Am I scratching my rifle bore using this?

[Indy Bob]

I found this cleaner/paste that REALLY works good.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/178...-1-1-2-oz-tube
First I use CR-10 to get out the copper and run patches till clean. Then soak in Kroil for a while. Next I use this IOSSO paste and use as directed ............ and from the relatively clean bore I THOUGHT I had, patches come out black with powder residue.
PROBLEM: (?) This paste has a grit that I can feel. There are a bunch of reviews at MidwayUSA on this product and all were good.
I do NOT want to ruin my barrel with this stuff.
Has anyone on the forum used this IOSSO bore cleaner?
What other product can I use safely ...AFTER the CR-10? (It is a great copper cleaner).

Thanks in advance
Indy Bob

[hunter29180]

its a semi-abrasive compound as all paste bore polishers are. under a one a yr use its ok, but if you clean 2 or more times a month, then it could start removing the metal of the bore..

[LDBennett]

Indy Bob:

I don't know how the IOSSO paste compares to J-B® NON-EMBEDDING BORE CLEANING COMPOUND as sold by Brownells but J-B claims the barrel will not be hurt by its use. Brownells stands behind all of the products they sell. They are basically a gunsmithing supply house. Midway will sell anything they can make a profit on, in my opinion.

I use J-B almost regularly. It seems nothing gets the bore cleaner than it. A perfectly clean bore will still show lots of black with the use of J-B. It appears to be jeweler's rouge in an oil (??). But it does not feel all that gritty to the touch. It works great and has been on the market for many decades.I always follow it with a Hoppe's to be assured it is all out of the bore and chamber area.

LDBennett

[Gabob]

I also use J-B on regular basis. If I remember correctly it was an optical polishing paste that the late Warren Page started using as bore cleaner. (Warren Page developed the
.240 Page Sooper Pooper which evolved to the .243 Winchester)
I have never had any bore damage from using J-B

[RunningOnMT]

This is just my opinion, and everyone knows about opinions, but while I don't know how much material is removed using such abrasives, I think the question should be, "Do you need it?"

Don't get me wrong, I believe in keeping your guns clean, but how clean is necessary for maintaining accuracy and function. A few passes with a bore brush dipped in solvent, followed by half a dozen or so clean patches, and one with a drop or two of oil if you aren't going to be shooting for awhile, is sufficient in my opinion. If you keep scrubbing til your patches come out spotless, buy tons of them because you'll need them. Been there, done that. I see no benefit from it.

Now, I consider myself a novice shooter/gun owner at best compared to the experienced members of TFF, so I bow to their expertise if they are of a different opinion. This is just what has worked for me and gives me confidence that my firearms are clean for all practical purposes.

[LDBennett]

One of the technics gunsmiths use to renew a barrel that is performing poorly after a life of good performance is to remove all the built up copper. Often times the accuracy will return after this.

What I have found is that a barrel gets a build up of alternate layers of copper and powder fowling. The Hoppes #9 type powder solvents remove the power buildup on the current layer but leaves the copper. If you use a copper solvent (which usually contains ammonia in various strengths and that will attack metal if left in the barrel too long) you dissolve away the current layer of copper revealing a lower layer of powder residue. The number of alternating layers is determined by how well you clean the gun between shootings. If you clean thoroughly after every shooting session you stay ahead of the build up. But if you just swab out the barrel with powder solvent you get the build up.

I have attempted to clean many a barrel in the last 25+ years with various methods. I have used Sweets (a mild ammonia cleaner), detergent cleaners, Kroil oil, plain old Hoppes #9, Hoppes Elite (another mild ammonia cleaner), Otis solvent, BreakFree, Otters electro/chemical plating system, and J-B paste. The most effective is the Otter plating system but it takes forever. Once through the first copper layer you have to remove the revealed powder fouling manual with a rod and patches, then another copper layer and on and on. It can takes days and days to get to the bare metal.

So.... I currently make a valiant effort to get most of the copper out with Sweets but don't get obsessive about it. Just swabbing the barrel out with a powder solvent does not cut it with me. I at least try to get the copper out. I always follow any copper removal with a swab of Hoppe's #9 to be sure to stop the chemical action of the copper remover or remove any abrasives from the J-B past if there are any.

Then the roughness of the barrel is different from gun to gun. Some barrels clean out easily and others never seem to get clean because there is excessive roughness in the bore that hides the fouling.

LDBennett

[RJay]

The reason the patches are coming out black after using the bore paste is the fact that the bore paste is a polish, the black is the polish residue. It is simpler to using a brass brush, then wiping down the bore with bore cleaner, the patch will come out green from the brass residue. A endless cycle trying to get a clean patch.

[Indy Bob]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

Once through the first copper layer you have to remove the revealed powder fouling manual with a rod and patches, then another copper layer and on and on. It can takes days and days to get to the bare metal.

Just swabbing the barrel out with a powder solvent does not cut it with me. I at least try to get the copper out. I always follow any copper removal with a swab of Hoppe's #9 to be sure to stop the chemical action of the copper remover or remove any abrasives from the J-B past if there are any.

Then the roughness of the barrel is different from gun to gun. Some barrels clean out easily and others never seem to get clean because there is excessive roughness in the bore that hides the fouling.

LDBennett

NOTE: I used only 3 paragraphs from L.D. Bennett's quote as they related to my question and circumstances.

One thing I only guessed at was getting rid of the ammonia based CR-10. After using it, and withing 10 minutes, I am "flushing the bore" with plenty of Kroil and Hoppes 9 mixed half and half, and continuing other cleaning and final oil in the bore.

My rifle is a custom 22-250 from 1965. It has VERY little use in those 47 years. It was used "lightly" in 1966-'69, 1985-6, and now in 2012. The rest of the time it was living in a gun case.

My problem was in the '60s and 80's I THOUGHT I was properly cleaning my rifle, but in reality ........... I was building up those "LAYERS" that J.D Bennett was referring to.
I did not have forums/Internet then and I found out from this forum what problems I really had. My accuracy went from "one hole or dime sized groups" earlier, to .50 cent pieces in 2012.
I have reduced my groups by "getting rid of those old layers", and I am back to about nickle size OR SMALLER groups now. I feel some of the problems now are me @ 71, BUT I did have 3 shots touching each other last time out. OOPS ..... 3 in a 4 shot group. There is always one stubborn shot that don't want to join the group!!''

PS. From input given here on this thread, I am going to get the JB cleaner.
I just do not like the "feel of grit" in the IOSSO.

Thanks,
Bob