S&W .40 Sigma trigger mod

[yellerdawg]

Originally Posted by Rocketman1

Thanks for posting the pictures yellerdawg, they were a great help in understanding this.

So you have polished as describbed in the pics, and if I understand correctly, you have removed the small pig tail spring, but have left both the inner and outer coil springs as they were?



Now this is where I get a little lost. This spring you describe as being similar to that of a ball pen type, does it replace the pig tail spring?

Thanks

No Rocketman....the little pig tail is removed...."some" say it is a direct
result of the S&W Glock settlement (from S&W obviously copying so
much of a Glock, and that it wasnt there on very first Sigmas and only showed up till after legal issues...? ) others say its there to help ensure
sear resets after each shot...?

No, the "similar" to a pen spring mentioned, when you look, is actually
a LARGER spring that totally rides over, a smaller diameter INNER spring,
with much more tension, and actually does the work..the outer spring seems really there to keep this inner spring in check and installed..etc..

When I obtained the mod(s) originally and pics from S&W forum...the
mod actually shows taking inner smaller spring and using a dremel wheel
disc, shortening it by "almost" 1/8 inch, and also same to outer spring...in
order to reduce some pull....

I do not endorse changing the INNER spring at all, for possibility of indeed
affecting sear/trigger reset, but I do or did change the outer...most indeed
just got a ball point pen soft spring to replace with...however, I searched and found a "grab bag" of industrial compression and expansion springs
and found one same length. but half the tension...etc...but..a ball pen
spring would have probably done the same. I placed "original" outer spring in
little bag with factory proof case should I ever transfer weapon, however
if any have read My Sigma post...is obvious I will not get rid of this
pistol.

Please contact me with any further questions or comments...thanks..

yellerdawg


note per pics I added....


- I annotated about cutting outer spring as he explained...but...I didnt
and actually got a different and SHORTER (less tension) spring...and did
nothing to INNER spring. This way, "some" trigger/hammer pull was reduced yet important INNER spring still held in place....

And the grind wheel was to flatten any cut so a spring if shortened would STILL have a good area or foot to catch the little cam that holds it in
place in "hammer" assembly .....?

[yellerdawg]

Rocketman, after checking, a couple more things to say...


1- In post # 24....per pic I show where to polish hammer areas on
TOP of pistol, that long flat arm that comes from trigger to hammer
assembly....you just polish INNER of that flat arm, as "some" folks
experienced some rub or grit there....in fact...if you look close at the
pic, right between arm and frame where one of my green lines goes...
you see the little black plastic frame runner that actually can rub this
arm...

"Some" even showed filing or removing enough of that plastic area so
that nothing can rub....if yours is tight, then do that..otherwise just
polish arm (inside / next to frame) very bright. I also grease a drop
right at that point each cleaning.

And, this "arm" is what you carefully move from pivot point of hammer when you have used a punch (at top rear of pistol) to remove the only pin
you need to remove sear/hammer assembly....but...the end of arm that
connects to trigger stays intact, so handle gently, when removing and
if polishing etc...


2- I would not ask for any to do anything that they feel uncomfortable
about. I am an EE and Microwave and Digital Engineer by trade, but with
much time in a machine shop. I am not a gunsmith, just a smith per my
own weapons if desired. I looked and studied much before I did anything to
my Sigma, I did not by any means do all I saw being done by others,and
have in fact passed on some things I have determined myself to do, that
I have not seen elsewhere.

I have simply passed on the simplest means I know for any that may benefit, keeping safety and reliability foremost. And as I said, 700 to 1000
rounds will almost do as much to trigger feel as anything I have suggested or done....except...

If you do nothing at all, except clean it...get a set of punches so you can
take the one top rear pin out, remove sear molding and hammer springs, and do grease and lube the sear cam or lobe where I showed. If not...
eventually yours will indeed have plastic scoring as in pic I showed from metal to plastic wear.


regards,

yellerdawg

[Rocketman1]

Thanks so much for all the additional info Yellerdoawg. Nice pictures and illustrations.
I understand everyting now, and I may just trythis soon. I think I may start by just removing the small pig tail spring and doing some light polishing, and see how much it improves. Looks like I can always add the spring(s) back in, if something dosen't work right.

Thanks!
Darrell

[lzvagias]

Newbie here. I recently bought the sigma .40 cal and loved the gun for it's price point, rugged nature, and reliability but loathed the trigger. It seemed like the gun had too much potential to be ruined by the heavy gritty trigger. I polished out the parts as mentioned earlier, used anti seize grease from permatex, removed the pigtail (that thing is like mosquitos, they serve zero purpose) and I swapped out the spring for an aftermarket that I purchased. I have over 1000 rounds of the cheapest crap ammo I could purchase, steel casings and brass, with zero failures. If I get a misfire with it the next time I fire it i will still consider this a very high reliability rate. What bothered me the most was not that the trigger was a little rough or heavy, it was my accuracy.... plain and simple. Consistently low and left unless I was trying to compensate then it was just consistently inconsistent. After doing all thee mods I learned something interesting..... the grouping to the left was very much a result of the trigger pull issues (that was not a surprise) but the reason that they are LOW and to the left is nothing to do with the trigger. the low issue is the fault of the lousy front site. Has anybody noticed how tall the front site is?? It is rediculous!! While searching for a solution to this I came across another forum where somebody discovered that you can purchase a HiViz fiber optic site for a Glock and after doing a little filing on the site you can replace the OEM one. Night and day difference!! I am not shooting low anymore. I would highly recommend this to anybody that is frustrated with the "low and left" issue. Also, many people are not even aware that the rear site IS adjustable for windage. You can use the plastick handle of a big screw driver to gently tap the site sideways in the slide but make sure you the "left" is not human induced. You wouldn't want to try and compensate for your twitching by adjusting the windage. You would really be inconsistent if you did.

[Rocketman1]

Originally Posted by lzvagias

Newbie here. I recently bought the sigma .40 cal and loved the gun for it's price point, rugged nature, and reliability but loathed the trigger. ...... I swapped out the spring for an aftermarket that I purchased. ....... Consistently low and left unless I was trying to compensate then it was just consistently inconsistent. ..... the low issue is the fault of the lousy front site. Has anybody noticed how tall the front site is?? It is rediculous!! While searching for a solution to this I came across another forum where somebody discovered that you can purchase a HiViz fiber optic site for a Glock and after doing a little filing on the site you can replace the OEM one. Night and day difference!!

Welcome to the forum zvagias.
Glad you took the time to join and share your experience with your Sigma. Stick around you will like it here.

I would very much appreciate info on the after market spring you purchased, and a web site link and further instruction on the front sight replacement.

I was aware that the rear sight was adjustable, but I didn't want to mess with it, until I found out if its me or the gun. The Sigma is the first pistol I owned. I just recently got a .22 pistol, and I'm much better with it. I got the .22 for something cheaper to shoot and I thought it might help me shoot the Sigma better. It did just the opposite. After shooting the .22 the trigger pull on the Sigma is unbearable. I usually shoot at 25 yards and my shots are all low and left, and very often in the dirt on the low target that I shoot at.

[lzvagias]

thanks for the welcome! I got the spring from ebay from this guy http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spring-to-re...4&cmd=ViewItem and there is another guy on ebay that sells them but this one said it ws designed by a gunsmith and was made for the sigma. The other guy probably sells the same spring but I guess I liked that this guy mentioned gunsmith and "designed for the sigma". The hiviz sight I got from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s00_i00 and basically, the old front sight comes off by grabbing it with a pair of pliers and twist it off or you can salvage it (like I did) by using a pocket knife or small flat head screw driver and prying the glue off from the underside of the slide. Actually, it's not glue, the site is pushed in and then the melt the underside of it and thats what holds it in place. Then Sigma and the Glock both have an oval hole cut in the slide for the front sight, the only problem is that the Glock's oval is larger so you have to file down the oval "foot" on the bottom of the new sight to fit into the Sigma slide. There is a very nice detailed write up with pics on another forum but I don't know the rules about posting links to other forums websites on this forum. It is usually frowned upon and I don't want to wear out my welcome on my second post here but I will PM you the link. If you have a Dremel and have a steady hand it is really quick and easy but even if you just have a file it would still be simple.

[Rocketman1]

Thanks for all the detail, and for the info cent in the PM Izagias, it's greatly appreciated.
I think I certainly have enough information to do the mods now, but I'm still a little reluctant to jump right in. The Sigma is primarily my home defense weapon, and as is, (trigger pull and all) it will do just fine. One day soon I will try some of the mods, probably strating with just polishing, and then go from there.

Thanks Again!

[lzvagias]

I uderstand your point but I would strongly urge you to at least polish out the trigger parts with some 800 wet sand paper until the imperfections are gone then step up to 1000 grit and then polish with mothers or something like that and definitetly remove the pigtail spring. This will make the gun much better, is very easy to do, and is almost impossible to mess up anything. Mine is mainly for home defense too but I beleive that the more accurate you are with your firearm the better off you are going to be in a real life or death situation. Anything i can do to improve my ability to put a bullet where I need it is added security. If somebody is in my house I am going to grab the biggest highest capicity gun I have and I want to be able to point and shoot quickly without worrying about aiming at his chest and then grazing his arm because my trigger is crappy. But that is just my opinion and I am not a combat expert nor do I hope that I ever find myself in that position.

[mogunner]

I have the 40VE, it came with the long hard trigger pull. After reading all the forums on the trigger mods I decided to just shoot it. I have a little over 300 rounds through it and the trigger breaks at a hair over 5 lbs now. I did have the low shooting problem, did the Hi Viz sight mod about a year ago after I went to put it in the nightstand and noticed the front sight was GONE... S&W said I needed to send the slide in, the front sight had to be "electronically welded" on. I said "You mean melted, right? Never mind, I'll just put a Glock sight on it." For some reason there was total silence on the line just before I said goodbye and disconnected.

I did switch from the VE as my primary CCW pistol, have some carpal tunnel problems with the right hand so went to a Ruger P95 due to the DA/SA capability and the ability to pull the trigger a second time in case of a hard primer.

[lzvagias]

Haha! They probably were still trying to figure out why a Glock sight fit your slide. I like that you called them on "electronically welded". That's funny. I used to have a p89 I think or maybe it was a p90. It was a long time ago and I didn't have it very long. I bought used from a buddy then had to sell it because I needed the cash about 6 months later. I really liked that gun but damn it was big! There was no concealing that bad boy, not on me anyway. I liked the capacity it had, 16+1 or 17+1 or something like that. I was actually looking for another used when I found the SW40 and went with it but I may end up buying another one still.

[mogunner]

15+1 for us folks that live outside of California. I had a heck of a time finding one, I guess Ruger had some special going on and pretty near sold out of them, finally located one by luck at one of the LGS around here for the same price that Bud's wanted for one. I CC it in an IWB at 3:00, but I'm 6'4" and 230. I'm actually considering selling the 40VE to fund a venture into a black powder rifle so I can take advantage of the muzzleloader deer season here, there's a conservation area close by but no centerfire deer season only archery and black powder.

[shorter260513]

just did this on my 9mm sigma worked wonders but if you have fat fingers like me have a small clamp and a pair of tweezers handy

[Sig Willy]

I removed the torsion (pigtail) spring and put a dab of lithium grease between the sear cam and the plastic housing. Worked the trigger to spread the grease and I'm satisfied. The trigger's hard enough for safety and now smoother pulling.

1000 rounds and no problem with my Sigma 9mm.

[Fox-Firearms]

Hi All. Great reading about S&W Sigma trigger mods. I've read all kinds of posts, and most of them will help reduce trigger pull. With that being said, I would only recommend doing a trigger mod yourself if you plan on keeping the gun forever. Modifying the trigger yourself voids the warranty, and opens you to civil liability if you sell the gun and someone gets hurt.

I just got off the phone with S&W, and they told me the pull is factory set at 12 lbs, but can be reduced to a minimum of 8.5 lbs (legal safety requirements). If you send your Sigma back to S&W, they will reduce the pull to 8.5 lbs at no cost to you, other than shipping. I STRONGLY recommend you let S&W take care of this fix for you.

[Rocketman1]

Originally Posted by Fox-Firearms

Hi All. Great reading about S&W Sigma trigger mods. I've read all kinds of posts, and most of them will help reduce trigger pull. With that being said, I would only recommend doing a trigger mod yourself if you plan on keeping the gun forever. Modifying the trigger yourself voids the warranty, and opens you to civil liability if you sell the gun and someone gets hurt.

I just got off the phone with S&W, and they told me the pull is factory set at 12 lbs, but can be reduced to a minimum of 8.5 lbs (legal safety requirements). If you send your Sigma back to S&W, they will reduce the pull to 8.5 lbs at no cost to you, other than shipping. I STRONGLY recommend you let S&W take care of this fix for you.

Oh... glad I saw your post. I didn't think S&W was doing the free trigger mods anymore. Looks like I will have to give them a call. Do you have a contact number?

[mogunner]

Don't ask them about a "trigger mod" or they will get all huffy with you and won't do a thing for you.However, if you complain that the trigger pull is gritty and 'catches' as you pull the trigger, they'll have you send it in and when it comes back to you it will be all slicked up.

One note, the newest ones have the pins "peened" in the sear assembly to make it very difficult to take it apart and clean up, probably a liability CYA by S&W.

For those low shooters, here is a shot of my 40VE with the Glock HiViz sight installed. Raises your POI about 2" at 25 yards.

[Rocketman1]

Originally Posted by mogunner

Don't ask them about a "trigger mod" or they will get all huffy with you and won't do a thing for you.However, if you complain that the trigger pull is gritty and 'catches' as you pull the trigger, they'll have you send it in and when it comes back to you it will be all slicked up.

One note, the newest ones have the pins "peened" in the sear assembly to make it very difficult to take it apart and clean up, probably a liability CYA by S&W.

For those low shooters, here is a shot of my 40VE with the Glock HiViz sight installed. Raises your POI about 2" at 25 yards.

[/IMG]

Thanks for the additional info mogunner.
I have a low shooter, but it has nothing to do with the sights, it's the hard trigger.

[mcw120566]

I have two Sigmas, and have done the trigger mod on both of them, I would consider them to one of the best point and shoot guns for the mony on the market. They will shoot anything that I throw at them, and do it with consistancy.

[mjsnook]

I had an SW40F and I really liked the gun...except I hated the damn trigger. I wish I had found this prior to getting rid of it.