Iver Johnson - Black powde or Smokeless/?? - The Firearms Forum

Qmeister · 07-25-2012, 02:17 PM

I was gifted a very nice IverJohnson topbreak revolver in 38 S&W. The serial number is T59787. I know that Mr. Goforth is no longer with us, but I wonder if there is somebody else out there that can tell me if this is a black powder only or a smokless powder gun. Qmeister

Jim K · 07-25-2012, 02:49 PM

The number dates to 1908. IIRC, 1909 was the cutoff date for IJ change to smokeless.

Ammo makers keep the pressure of smokeless ammo very low, though, so a few shots with modern ammo should not hurt, but I would avoid a steady diet. IMHO, the black/smokeless question is not that important with most revolvers, though a few off brands have cylinder walls so thin that they should not be fired at all, with anything.

Jim

Qmeister · 07-25-2012, 03:04 PM

JimK I thank you for that info. I don't expect to shoot the pistol more than a few times so I will take your advice re the smokeless loads. It's hard to believe just lookig at this piece that it really is over a hundred years old!!
Thanks again, Qmeister

RJay · 07-26-2012, 09:17 PM

Out of curiosity, what is the serial number. On two different post you gave two serial numbers. The first T5787 and in the second post T59787. In this case it doesn't matter, the first ( as given by hrf ) is 1907, the second number ( as given by Jim K ) is 1908, both black powder years. However a mild chastisement is due, sometimes a mix up in serial numbers can mean big differences and cause monetary loss or possible endangerment.

Clark · 08-13-2012, 02:10 PM

My grandfather had an Iver Johnson break top 38 S&W in the Alaskan Gold rush.

Inspired by this, my brother and I bought countless more examples of Iver Johnson break tops 10 or 12 years ago at gun shows. I was getting nice ones for $50 and corroded with broken trigger spring for $20.
I can replace the trigger spring.

I overloaded an IJ 38SW with a hand load that was a 38 Super +P published load.
The latch stretched on the IJ and the action was loose.
There is a tiny part of sheet metal with a hole in it. The hole gets stretched into an oblong shape.
I mentioned something about the latch and pressure and my father, the great gun designing chief engineer, snapped at me, ~~ " That is from bullet friction and recoil on the barrel mass, not pressure ~~".

It took me a while to get my mind around that.
Now I use low friction soft cast bullets or balls in handloads.
I use wimp loads of 1 or 2 grains of Bullseye or Unique.
Here are some of the right bullets
http://www.westernbullet.com/ly3150gr.html

07-25-2012, 02:17 PM	#1
Qmeister Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 3	Iver Johnson - Black powde or Smokeless/?? I was gifted a very nice IverJohnson topbreak revolver in 38 S&W. The serial number is T59787. I know that Mr. Goforth is no longer with us, but I wonder if there is somebody else out there that can tell me if this is a black powder only or a smokless powder gun. Qmeister --> Last edited by Qmeister; 07-25-2012 at 02:18 PM.. Reason: spelling

07-25-2012, 02:49 PM	#2
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Iver Johnson - Black powde or Smokeless/?? The number dates to 1908. IIRC, 1909 was the cutoff date for IJ change to smokeless. Ammo makers keep the pressure of smokeless ammo very low, though, so a few shots with modern ammo should not hurt, but I would avoid a steady diet. IMHO, the black/smokeless question is not that important with most revolvers, though a few off brands have cylinder walls so thin that they should not be fired at all, with anything. Jim

07-25-2012, 03:04 PM	#3
Qmeister Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 3	Re: Iver Johnson - Black powder or Smokeless/?? JimK I thank you for that info. I don't expect to shoot the pistol more than a few times so I will take your advice re the smokeless loads. It's hard to believe just lookig at this piece that it really is over a hundred years old!! Thanks again, Qmeister

07-26-2012, 09:17 PM	#4
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: Iver Johnson - Black powde or Smokeless/?? Out of curiosity, what is the serial number. On two different post you gave two serial numbers. The first T5787 and in the second post T59787. In this case it doesn't matter, the first ( as given by hrf ) is 1907, the second number ( as given by Jim K ) is 1908, both black powder years. However a mild chastisement is due, sometimes a mix up in serial numbers can mean big differences and cause monetary loss or possible endangerment. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 07-26-2012 at 09:23 PM..

08-13-2012, 02:10 PM	#5
Clark Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: where I5 meets the rain forest Posts: 7	Re: Iver Johnson - Black powde or Smokeless/?? My grandfather had an Iver Johnson break top 38 S&W in the Alaskan Gold rush. Inspired by this, my brother and I bought countless more examples of Iver Johnson break tops 10 or 12 years ago at gun shows. I was getting nice ones for $50 and corroded with broken trigger spring for $20. I can replace the trigger spring. I overloaded an IJ 38SW with a hand load that was a 38 Super +P published load. The latch stretched on the IJ and the action was loose. There is a tiny part of sheet metal with a hole in it. The hole gets stretched into an oblong shape. I mentioned something about the latch and pressure and my father, the great gun designing chief engineer, snapped at me, ~~ " That is from bullet friction and recoil on the barrel mass, not pressure ~~". It took me a while to get my mind around that. Now I use low friction soft cast bullets or balls in handloads. I use wimp loads of 1 or 2 grains of Bullseye or Unique. Here are some of the right bullets http://www.westernbullet.com/ly3150gr.html