag (old tee shirts work great)....make sure you're not taking any of the bluing off. When you've removed most of the rust, just give the whole exterior of the gun wipedown with a light coat of gun oil.

If the interior lockwork needs cleaning & lubrication (and it probably does), best leave that to the gunsmith.

That's a fine old Colt you have there.....have fun!

Boone · 11-13-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

OK.....that nails it down.

What you have is the Model 1895 New Army and Navy. Yours is the civilian version.

Those numbers on the butt are the serial #. I'd need that to tell you the manufacture date. The 1689 numbers are assembly numbers.

The caliber is .38 Colt.....NOT .38 Smith & Wesson or .38 Special. .38 Colt is no longer made by the major manufacturers, but is loaded by some of the "Cowboy Action" ammo makers such as Black Hills Ammunition: http://www.black-hills.com/cowboy.htm

CAUTION: If you plan to shoot this fine old gun, please have it checked out by a gunsmith to make sure it's safe to shoot!

To clean the barrel & cylinder, do as you would do with a modern gun.

To clean up the surface rust, get some 0000 steel wool and some good gun oil (such as Hoppe's or Rem Oil), put some oil on the steel wool, and very lightly go over the rusty spots. Do a little at a time, then wipe the gun down with a soft rag (old tee shirts work great)....make sure you're not taking any of the bluing off. When you've removed most of the rust, just give the whole exterior of the gun wipedown with a light coat of gun oil.

If the interior lockwork needs cleaning & lubrication (and it probably does), best leave that to the gunsmith.

That's a fine old Colt you have there.....have fun!

LogicalSon · 06-14-2012, 11:10 PM

I have a Colt 38 D. A. that has two patent dates on the top of the gun. Those dates are Aug. 5, 1884 & Nov. 6, 1888. The cylinder rotates counter-clockwise and there are no cylinder notches. The serial number on the butt is 20-076. This gun was issued to my Great-Great Uncle Walter Coffey who worked for the rail road. I have 29 bullets that were with the gun when my Grandmother gave it to me. The bullets say they are 38 long REM-UMC. I would love to hear any information you can tell me about this gun as far as manufacture date, value or any history. When ever I search the internet or at gunshows, I see guns that are similar but never exactly like mine. Thanks for your help.

Lanrezac · 06-15-2012, 12:45 AM

Colt's early swing-out cylinder revolvers had a variety of problems, so the design was changed often in the first few years of production.

The power of Colt's name at the time was enough to gain public acceptance anyway, and even the US Army adopted the design while it was still in the process of evolution.

Your gun does have cylinder locking notches, for instance - they are just in the rear face of the cylinder, along with the cylinder ratchet. This was a dubious feature carried over from Colt's earlier double action revolvers.

The history of these guns is quite involved, and I don't know it off the top of my head. Colts are so popular that there are certain to be books that have the whole story, and people here who either know it or know what the books are. Welcome to the Forum!

BTW, those same people would probably like to see pictures of your gun, and would be able to tell you more about it from them.

LogicalSon · 06-15-2012, 01:31 PM

Thanks for your help! I'll post some pictures tonight or tomorrow morning.

Jim K · 06-15-2012, 03:06 PM

"Your gun does have cylinder locking notches, for instance - they are just in the rear face of the cylinder..."

Not really. The Colt New Navy of 1889 has no cylinder locking notches anywhere; the cylinder was locked by the hand, same as the Model 1878 New Double Action (sometimes called the New Double Action Frontier).

Jim

Lanrezac · 06-15-2012, 04:54 PM

Oh, darn. I thought it was like the Colt "Lightning". I had just seen a picture of the cylinder-rear locking notches on one of those. Sorry, LogicalSon. I guess free advice is worth what you pay for it.

LogicalSon · 06-16-2012, 11:02 AM

Here are the pics of my Colt DA 38

Jim K · 06-16-2012, 07:05 PM

Boy, talk about "rode hard and put away wet"! That is a civilian gun, not a Navy contract, but it sure has been around and about. Due to the condition, it is not of high value ($400 or so, maybe) but they are interesting guns. Most of the Navy contract guns were called in and returned to Colt for conversion to the later configuration with the double cylinder locking notches; as a civilian gun, that one was not converted.

Those revolvers had a rebounding hammer, but no means of keeping the cylinder from rotating when the hammer was down, a major defect in design, since it meant that the cylinder could turn when holstered after firing, not a condition desirable in a military revolver. That necessitated the later conversions.

About 31,000 were made, of which the first 5000 went to the Navy. Ejector rod heads and repro grips are available, but I would leave that one just as it is. The cartridge was the .38 Long Colt, the same cartridge case diameter as the modern .38 Special, but .38 Special will not fit in those early guns and should not be fired in them anyway.

Jim

Slowhand · 06-17-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanrezac

Oh, darn. I thought it was like the Colt "Lightning". I had just seen a picture of the cylinder-rear locking notches on one of those. Sorry, LogicalSon. I guess free advice is worth what you pay for it.

Here's a 1877 Colt Thunderer, 41 Caliber. The Colt being discussed in a much later production type.

dartswinger · 06-17-2012, 05:06 PM

This poster mentions markings of a star with an I inside it, can someone tell me what this marking is as I have a S&W M1899 USN marked .38LC with these markings on the cylinder, under the bbl. and on the frame visible only when cyl. is swung out. I have an NRA letter dating my gun to 1900 and saying that star and I indicates return to factory for work, that; however, couldn't possibly apply to this mans Colt. What is this marking???

LogicalSon · 06-17-2012, 09:32 PM

Thanks for the info Jim. Do you think the year of manufacture is 1889 or so? This gun was carried by my relative everyday. I think that is the reason for the shabby condition. I have his shoulder holster and the ammo. I'm thinking about making a display of some sort and mounting it on my wall. I'm looking for as much info about this gun as possible to ad to my display.

Jim K · 06-18-2012, 06:34 PM

Wilson's book says they started 1892 with 17100 and 1893 with 23500, so New Navy # 20076 would probably date to mid-1892. Colt continued to produce those guns even after the Army adopted the improved model in 1892; they did upgrade Model 1889 frames still in the factory to the new configuration, though, and those lasted until around 1894.

On the star with an I inside, note that the original post (from 2007) is about a different gun, a Navy contract gun of a later date than the one owned by LogicalSon. The star with an I inside was a Navy inspector's or sub-inspector's mark, but the name of the individual is not known. Other known Navy inspectors' marks are star/C (A. P. Casey) and star/W, also unknown.

Jim

09-15-2007, 12:50 AM	#1
audor Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2	COLT D.A. 38 ? I am trying to find out everything I can about this: year manufactured, civilian/police/military (branch), type of round, and any other information you may have. It was a gift from my Grandfather, a gift to him from his uncle and something I plan to keep for a long time. I'd also appreciate any advice on preserving it, removing corrosion, and can it still be fired? Markings: Top of Barrel: COLT'S PT F.A. MFG CO HARTFORD CT U.S.A. PATENTED AUG.5.1884 NOV.6.88. MAR.5.95. Side of Barrel: COLT D.A. 38 Trigger guard: Star with "I" in the middle Chamber release lever: Star with "I" in the middle With the numbers 1689 below the star (I assume serial #) Inside of arm holding the chamber (only visible with chamber open): Star with "I" in the middle and 1689 Body underneath the arm (only visible with chamber open): 1689 COLT molded in grip There are no other marking. Attached Images -->

09-15-2007, 06:56 AM	#2
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Hi audor......welcome to TFF. What a neat old Colt! Got two questions: Are there any markings on the butt of the gun? Looking from the rear of the gun (thru the sights), when you cock the hammer, does the cylinder revolve to the right (clockwise), or left (counterclockwise)?

09-15-2007, 08:02 AM	#3
audor Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Now that you mention it, I can see the faint outline of numbers in the butt, but they are illegible. The cylinder rotates counterclockwise.

09-15-2007, 11:12 AM	#4
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? OK.....that nails it down. What you have is the Model 1895 New Army and Navy. Yours is the civilian version. Those numbers on the butt are the serial #. I'd need that to tell you the manufacture date. The 1689 numbers are assembly numbers. The caliber is .38 Colt.....NOT .38 Smith & Wesson or .38 Special. .38 Colt is no longer made by the major manufacturers, but is loaded by some of the "Cowboy Action" ammo makers such as Black Hills Ammunition: http://www.black-hills.com/cowboy.htm CAUTION: If you plan to shoot this fine old gun, please have it checked out by a gunsmith to make sure it's safe to shoot! To clean the barrel & cylinder, do as you would do with a modern gun. To clean up the surface rust, get some 0000 steel wool and some good gun oil (such as Hoppe's or Rem Oil), put some oil on the steel wool, and very lightly go over the rusty spots. Do a little at a time, then wipe the gun down with a soft rag (old tee shirts work great)....make sure you're not taking any of the bluing off. When you've removed most of the rust, just give the whole exterior of the gun wipedown with a light coat of gun oil. If the interior lockwork needs cleaning & lubrication (and it probably does), best leave that to the gunsmith. That's a fine old Colt you have there.....have fun!

06-14-2012, 11:10 PM	#6
LogicalSon Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 8	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? I have a Colt 38 D. A. that has two patent dates on the top of the gun. Those dates are Aug. 5, 1884 & Nov. 6, 1888. The cylinder rotates counter-clockwise and there are no cylinder notches. The serial number on the butt is 20-076. This gun was issued to my Great-Great Uncle Walter Coffey who worked for the rail road. I have 29 bullets that were with the gun when my Grandmother gave it to me. The bullets say they are 38 long REM-UMC. I would love to hear any information you can tell me about this gun as far as manufacture date, value or any history. When ever I search the internet or at gunshows, I see guns that are similar but never exactly like mine. Thanks for your help.

06-15-2012, 12:45 AM	#7
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 685	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Colt's early swing-out cylinder revolvers had a variety of problems, so the design was changed often in the first few years of production. The power of Colt's name at the time was enough to gain public acceptance anyway, and even the US Army adopted the design while it was still in the process of evolution. Your gun does have cylinder locking notches, for instance - they are just in the rear face of the cylinder, along with the cylinder ratchet. This was a dubious feature carried over from Colt's earlier double action revolvers. The history of these guns is quite involved, and I don't know it off the top of my head. Colts are so popular that there are certain to be books that have the whole story, and people here who either know it or know what the books are. Welcome to the Forum! BTW, those same people would probably like to see pictures of your gun, and would be able to tell you more about it from them.

06-15-2012, 01:31 PM	#8
LogicalSon Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 8	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Thanks for your help! I'll post some pictures tonight or tomorrow morning.

06-15-2012, 03:06 PM	#9
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? "Your gun does have cylinder locking notches, for instance - they are just in the rear face of the cylinder..." Not really. The Colt New Navy of 1889 has no cylinder locking notches anywhere; the cylinder was locked by the hand, same as the Model 1878 New Double Action (sometimes called the New Double Action Frontier). Jim

06-15-2012, 04:54 PM	#10
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 685	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Oh, darn. I thought it was like the Colt "Lightning". I had just seen a picture of the cylinder-rear locking notches on one of those. Sorry, LogicalSon. I guess free advice is worth what you pay for it.

06-16-2012, 11:02 AM	#11
LogicalSon Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 8	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Here are the pics of my Colt DA 38 Attached Images

06-16-2012, 07:05 PM	#12
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Boy, talk about "rode hard and put away wet"! That is a civilian gun, not a Navy contract, but it sure has been around and about. Due to the condition, it is not of high value ($400 or so, maybe) but they are interesting guns. Most of the Navy contract guns were called in and returned to Colt for conversion to the later configuration with the double cylinder locking notches; as a civilian gun, that one was not converted. Those revolvers had a rebounding hammer, but no means of keeping the cylinder from rotating when the hammer was down, a major defect in design, since it meant that the cylinder could turn when holstered after firing, not a condition desirable in a military revolver. That necessitated the later conversions. About 31,000 were made, of which the first 5000 went to the Navy. Ejector rod heads and repro grips are available, but I would leave that one just as it is. The cartridge was the .38 Long Colt, the same cartridge case diameter as the modern .38 Special, but .38 Special will not fit in those early guns and should not be fired in them anyway. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 06-16-2012 at 07:22 PM..

06-17-2012, 05:06 PM	#14
dartswinger V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SE Pa. Posts: 147	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? This poster mentions markings of a star with an I inside it, can someone tell me what this marking is as I have a S&W M1899 USN marked .38LC with these markings on the cylinder, under the bbl. and on the frame visible only when cyl. is swung out. I have an NRA letter dating my gun to 1900 and saying that star and I indicates return to factory for work, that; however, couldn't possibly apply to this mans Colt. What is this marking???

06-17-2012, 09:32 PM	#15
LogicalSon Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 8	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Thanks for the info Jim. Do you think the year of manufacture is 1889 or so? This gun was carried by my relative everyday. I think that is the reason for the shabby condition. I have his shoulder holster and the ammo. I'm thinking about making a display of some sort and mounting it on my wall. I'm looking for as much info about this gun as possible to ad to my display.

06-18-2012, 06:34 PM	#16
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: COLT D.A. 38 ? Wilson's book says they started 1892 with 17100 and 1893 with 23500, so New Navy # 20076 would probably date to mid-1892. Colt continued to produce those guns even after the Army adopted the improved model in 1892; they did upgrade Model 1889 frames still in the factory to the new configuration, though, and those lasted until around 1894. On the star with an I inside, note that the original post (from 2007) is about a different gun, a Navy contract gun of a later date than the one owned by LogicalSon. The star with an I inside was a Navy inspector's or sub-inspector's mark, but the name of the individual is not known. Other known Navy inspectors' marks are star/C (A. P. Casey) and star/W, also unknown. Jim