Himmler Presentation Pistol - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

reinhard · 06-26-2011, 05:57 PM

the Motor magazine from november 1942 said it was called peep because it was a reconnaisance vehicle

SSMN · 06-26-2011, 06:06 PM

Regarding the machinegun on his Peep, yes of course it was loaded. You can see about six inches of empty belt. They fed from the left side. As for prisoners, it was common practice to place them on the hood where they could be observed. The only other place to transport them would have been beside you or behind you. Not good.

Here is another pic, showing several feet of expended belt after being strafed. Please note the inscription from the back of the photo.

Just noticed photo inscriptions do not show up. It said"Towhead got in some good shooting at a Jerry plane. Note half empty ammo belt. Strafed a few minutes before".

Jim K · 06-26-2011, 07:12 PM

"Please don’t doubt me on things like this..."

Gee, wouldn't think of it. I just spoke of my own experience and I am sure that in your vast book knowledge you will find many things to prove the rest of us ignorant.

Jim

SSMN · 06-26-2011, 07:42 PM

Inscription on back. "Looking back over our column. Bazooka on our maint. truck. Mar 1945.

deadin · 06-26-2011, 08:04 PM

Just to stir the pot a little.......

'Jeep vs Peep'
In the UK at any rate, there seemed to be a determined effort to call the jeep the 'peep'. The term Jeep was apparently used to refer to the Dodge command car.

The 'Motor' Magazine of November 25th 1942 said " It was called the Peep because it was a reconnaissance vehicle. The newspapers called it the Jeep, but goodness knows why. The latter name has been given to a larger four wheel drive vehicle."

So it looks like it depends on whether you were a Brit or a Yank....

(As an aside.... Talk about thread drift...

)

permafrost · 06-26-2011, 08:31 PM

Definitely a Jeep over here . Some say because of the GP abbreviation,(General Purpose) vehicle. Others say from the little cartoon character in the old "Popeye" cartoons popular at the time. Take your pick.

SSMN · 06-26-2011, 08:41 PM

Deadin...You're absolutely right about thread drift. I will try to do better and refrain from posting when the OP subject is lost.

JimK...I am happy to defer to you and your wide ranging knowledge in most area of guns and gun collecting. I have little knowledge in most areas compared to you and happy to admit that. I am perfectly happy to admit my ignorance. But in some narrow specific areas where I feel that I can contribute and possibly aid in the growth of collective knowledge, I will continue to do so.

Jim K · 06-26-2011, 09:43 PM

Hi, SSMN,

I do respect your knowledge, but while you may not have meant it that way, your comment came over to me as "don't dare question me, I know everything." In any case, my remark was an over-reaction.

We forget that WWII was really a world war. GI's in one area often had names for things that were unknown or unused in other areas or at other times. (I know I had names for the jeeps I had that I would not repeat here.) For that reason, the use of a term does not necessarily mean it was universally used, so while memoirs might well reflect the writer's usage, they don't always reflect usage by the whole army.

Let's let this go, the thread has not only drifted, it ran aground a long time ago.

Jim

permafrost · 06-26-2011, 09:50 PM

SSMN,
You are correct about thread drift, however your pictures are extremely interesting. If you care to start a thread with them, I.m sure it would be well recieved. PF

Jim Hauff · 06-26-2011, 10:19 PM

SSMN,
I second that (permafrost's) motion...Keep it going.

SSMN · 06-26-2011, 10:43 PM

I would be happy to do that. Where within TFF would be the appropriate place to do so?

permafrost · 06-27-2011, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSMN

I would be happy to do that. Where within TFF would be the appropriate place to do so?

I think the" General Military Arms and History Forum" would work well.

micromontenegro · 06-28-2011, 07:52 AM

Wow, I came back here to read more about those PPs and now don't know if to call my M38 a Jeep or a Peep. Thanks for this most interesting thread, folks! Things like these keep me coming back.

obededom · 06-15-2012, 05:02 PM

I know I am new here but in going with this thread. I would like to make some humble observations if I may please thank you. I believe it was Jim K earlier in this thread who asked whether or not there were capture papers with this gun. Number 2 in some cases capture papers wern't exactly given during this era in history ( they were but because most soldiers could break a pistol down and bring it home in their duffle bags. In other words they would sneak them out. 2 as I am new to this forum I am not sure whether or not I can list this in this way. If not PLEASE forgive me in advance. I have a copy of "Standard catalog of military firearms collectors ref. 6th edition. Phillip Peterson author. pg 143 bottom left, they were made by J P Sauer and Sohn please see description and in pristine shape they go for 20k. So it is with all due respect that I doubt the authenticity of this piece.

news1214 · 06-17-2012, 05:31 PM

we have ppk that my gpa had from ww2 it has 2 large ss and u hanging on them black grips it hs been reblued and has like etched 4 digit # on the side it has an H in the barrel and 1 4 and 8 the stamps were wired out.
any idea what this could be worth please?

please email us at missi1214@gmail.com

Lanrezac · 06-17-2012, 05:57 PM

news1214, your pistol is probably not a Walther PPK. The "S u S" on the grips is the trademark of Sauer und Sohne (Sauer and Sons), a German company that made over 250,000 pistols for the German army and police during the Second World War.

The most common pistol they made during the war was the model 38H. (It is not related to the Walther P-38 either). The 38H uses ammunition called 7.65mm Browning in Europe. In this country, it is called 32 Automatic or 32 ACP.

We recently had a thread about the Sauer 38H that you may find useful:

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?p=938102

There are links in that thread that will tell you more about that pistol. The thread is called "Seeking information on German luger", but this pistol has nothing to do with the Luger either. HTH!

06-26-2011, 05:57 PM	#51
reinhard V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 202	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol the Motor magazine from november 1942 said it was called peep because it was a reconnaisance vehicle

06-26-2011, 06:06 PM	#52
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 508	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Regarding the machinegun on his Peep, yes of course it was loaded. You can see about six inches of empty belt. They fed from the left side. As for prisoners, it was common practice to place them on the hood where they could be observed. The only other place to transport them would have been beside you or behind you. Not good. Here is another pic, showing several feet of expended belt after being strafed. Please note the inscription from the back of the photo. Just noticed photo inscriptions do not show up. It said"Towhead got in some good shooting at a Jerry plane. Note half empty ammo belt. Strafed a few minutes before". Attached Images Last edited by SSMN; 06-26-2011 at 07:46 PM..

06-26-2011, 07:12 PM	#53
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol "Please don’t doubt me on things like this..." Gee, wouldn't think of it. I just spoke of my own experience and I am sure that in your vast book knowledge you will find many things to prove the rest of us ignorant. Jim

06-26-2011, 07:42 PM	#54
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 508	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Inscription on back. "Looking back over our column. Bazooka on our maint. truck. Mar 1945. Attached Images

06-26-2011, 08:04 PM	#55
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 867	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Just to stir the pot a little....... 'Jeep vs Peep' In the UK at any rate, there seemed to be a determined effort to call the jeep the 'peep'. The term Jeep was apparently used to refer to the Dodge command car. The 'Motor' Magazine of November 25th 1942 said " It was called the Peep because it was a reconnaissance vehicle. The newspapers called it the Jeep, but goodness knows why. The latter name has been given to a larger four wheel drive vehicle." So it looks like it depends on whether you were a Brit or a Yank.... (As an aside.... Talk about thread drift...)

06-26-2011, 08:31 PM	#56
permafrost Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oklahoma, USA Contributor Posts: 1,777	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Definitely a Jeep over here . Some say because of the GP abbreviation,(General Purpose) vehicle. Others say from the little cartoon character in the old "Popeye" cartoons popular at the time. Take your pick. __________________ Stand and Fight

06-26-2011, 08:41 PM	#57
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 508	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Deadin...You're absolutely right about thread drift. I will try to do better and refrain from posting when the OP subject is lost. JimK...I am happy to defer to you and your wide ranging knowledge in most area of guns and gun collecting. I have little knowledge in most areas compared to you and happy to admit that. I am perfectly happy to admit my ignorance. But in some narrow specific areas where I feel that I can contribute and possibly aid in the growth of collective knowledge, I will continue to do so.

06-26-2011, 09:43 PM	#58
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Hi, SSMN, I do respect your knowledge, but while you may not have meant it that way, your comment came over to me as "don't dare question me, I know everything." In any case, my remark was an over-reaction. We forget that WWII was really a world war. GI's in one area often had names for things that were unknown or unused in other areas or at other times. (I know I had names for the jeeps I had that I would not repeat here.) For that reason, the use of a term does not necessarily mean it was universally used, so while memoirs might well reflect the writer's usage, they don't always reflect usage by the whole army. Let's let this go, the thread has not only drifted, it ran aground a long time ago. Jim

06-26-2011, 09:50 PM	#59
permafrost Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oklahoma, USA Contributor Posts: 1,777	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol SSMN, You are correct about thread drift, however your pictures are extremely interesting. If you care to start a thread with them, I.m sure it would be well recieved. PF __________________ Stand and Fight

06-26-2011, 10:19 PM	#60
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol SSMN, I second that (permafrost's) motion...Keep it going. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

06-26-2011, 10:43 PM	#61
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 508	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol I would be happy to do that. Where within TFF would be the appropriate place to do so?

06-28-2011, 07:52 AM	#63
micromontenegro V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 64	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol Wow, I came back here to read more about those PPs and now don't know if to call my M38 a Jeep or a Peep. Thanks for this most interesting thread, folks! Things like these keep me coming back.

06-15-2012, 05:02 PM	#64
obededom Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol I know I am new here but in going with this thread. I would like to make some humble observations if I may please thank you. I believe it was Jim K earlier in this thread who asked whether or not there were capture papers with this gun. Number 2 in some cases capture papers wern't exactly given during this era in history ( they were but because most soldiers could break a pistol down and bring it home in their duffle bags. In other words they would sneak them out. 2 as I am new to this forum I am not sure whether or not I can list this in this way. If not PLEASE forgive me in advance. I have a copy of "Standard catalog of military firearms collectors ref. 6th edition. Phillip Peterson author. pg 143 bottom left, they were made by J P Sauer and Sohn please see description and in pristine shape they go for 20k. So it is with all due respect that I doubt the authenticity of this piece.

06-17-2012, 05:31 PM	#65
news1214 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol we have ppk that my gpa had from ww2 it has 2 large ss and u hanging on them black grips it hs been reblued and has like etched 4 digit # on the side it has an H in the barrel and 1 4 and 8 the stamps were wired out. any idea what this could be worth please? please email us at missi1214@gmail.com

06-17-2012, 05:57 PM	#66
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 699	Re: Himmler Presentation Pistol news1214, your pistol is probably not a Walther PPK. The "S u S" on the grips is the trademark of Sauer und Sohne (Sauer and Sons), a German company that made over 250,000 pistols for the German army and police during the Second World War. The most common pistol they made during the war was the model 38H. (It is not related to the Walther P-38 either). The 38H uses ammunition called 7.65mm Browning in Europe. In this country, it is called 32 Automatic or 32 ACP. We recently had a thread about the Sauer 38H that you may find useful: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?p=938102 There are links in that thread that will tell you more about that pistol. The thread is called "Seeking information on German luger", but this pistol has nothing to do with the Luger either. HTH!