why not co-operate?

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by LyleLovett666

How should you handle the situation if you're a passenger who's carrying,in a car that's pulled over?

Lyle, IMO if I were a passenger in a vehicle that was pulled over, I would get my drivers license and my CCW out and after the officer spoke with the driver I would offer it to him. I know because I did it. The officer took my license and had me step out of the vehicle after he came around. At that time another officer came around the front of the vehicle and stood before me. They had me step away from the vehicle. The offficer in front of me stood there while the other one ran my info. Then another car came up and that officer stood behind me. Then the first officer came back and handed me my license and said thank you very much. They had me step away from the vehicle and one officer stayed with me and they just asked that I keep my hands in full view. Then the other two officers went back to the truck and one stood at the rear bumper while the original officer ran the plates. It turned out that my friends plates were expired and they simply let him off with a warning. The officers thanked me for being cooperative and went along their way.

[firefighter1635]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

That's just it. To me they are not different. It is my property if I am not doing anything to warrant a search of my person you have no right to ask for my ID. Provide me with a valid logical reason for wanting to see my ID and i will gladly hand it over.

+1. I'm amazed at some of the responses here. You have rights people, use 'em or loose 'em. MOST and I’ll reiterate, MOST Leo’s will not just randomly ask you for your ID for no reason what so ever. It's called a Terry stop, they have to have reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime or are in the progress of committing a crime (crime can be a traffic violation). Now for that I have no problem what so ever producing my ID.

Originally Posted by bobitis

You never know what happens around you. You may be 8 blocks away from a murder scene, and match a vague description provided to the police. You may not know it but the cops do. Guess what's gonna happen if ya get belligerent?

I would not produce my ID in this ridiculous situation and who says anyone has to be belligerent? I've denied Leo’s my ID on two occasions in my lifetime, neither occasion not one person involved became belligerent and I wasn't "Rodney Kinged" nor was I arrested.
I live in a state where open carry is legal and if you do too would you be so reseptive to Leo's that DONT know the laws their sworn to uphold and just randomly stop you for open carrying? Well, not me i'll excersise my rights while I still have them thanks.

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by firefighter1635

+1. I'm amazed at some of the responses here. You have rights people, use 'em or loose 'em. MOST and I’ll reiterate, MOST Leo’s will not just randomly ask you for your ID for no reason what so ever. It's called a Terry stop, they have to have reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime or are in the progress of committing a crime (crime can be a traffic violation). Now for that I have no problem what so ever producing my ID.



I would not produce my ID in this ridiculous situation and who says anyone has to be belligerent? I've denied Leo’s my ID on two occasions in my lifetime, neither occasion not one person involved became belligerent and I wasn't "Rodney Kinged" nor was I arrested.
I live in a state where open carry is legal and if you do too would you be so reseptive to Leo's that DONT know the laws their sworn to uphold and just randomly stop you for open carrying? Well, not me i'll excersise my rights while I still have them thanks.

So you agree with tango about resonable suspicion, and then turn around and call my version ridiculous? 8 blocks from a murder scene, matching the description of the perp, is a ridiculous use of reasonable suspicion. Got it.

I do in fact live in an open carry state, but choose not to. The law is extremely vague concerning the matter, boiling down to if someone else 'felt' threatened by my carrying. I'm simply not going to go there.
Can I do it? Yep. Can I get arrested for it? Yep. Can I get retribution from the PD for being arrested? Yes! "We're sorry".

My brother recently retired with 30 years as a LEO. I've been to every Precinct he's worked at, met his bosses, and done ride alongs with him. I've met many LEOs over the years, and none that I wouldn't trust. It seems I am in minority here.

I guess the bottom line to me is; why cause the Officer any grief? They have enough going on that they don't need it, nor do they respect it. Maybe it just hits a little closer to home with me because it's been in my family for a long time.

It may seem ridiculous to you, but the person with the badge has much more at stake than you do.

[Hammerslagger]

Some might find this link informative in an overview way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

So you agree with tango about resonable suspicion, and then turn around and call my version ridiculous? 8 blocks from a murder scene, matching the description of the perp, is a ridiculous use of reasonable suspicion. Got it.

I do in fact live in an open carry state, but choose not to. The law is extremely vague concerning the matter, boiling down to if someone else 'felt' threatened by my carrying. I'm simply not going to go there.
Can I do it? Yep. Can I get arrested for it? Yep. Can I get retribution from the PD for being arrested? Yes! "We're sorry".

My brother recently retired with 30 years as a LEO. I've been to every Precinct he's worked at, met his bosses, and done ride alongs with him. I've met many LEOs over the years, and none that I wouldn't trust. It seems I am in minority here.


I guess the bottom line to me is; why cause the Officer any grief? They have enough going on that they don't need it, nor do they respect it. Maybe it just hits a little closer to home with me because it's been in my family for a long time.

It may seem ridiculous to you, but the person with the badge has much more at stake than you do.

No Bob, your not alone. I totally agree with you.

[Curtis R]

Ok sorry the senerio is if you were open carry a gun and they walk up to ask for your id to see if you can legally carry. Imo if they can do that then why dont they randomly stop cars to see if they can legaly drive?

[gunslinger69]

For me the biggest problem I have with showing my I.D. is when they call it in it's another check next to my name in the file built against me. That being said I won't show my I.D. unless they have a good reason to see it, The 4th ammendment says I don't have to.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Curtis R

Ok sorry the senerio is if you were open carry a gun and they walk up to ask for your id to see if you can legally carry. Imo if they can do that then why dont they randomly stop cars to see if they can legaly drive?

Because when you get your drivers license you are also signing to agree to be pulled over at any time because you are on the taxpayers road. Kind of like if you are sitting in your car on your property, then the cops can't ask you for your I.D. If you are standing on a public tax paid side walk and they ask you for your I.D. it is best to just show it.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by Curtis R

Ok sorry the senerio is if you were open carry a gun and they walk up to ask for your id to see if you can legally carry. Imo if they can do that then why dont they randomly stop cars to see if they can legaly drive?

+47 gazillion.

That has long been one of my gripes. Cop spots my gun (and this has not happened to me) and suddenly he's right there and I need to be showing him ID and a permit to carry the gun.

Why? Have I broken a law? Does he have any reason to suspect that I have broken a law? No. It's just that, to many people (and that includes many many cops) anybody that carries a gun is a criminal.

He has just as much right to stop me and check my carry permit as he does to stop every single car driving down the road and make sure the driver has a license. But he doesn't do that. Why not? If he is going to stop me for carrying a gun, which is perfectly legal unless I don't have a license, then why doesn't he stop all the people driving cars, which is also perfectly legal UNLESS the driver does not have a license.

[Alpo]

Regarding Highboy's comment. If I was a passenger in car that was stopped by the cops for speeding or reckless driving or whatever, I would sit there and mind my own business until the cop got through ticketing the driver.

If the cop asked my name, I'd tell him. If he asked for my driver's license, I'd show it to him, although he has no more justification in getting my ID than he would coming up to my house, knocking on the door, and when I answered it, asking me for my license. I am not involved in this traffic stop. He should be concerned with the driver.

If he asked me if I had any weapons, I'd like to think that I would ask to see his search warrant, since what I may or may not be carrying is none of his damn business. In all reality, though, I would probably say there is a gun in my pocket and a permit to carry it in my wallet.

Think about this, for a moment. The driver of the vehicle is pretending he is slaloming down a mountain. He is swerving from lane to lane, trying to not run over the little turtles in the center line. Cops pull him over. I'm a passenger in the vehicle. The cop has justification for checking me? Why? Oh, I forgot to mention the vehicle is a Greyhound bus, and there are 74 other passengers. So the cop has justification for checking the IDs of these 75 people, because the bus driver is drunk?

And if he is not justified in checking all the IDs of the 75 passengers on the Greyhound, he is also not justified in checking the ID of the guy in the right seat of the Camaro.

[dodgeboy12008]

It may seem ridiculous to you, but the person with the badge has much more at stake than you do.[/QUOTE]

And why is this exactly? Is there life more important than mine? Who else is in line ahead of me?

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by dodgeboy12008

It may seem ridiculous to you, but the person with the badge has much more at stake than you do.

And why is this exactly? Is there life more important than mine? Who else is in line ahead of me?[/quote]

Who else?

Raven, make it...

Sorry, I've lost count.

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by dodgeboy12008

It may seem ridiculous to you, but the person with the badge has much more at stake than you do.

And why is this exactly? Is there life more important than mine? Who else is in line ahead of me?[/quote]

Welcome to TFF.

[mogunner]

The person with the badge approaches people many many times a day more than you do as an authority figure. Duh...

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Regarding Highboy's comment. If I was a passenger in car that was stopped by the cops for speeding or reckless driving or whatever, I would sit there and mind my own business until the cop got through ticketing the driver.

If the cop asked my name, I'd tell him. If he asked for my driver's license, I'd show it to him, although he has no more justification in getting my ID than he would coming up to my house, knocking on the door, and when I answered it, asking me for my license. I am not involved in this traffic stop. He should be concerned with the driver.

If he asked me if I had any weapons, I'd like to think that I would ask to see his search warrant, since what I may or may not be carrying is none of his damn business. In all reality, though, I would probably say there is a gun in my pocket and a permit to carry it in my wallet.

Think about this, for a moment. The driver of the vehicle is pretending he is slaloming down a mountain. He is swerving from lane to lane, trying to not run over the little turtles in the center line. Cops pull him over. I'm a passenger in the vehicle. The cop has justification for checking me? Why? Oh, I forgot to mention the vehicle is a Greyhound bus, and there are 74 other passengers. So the cop has justification for checking the IDs of these 75 people, because the bus driver is drunk?

And if he is not justified in checking all the IDs of the 75 passengers on the Greyhound, he is also not justified in checking the ID of the guy in the right seat of the Camaro.

I have taken the concealed weapons class two times at the Boise Police Department. Each time it was CLEARLY stated that if you are carrying concealed in a vehicle, whether you are driving or not and get pulled over by a police officer that you are to inform the officer that you are carrying and to have your I.D. ready to show because the officer will not want you grabbing for your I.D. because he might think you are grabbing a gun. He said that it was not a law but that it is better to find out that you have a gun through just being cooperative as opposed to something getting out of hand and then they find out you have a gun. No you don't have to show the I'D., but I did and the officers involved treated me with total respect. One last note. Upon being pulled over my friend barry informed me that he had marijuana in his car and I did not think that was cool. All I wanted was out of that car. I felt that by me showing my I.D. that got me out of the car and on good common ground with the cops. What would have hapopened if I had said nothing and they found the marijuana and then realized I had a gun? That could be a bad scenario. In my mind and for that situation I did what was right. Barry's car had expired tags, bald tires and they could have pushed any issue they wanted. But I believe to this very day that they were cool with us because I replied in a yes sir no sir fashion and was very open with them. It just made sense to me.

[dodgeboy12008]

Originally Posted by mogunner

The person with the badge approaches people many many times a day more than you do as an authority figure. Duh...

That was there choice, But that is still not a reason why they have more to loose, just more chances to loose it.

[jack404]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

says all men are equal here .. or some more equal than others ??

But that is still not a reason why they have more to loose, just more chances to loose it.

so can you explain or is this a question game ??

[dad2thebone]

California says you must show ID when asked. I stay as far from trouble as i can so i dont worry about it much.

[dodgeboy12008]

does because a person has elected to do a job that has risks does that make them better than others? A nurse is not usually in danger, does that mean they're less worthy than a police officer? I was just wondering the thought process behind the comment of why the badge makes somebody more important?

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by dad2thebone

California says you must show ID when asked. I stay as far from trouble as i can so i dont worry about it much.

That is wisdom indeed.

[sub-moa]

Most K.S.P. officers will, upon a traffic stop, ask you for your “Operators license” and proof of insurance, not your I.D. The reason he can ask you for this is driving is not a right; it is a privilege, in the state of KY.and in many others.You must provide this information any time it is asked for. Even at a routine road check. He first wants to verify that you are licensed to drive and are currently insured, and not wanted for other crimes. I would be polite and comply, with these requests. He wants to know who he is dealing with and if you are a threat to him or others. Further questions or requests are answered only at the driver’s digression. I do not have to, without a reasonable explanation; answer any other questions at that time. Even still, you may be better off to answer them rather than be detained further. From my law enforcement friends explanation he cannot ask you to get out of your car without reasonable cause explained to you in detail. A home is completely different. You are not licensed by the state to be at home. They will need a warrant or your permission to enter.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by sub-moa

Most K.S.P. officers will, upon a traffic stop, ask you for your “Operators license” and proof of insurance, not your I.D. The reason he can ask you for this is driving is not a right; it is a privilege, in the state of KY.and in many others.You must provide this information any time it is asked for. Even at a routine road check. He first wants to verify that you are licensed to drive and are currently insured, and not wanted for other crimes. I would be polite and comply, with these requests. He wants to know who he is dealing with and if you are a threat to him or others. Further questions or requests are answered only at the driver’s digression. I do not have to, without a reasonable explanation; answer any other questions at that time. Even still, you may be better off to answer them rather than be detained further. From my law enforcement friends explanation he cannot ask you to get out of your car without reasonable cause explained to you in detail. A home is completely different. You are not licensed by the state to be at home. They will need a warrant or your permission to enter.

Very well put.

[firefighter1635]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Because when you get your drivers license you are also signing to agree to be pulled over at any time because you are on the taxpayers road. Kind of like if you are sitting in your car on your property, then the cops can't ask you for your I.D. If you are standing on a public tax paid side walk and they ask you for your I.D. it is best to just show it.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. At leist in Ohio, I don't know other states laws but you can NOT be pulled over at any time, for no REASON just because you'r driving on "taxpayer roads" but they do it. They call them DUI checkpoints. I'll call them Nazi checkpoints because (in Ohio) they need to have reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime or about to commit a crime. Pulling me over just to see if I have been drinking is not reasonable suspicion.

When faced with a Nazi checkpoint all i've ever done is ask two questions without saying anything else....Am I being detained? and am I free to leave? I've never been beligerant with an officer, no need to, I know my rights. When they realize I know my rights, there demeaner changes and i'm soon released to go about my way.

I don't hold LEO's on a pedistal, there people just like me and you but I do expect them to know the laws they are supose to be enforcing, and I do respect and apreciate the jobs they do. My boss expects me to know my job, in a sence i'm there boss. My taxes pay there salery. I expect them to know there jobs and that means the laws.

I supose I'll entertain the "eight blocks away from a murder scene and I look just like the perp", so they stop me and question me thing, but to be honest i'm sure there going to tell me why there asking me for my ID. In that case i'd show them, now they ask for my ID without telling me why, i'm still not showing it.

In regards to another poster that stated riding shotgun in a vehicle that's being pulled over. If I have a legally concieled firearm on me i'd better be mentioning it to the LEO the minute he gets to the vehicle or i'd be in big trouble. In Ohio you must notify, no matter where your riding at in the car.

[sub-moa]

Here's what can happen even if you try to co-operate with some LEO's


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-...-traffic-stop/

[45nut]

Originally Posted by LyleLovett666

How should you handle the situation if you're a passenger who's carrying,in a car that's pulled over?

Don't ask me no questions and I won't tell you no lies.

As a passenger you are not required to splain lucy, in Texas.