Bible question

[76Highboy]

In Genesis, who was the first man and woman made?

[jack404]

Adam and Eve

2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help mate.
2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by jack404

Adam and Eve

2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help mate.
2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Nope.

[jack404]

and your answer be ?

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by jack404

and your answer be ?

Give me a moment. I type slow.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by jack404

and your answer be ?

The first man and woman were made on the sixth day, Gen: 1 26-31. Here we see that God made all of mankind, and it was a date before Adam, the sixth day to be exact. He spoke with us, every one of us way before Adam came along.

Ephesians 1: 4-5 tells us that we were made before the foundation of the world, directly from Paul's mouth. Also, Eph: 1-4-5 shares with us that we were predestined and Genesis 1 26-31 shows us that we did have a message from God before Adam was formed.

So now we go to Gen 2-7. This is when God formed Adam but we know that from Gen 1: 4-5 that Adam, along with ALL mankind was already created.

So, on the sixth day God created all mankind. On the 7th, He formed Adam.

If we disagree on this, it does not mean we are not saved. It's just a unique fact on the Bible that many miss. Also, if you don't agree, pray about it and read over it and you will see. It's right there in Gods own words.

[jack404]

i think it shows there are two sides to us a spiritual side that was created on the sixth day and then the body , Adam is the Spirit of man or of God ? is the flesh of man or of God

then we decide from these if man was there on the 6th day or mankind which to me is the souls of all ( more spirit than flesh)

but thats me ..

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by jack404

i think it shows there are two sides to us a spiritual side that was created on the sixth day and then the body , Adam is the Spirit of man or of God ? is the flesh of man or of God

then we decide from these if man was there on the 6th day or mankind which to me is the souls of all ( more spirit than flesh)

but thats me ..

I agree 100%, however, Gen 1: 4-5 does not divide us from spirit or flesh, it says mankind. So I believe that we were fully created as individuals before we were put into flesh here. A fleshly state up there: no way. But, we were the same spiritually up there as we are down here. It's just that we have this fleshy body and a sinful nature. I just wanted to hear what others per-sieved from this and your perception Jack is truly appreciated.

Thanks

[ampaterry]

The Ephesians passage you mentioned:

Ephesians 1:4-5 (KJV);
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

This speaks of our being chosen, not created. It addresses the fact that God is omniscient, knowing all things, and having a perfect vision of the future.

The two accounts of the creation of Man in Genesis are not speaking of two separate creations, but merely giving more details concerning the one creation. It is very common, especially in Hebrew, to give an account of something, then to go back and give some parts of that account in more detail.
For instance:

Genesis 4:25 (KJV):
25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Then Seth bore Enos in the next verse, then in the next chapter:
Genesis 5:3 (KJV):
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

This is the second account of the same event, the birth of Seth, and is not the birth of a second Seth. In the same way, there are two accounts given of the creation of man, but they both speak of the same single event of that creation.

There are many other references to Adam being the first man, such as:
1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV);
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Now, the exact meaning of the last Adam is another topic, but the simple fact is the first man is identified as Adam.

[jack404]

and the name of the first tax collector ?

[ampaterry]

Is it *@# &@#)??

[carver]

Nimrod?

[ampaterry]

Jehoiakim?

[bountyh]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

The first man and woman were made on the sixth day, Gen: 1 26-31. Here we see that God made all of mankind, and it was a date before Adam, the sixth day to be exact.

+1 Correct.

Adam was created to make the bloodline that would eventually bring Christ.

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by bountyh

+1 Correct.

Adam was created to make the bloodline that would eventually bring Christ.

Then why did Paul call Adam the first man?

[user]

This thread ignores the alternate story in which Lilith preceded Eve.

But seriously, the true self (a gnostic concept to which I think Paul subscribes) which is beyond time/space is an aspect of the Divine Self, and the recognition of the fact of that relationship gives one the power to become a son of God. Jesus showed us how. "And to all who believeth in him" means to ascribe credibility to him, not merely to believe he existed. "For even the demons do that, and shudder." Since each of us, in that context, is neither created, nor made, and "of one being with The Father", it doesn't make sense to talk about humanity having been created on the sixth day. "Before Abraham was, I am." applies to each of us. It's the realization of the true self (that's where the gnosticism comes in) that's the key. After all, Jesus didn't say, "worship me", he said, "follow me."

[ampaterry]

Hey, user, to each his own!

I take a more literal view of scripture, but in most cases this is NOT a salvation issue -

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by ampaterry;969671


but the simple fact is the [I

first man[/I] is identified as Adam.

Thanks Terry.

I agree that Adam was the first "Fleshly" man, which is what Paul was addressing in 1 Cor. 15:45. If you read from 1 Cor. 40-45 the perspective is on the spiritual and the earthly bodies ans so Paul exemplifies Adam as the first earthly man. However, from what I read in Gen 1:27-31 the author is speaking of the celestial body. However, weather it is celestial (spiritual) or terrestrial (earthly) man was still created before the foundation of the world was created.

New International Version (NIV)

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. ”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food. ” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning —the sixth day.

Here we can see that God created mankind. Then we see the word "Them" meaning more than one. Then we see that they were male and female. Then we see"-the sixth day". Now one thing that keeps sticking out in my mind is this. On the sixth day God spoke to all of them, and he gave them a set of instructions,,, them meaning male and female. However, once God made Adam, he gave him instructions that were slightly different that on the sixth day, and he only gave them to the male. This would indicate that he spoke to every created being on the sixth day, and then to Adam on the eighth day, or the day after the seventh

This has baffled me because you don't hear it preached this way but this is how I read it. I am always open to scripture backing the fact.

From what I read and understand, we were all created before Adam was ever placed on this world. Yes it is spiritual, but fact is we still existed even before the womb.

Jerm 1:5

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. ”

Thanks,
Jim
















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[ampaterry]

As I said elsewhere, to each his own. Yours is an interesting concept, but not the one I see. When God says he knew us before we were formed, I take that as indicating God's omnificence - he has perfect knowledge of the future, so knows every thing about us before we exist.
God created time and space - but he is not limited by his own creation. I believe he can see tomorrow as clearly as we see yesterday, and therefore knows everything about us before we are born.
I know that is a rather different concept, but to me it ties together a lot of loose ends in scripture, like his identifying himself as I AM. If a being exists at all points of time without personally experiencing the passage of time, I AM is a perfect description of them; they never WERE, and they never WILL BE, but are, at every point in time, I AM.

Then let us look at Christs sacrifice.
We are told that he suffered for our sins.
This raises the question; did he suffer for a sin which I managed to not commit?
Or did he suffer too little because I commited more sins than anticipated?
There are two solutions to that dilemna;
1. Every point in history is fixed in place already, every action we ever take is already cast in concrete, and our 'free agency' is a ruse -
or
2. God sees every point in history, yet without interfering with our free agency. Since he sees it without directly controlling it, he has to see it dynamically; when I sin tomorrow, god, existing outside of the passage of time, is aware of that sin.
To Him, he is creating the world NOW. To Him, he is being born in a manger NOW. To Him, he is dying on the cross NOW. To Him, he is returning to gather the saints for the last great battle NOW.

The sobering part of that, as it applies to Christs suffering for our sins, is that when we sin, we add to his suffering immediately. I fail, and Christ, almost two thousand years ago, suffers for that sin the instant I commit it.

I know that is a difficult concept, because we experience time in a fixed one-dimensional progression. I merely propose that God, the creator of time, experiences it as a totality.

Man, my head hurts. I need some ovaltine.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

As I said elsewhere, to each his own. Yours is an interesting concept, but not the one I see. When God says he knew us before we were formed, I take that as indicating God's omnificence - he has perfect knowledge of the future, so knows every thing about us before we exist.
God created time and space - but he is not limited by his own creation. I believe he can see tomorrow as clearly as we see yesterday, and therefore knows everything about us before we are born.
I know that is a rather different concept, but to me it ties together a lot of loose ends in scripture, like his identifying himself as I AM. If a being exists at all points of time without personally experiencing the passage of time, I AM is a perfect description of them; they never WERE, and they never WILL BE, but are, at every point in time, I AM.

Then let us look at Christs sacrifice.
We are told that he suffered for our sins.
This raises the question; did he suffer for a sin which I managed to not commit?
Or did he suffer too little because I commited more sins than anticipated?
There are two solutions to that dilemna;
1. Every point in history is fixed in place already, every action we ever take is already cast in concrete, and our 'free agency' is a ruse -
or
2. God sees every point in history, yet without interfering with our free agency. Since he sees it without directly controlling it, he has to see it dynamically; when I sin tomorrow, god, existing outside of the passage of time, is aware of that sin.
To Him, he is creating the world NOW. To Him, he is being born in a manger NOW. To Him, he is dying on the cross NOW. To Him, he is returning to gather the saints for the last great battle NOW.

The sobering part of that, as it applies to Christs suffering for our sins, is that when we sin, we add to his suffering immediately. I fail, and Christ, almost two thousand years ago, suffers for that sin the instant I commit it.

I know that is a difficult concept, because we experience time in a fixed one-dimensional progression. I merely propose that God, the creator of time, experiences it as a totality.

Man, my head hurts. I need some ovaltine.

I hope the ovaltine helped Terry. So, how do you translate Gen: 1 27-31? How do you differentiate the sixth days creation from Adams formation on the earth. This is where I am stumped.

Thanks for the help Terry and send me some ovaltine please.

[ka64]

Originally Posted by jack404

and the name of the first tax collector ?

SATAN............

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by ka64

SATAN............

So true.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

The first man and woman were made on the sixth day, Gen: 1 26-31. Here we see that God made all of mankind, and it was a date before Adam, the sixth day to be exact. He spoke with us, every one of us way before Adam came along.

Ephesians 1: 4-5 tells us that we were made before the foundation of the world, directly from Paul's mouth. Also, Eph: 1-4-5 shares with us that we were predestined and Genesis 1 26-31 shows us that we did have a message from God before Adam was formed.

So now we go to Gen 2-7. This is when God formed Adam but we know that from Gen 1: 4-5 that Adam, along with ALL mankind was already created.

So, on the sixth day God created all mankind. On the 7th, He formed Adam.
If we disagree on this, it does not mean we are not saved. It's just a unique fact on the Bible that many miss. Also, if you don't agree, pray about it and read over it and you will see. It's right there in Gods own words.

There's no debate on one point. The Bible says on the seventh day GOD rested. So clearly the highlighted comment can't be true.

[jack404]

ka64 yeah but he had a flashier name then ..

i always thought that the reference to mankiknd before adam showed we are all waiting to exist and this displaces reincarnation as not possible ,

and how we are all unique souls and potentially all saints if you will

[carver]

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Them = Adam, and Eve.