Thoughts on a .40 cal

[Insulation Tim]

I'm getting that itch again to add to the collection. I realized that I have a handgun, revolve or auto in about every caliber save for the 40.

Went shopping yesterday and liked the feel of some Rugers but the sales guy (and this IS a good store) was very candid and negative about the 40's. He hates them. Big recoil, hard on the weapon, no advantages over the 9mm. He showed me their used gun section and pointed out that the majority of trade-ins were 40's. People buy them; shoot them; get rid of them.

What do you guys think of all of this?

Thanks,

[ozo]

I will shoot anything......but....
this may be biased somewhat 'cause I'm a revolver guy mainly.
I prefer revolvers for the dependability, although the best argument is
a semi-auto has more rounds and reloads faster......
all that being said......I am only really concerned with my first two shots
placed properly....or even the first.
Caliber wise though, my absolute last choice in a semi-auto is a .40
and only because statistics show they repeatedly malfunction more
than any other. Why????? Don't know. A plan doesn't always come together.
There are so many tried-and-true rounds available, and being finnicky,
I prefer to stick with ones I trust and have a great track record in multiple mfg's
arms and designs, like a 9mm or .45acp so to say.....[semi-autos]

[RunningOnMT]

The 40mm might kick a bit too much. Last one I saw was mounted on a ship. Now, the .40 cal is a bit different.

I once owned a Springfield Armory XD 40. To be honest I couldn't hit squat with it. I traded in on a 1911. The .45 acp is my favorite caliber for both accuracy AND effectiveness. I recently bought my first 9mm and I gotta tell you I'm impressed. I don't think a person is undergunned one bit with a 9mm either.

Of course the .40 cal is extremely popular these days, largely due to so many law enbforcemet agencies, like the FBI switching to them. The only advantage I can see in the .40 is a bit longer range than the .45.

The bottom line for me is it would seem the .40 wss designed to fill a gap that wasn't there. Actually it was the result of FBI complaints about the recoil of the 10mm effecting the speed of follow up shots. If iI felt I needed a more potent round than the 9mm, .357 mag, or .45, the 10 would be my choice.

[Lanrezac]

deleted - redundant

[ozo]

"I" knew what Tim meant......come on, be nice......

[ozo]

I see nothing wrong with a 9mm,
in fact, my favorite semi-auto is my S&W 5906
[makes my Kimber look like a fool]

[Brass Tacks]

thought the OP was talking about a grenade launcher

[Alpo]

Yeah, I wasn't thinking Bofors, I was thinking bloop-gun, with the shoulder stock removed.

Might be fun, but would probably get expensive to shoot, since each round would have that pesky 200 dollar tax on it.

[yetiman]

I got to shoot a neighbors Sig on Saturday. I couldn't tell much about it as I only shot 8 rounds but I was able to hit the metal squares I was shooting at. If I didn't own one and wanted one......why not?

[Ledslnger]

Originally Posted by ozo

I see nothing wrong with a 9mm,
in fact, my favorite semi-auto is my S&W 5906
[makes my Kimber look like a fool]

From my experience, lots of stuff makes Kimber pistols look like a fool. It doesn't shock me that a S&W does. Their rifles sure are great though. But, some companies should just stay with what they are good at. Volvo makes good cars, but their construction equipment seems to suck. Kimber should just stick with rifles.

.40 is supposed to be the best of both worlds. The heavier hit reminiscent of the .45 and the higher capacity mags of the 9mm. I like the .40 round much better than the .45 actually. Cheaper to shoot, more shots, and just as accurate and many people say it is more accurate.

[3/2 STA SS]

I loved my M203-especially when using H.E.D.P. rounds...now as for a .40- I would go CZ. Built like a tank and should last for generations.

[pkcgbifaid]

I had a Sig 229 in .40 that I wish I never got rid of. It managed the 40's recoil better than most 40 cal guns I have fired.

That being said, when I am looking at semi-autos I am usually looking exclusively at 9mm or 45 ACP. Can't really say there is even a concious decision behind it... those just seem to be what I am drawn to.

[zachp]

I really enjoy my Springfield XD subcompact. It really gives the best of 3 worlds, it has a harder hit than the 9mm, i can carry the 11 round mag that makes it a full size gun, and it comes with a 9 round that makes a compact. I dont really notice it kicking so that doesnt bother me. The only trouble i have had with it is when i hadnt cleaned in a while other than that it never malfunctions.

[LDBennett]

The history goes something like this:

The FBI was involved in a shootout with two heavily armed guys in Florida (??), and lost badly even though the two shooters were eventually killed. Their firearms of choice (38Special??) were highly inadequate and it cost them a couple of their agents lives. They requested a more effective round and started with the 10mm. The 10 was designed by the father of tactical shooting, but in full form is a 1911 sized gun with a very heavy recoil (It twists in the hand too). So the FBI requested downloaded ammo for their new 10's. That solved the recoil problem but then the small statured men and women found the gun too heavy and big for their small hands. The next step was to make a 10mm Short (called the S&W 40 and at the same level as the down loaded 10mm ammo) and fit it to a 9mm framed gun. So today you have the S&W 40 ammo and gun. It recoils about the same as a 45ACP in a gun as heavy as a 1911. But the mistake many make is buying a 25 or less ounce gun instead of a 40 ounce gun. That makes the recoil excessive.

I have a 10mm Colt Delta Elite. I shoot my reloads loaded down to 40S&W specs. I also have a CZ75B in 40S&W loaded to normal specs. Both guns are about the same weight and recoil about the same with these loads. I have owned and shot a High Power, a SIG P225, and a Taurus PT99 (Beretta 92 clone), all in 9mm. I also have a couple of 45ACP full sized and weight guns that I shoot regularly. I much prefer the big push of the 45ACP, the 10mm, and the 40S&W to the sharp recoil of the 9mm. I don't carry any of these guns and all mine are not lightweight guns. The new plastic light guns would be a handful in any of these calibers.

So if you are recoil sensitive you can buy the 40S&W gun. Just don't buy a lightweight model. 45ACP, 10mm, and 40S&W guns should be full sized and weight if you are that recoil sensitive person. I do not see the 9mm as an option for that person either as its recoil is sharp and for me no fun to shoot. To me a big steady push is better than a sharp lighter fast push (9mm). But we all get to choose.

LDBennett

[Grizz]

I love my Glock .40 cal! From my experience the recoil is not excessive with the poly frame Glocks. They have really good accuracy too. Glock even makes a 23rd .40 cal magazine if you want high capacity.

[chuckusaret]

Originally Posted by 3/2 STA SS

I loved my M203-especially when using H.E.D.P. rounds...now as for a .40- I would go CZ. Built like a tank and should last for generations.

I had the pleasure of testing the XM203 in Vietnam before they were issued. As far as what handgun; Springfield XD40 SC would be my recommendation.

[LDBennett]

I am not a Glock fan! In fact, I don't like any of the plastic guns. The Glocks have a reputation of an unsupported chamber requiring special reloading dies to fix the bulged fired cases. I have heard here that they are not all that sturdy in their duty as a COP gun. Then there is the story of my friend who bought one.

My friend is an excellent shot having won many 22 and air gun silhouette competitions locally, both rifle and handgun. He took a defense course with a revolver (the only one there) and never lost a scoring point from a missed target. He is Mr Natural shooter. After the course he bought a Glock in 9mm. In sighting it in, the only way he could get it right was with the sights hanging over the edge of the slide. Now this guy knows guns. He sold it before I could look at it (we live a long way from each other) but there was definitely something wrong with the gun.

The light weight of a Glock can do nothing to help reduce the effects of recoil of the 40S&W which is what this post is all about. I seriously doubt it will do much to help reduce the recoil of the 9mm either. The situation is that we all have different levels of recoil that we can absorb without complaint. My level is pretty high and, of the guns I have shot, only full power 44Mag puts me off, because they hurt me. For my 44Mag revolver I use 44 Special load levels and that is SWEET!!!

LDBennett

[Black Cat]

I have owned a Ruger SR 9c for two years now. I have owned a Ruger SR 40c for a year. I am 75 and eyes are not too good but was able to sigt both in at 15 yds with amazing groups. I have now fired over 500 rounds thru the 9mm and 300 round thru the 40S&W. Most of them being my reloads. I have never had a jam. I do nothing but target shoot and only clean my guns every third time at the range. I had my Rugers ordered from a gun store that sells mostly Glock. He has told me he has never had a complaint on any Ruger he has sold. Recoil is something that I do not notice using the 17 round & 15 round clips. The reason people trade in most 40 S&W is the cost of ammunition. Us old shooters have to give in. Ruger is building some very good guns at a reasonable price

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

The history goes something like this:

The FBI was involved in a shootout with two heavily armed guys in Florida (??), and lost badly even though the two shooters were eventually killed. Their firearms of choice (38Special??) were highly inadequate and it cost them a couple of their agents lives. They requested a more effective round and started with the 10mm. The 10 was designed by the father of tactical shooting, but in full form is a 1911 sized gun with a very heavy recoil (It twists in the hand too). So the FBI requested downloaded ammo for their new 10's. That solved the recoil problem but then the small statured men and women found the gun too heavy and big for their small hands. The next step was to make a 10mm Short (called the S&W 40 and at the same level as the down loaded 10mm ammo) and fit it to a 9mm framed gun. So today you have the S&W 40 ammo and gun. It recoils about the same as a 45ACP in a gun as heavy as a 1911. But the mistake many make is buying a 25 or less ounce gun instead of a 40 ounce gun. That makes the recoil excessive.

I have a 10mm Colt Delta Elite. I shoot my reloads loaded down to 40S&W specs. I also have a CZ75B in 40S&W loaded to normal specs. Both guns are about the same weight and recoil about the same with these loads. I have owned and shot a High Power, a SIG P225, and a Taurus PT99 (Beretta 92 clone), all in 9mm. I also have a couple of 45ACP full sized and weight guns that I shoot regularly. I much prefer the big push of the 45ACP, the 10mm, and the 40S&W to the sharp recoil of the 9mm. I don't carry any of these guns and all mine are not lightweight guns. The new plastic light guns would be a handful in any of these calibers.

So if you are recoil sensitive you can buy the 40S&W gun. Just don't buy a lightweight model. 45ACP, 10mm, and 40S&W guns should be full sized and weight if you are that recoil sensitive person. I do not see the 9mm as an option for that person either as its recoil is sharp and for me no fun to shoot. To me a big steady push is better than a sharp lighter fast push (9mm). But we all get to choose.

LDBennett

Bad guys had a full auto Mini 14 and it was in the mid 80's.

[ryan42]

I love my Glock 21 45acp.

[firefighter1635]

I sold my Springfield XD-M .40 within a month of purchase, Wish I would have rented one before hand. I'll never own another .40, that's just me though.

[Raven18940]

With the cost of ammo these days I'm trying to collect as many like calibers as I can. I've got two 9mm at this point, a Glock 17 and Beretta 92, and I want to get a 1911 in 9mm to save on ammo. I'm even thinking of getting rid of my 7.62 AK for one in 5.56.

I also have a slight issue with most 40 cal gun designs. Most seem to be 9mm that are scaled up to 40, but they don't change the magazine width. Most 9mm handguns and mags are desgined to perfectly stagger the 9mm round. When you stick a 40 in the same space it doesn't stagger correctly and significantly reduces the round count.

So yeah, I wouldn't get a 40 just cause you don't have one. If there's a gun you want that just happens to be in 40, go for it.

[LDBennett]

Raven18940:

Ahhh.......... The whole idea of the 40S&W was a large diameter bullet cartridge in a small 9mm frame. When you do it that way you get what you get. 40 S&W recoils like a 45ACP and worse in light guns (think plastic).

If you want a full sized big gun then the 10mm is the one and it is in a frame that is big enough for a double column mag. If you think full power 40S&W recoils bad you ought to try a big 10mm. They recoil big and twist, along the centerline of the bore, in the hand as well.

LDBennett

[CJ_56]

40 S&W recoils like a 45ACP and worse in light guns

Mine doesn't. It isn't even close. I can't even feel the recoil of it and it is a plastic gun as you call them. Only certain parts are plastic as you know. Weight is only a part of recoil.

I absolutely love my XDm .40. It doesn't have any recoil at all that I can feel. That stuff about the recoil being too hard is pure hogwash. And hurting the gun???? Yeah right. And all those 10mm cannons don't fall apart after being shot 500,000 times. Someone was trying to steer you to a gun they wanted you to buy IMO. There's NOTHING wrong with a .40 caliber gun. Glock, Springfield, Sig, etc., etc. all make decent models. Find one that fits your hand, your wallet and has the features you want. I did and couldn't be happier.

I'd actually love to have a .45 that holds 16+1 rounds but I haven't found one yet. And one of my .45's kicks hard and the other one I can't even feel the recoil even though it's a much lighter gun. The design of the gun has far more to do with the felt recoil than any other factor. For me the axis height has a lot to do with felt recoil. It is probably different for everyone.

Be prepared to work through a few guns to find the perfect gun for you. Most guns will work reasonably well. Mine all do. But I like the features of my .40 a lot even though I have a .45 that has great features. It just doesn't hold 17 rounds. But I carry both guns often depending on various things like how hot it is and what kind of clothes I will be wearing which means I am limited to a certain kind of holster sometimes. I have various holsters too but if I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt I'll be carrying my .45 because I have a great IWB holster to carry it in and it's a smaller gun than my .40. My oldest carry pistol is a single stack .45 and is heavier than my other carry guns. So I rarely carry it now even though I carried it for a decade. Well I do have a .25 I bought when I was in college. I used to carry it when I went into certain bars where I knew everyone else had some kind of a gun. Yes I know it was a .25 but it was accurate and easy to conceal in a back pocket. The LEO's told people not to go to those bars without a gun because everyone else had one BTW. What can I say, I lived in a wild town.

But forget the myths people conjure up about calibers. That stuff the guy told you can't possibly be true. .40's have the bullet speed to penetrate metal and angled glass (unlike a .45) and they have more knock down power than a 9mm. The choice of ammo means a lot. My SA will shoot very accurately although it isn't as accurate as my Sig P220 or my Taurus PT-145. It definitely isn't as accurate as my S&W 629 but not much is. Out to 30-35 yards it is plenty accurate enough. It's not a 1911 but it weighs a lot less and holds twice as many bullets. Look for the features YOU want. I did.

[jack404]

i carried a browning 9mm until i had to use it , later was given a .45 , carried that until i could not

no .45 legal here so i have a .40 loaded hard

less recoil than .357 mag hits harder, expansions better , loading options include shot

you dont get that option til you are at .40 or better in handgun ( serious shot not snake shot like .22's)

i'll put .40 against 9mm any day , cause the one day i needed the 9mm it was NOT enough gun ..

yes recoil is harder than most 9's ,