Webley .577 6 shot revolver

[solvend]

I have inherited what I believe is a Webley .577 6-shot revolver. It was sold by James W. Rosier Melbourne as it bares his name engraved into top side of frame. I have included a couple photos along with this thread to try and find out more information and an approximated value.

Additionally I found an article discussing the sale of two Webley .577 at auction in the early 1900's where one was purportedly brought to the United States, I am wondering what the odds are that the one sent to the U.S is the one I inherited. A google search for images of a webley .577 brings up one matching photo that looks identical and its labeled a Webley No. 1 chambered in .577. My webley is in immaculate condition compared to the one google brings up.

It is in Immaculate condition and Webley & Scott from the UK has said it was made between 1866-1870 probably. Anyone an expert or wanna take a wild guess at a value for insurance purposes (would never sell a family heirloom)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...20577%20maybe/

[solvend]

It also could have been another company who licensed the production or even produced by Tranter itself. It has three markings only, two proofs on the barrel, and another thats visible on right side of frame by grips

[hrf]

Welcome to the forum, and you have a valuable heirloom!

However, there's only one Webley marked example known, and despite what Dowell's book and 20th century remnants of Webley & Scott said, they are a Tranter design, and the cylinder backplate should be marked: "Tranter's Patent" and " Braendelin's Improvement."

Your pics aren't clear enough to be certain, but it may have been refinished at some point. Even so, value would be in $5000 range, and maybe double that if original.

[solvend]

I will look at the cylinder backplate when i get home and take more photos to add to this thread. Maybe we can get to the bottom of it!

I appreciate your time and attention.

It is not marked as Webley, and i realize they licensed production out to other gun makers of the day. There is the back story that James W. Rosier from Melbourne auctioned two of these off in early 1900's. One went into a private collection and one purportedly came to the U.S. the article reads : "In October 1916, when prominent Melbourne gundealer, James Rosier, was auctioning his business, a collector by the name of Mr. H.W.Fry stood in the crowd and bid. He secured two .577 Webley revolvers, one of which in time would pass into the collection of Mr. D.L. Archer who wrote of his purchase in his notebook in 1928. The other Fry purportedly took to America."

article can be found at http://www.armscollectorsguild.com/pages/about.htm

and this one DOES bare Rosiers engraved name on the top of the frame. I think that may help tie it to being a Webley, Webley & Scott said only one version of that revolver they produced has the Webley markings. I havent found any markings so far other than the three hallmarks previously discussed.

[hrf]

It was normal for retailers's names to be marked on English firearms, and somewhere there probably are (or were) other Rosier retailed examples.

Here's the discussion of these monsters from the book: "Tranter Cartridge Firearms" (Black, Guerin, Michaud 2007, out of print).

[solvend]

It sounds like from that book that it was made by Braendlin since its a six shot. I do not think its been reconditioned at any point. If it has been it was previous to my grandfather owning it and thats been 40+ years that he had it.

I will check the cylinder backplate when i get home from work today. Any chance if i clean up and take better photos of the proof marks on barrel and frame they would help identify more specifically this revolver? I didnt see Braendlin's trademark engraved where i found it on other photos of his .577 revolvers.

[hrf]

Originally Posted by solvend

It sounds like from that book that it was made by Braendlin since its a six shot. I do not think its been reconditioned at any point. If it has been it was previous to my grandfather owning it and thats been 40+ years that he had it.

I will check the cylinder backplate when i get home from work today. Any chance if i clean up and take better photos of the proof marks on barrel and frame they would help identify more specifically this revolver? I didnt see Braendlin's trademark engraved where i found it on other photos of his .577 revolvers.

Please do not "clean" it; the proofmarks are the standard Birmingham marks, and will tell you nothing more about the gun.

Don't do any cleaning other than a wipedown with lightly oiled cotton rag.

[solvend]

Thanks for the info, I knew enuf not to scrub off anything on it...keep it as original as humanly possible...funny though my grand dad passed it to my father a few years ago when he died and October 9th we lost my dad to cancer and he had that revolver stuffed inside some old slippers someone had hand crocheted years ago...not the best storing situation...lol

I inherited a nice collection, but this .577 has my undivided attention at the moment...

[solvend]

I just got home to look for the engravings on the chamber backplate. Mine has none what so ever. And it doesn't have Braendlin trademark on left side of receiver either.

I'm thinkin maybe Webley DID make some of
These .577's.

I'll add more pics to photobucket so u can see for yourself there's no Tranter or Braendlin engravings anywhere

That make it more rare or more valuable?

[solvend]

I also have little visible wear from revolver cycling. this plate doesn't possess the ring around the edge of the chamber plate caused from reasonable use That I see in that picture u posted. There's more scratches from the chamber being taken out with the hammer fully retracted.

Is it just me, or is finding out all the juicy details of a revolver like this consuming and intriguing.

I know my grand dad owned an auto body shop and a man from the UK had him reassemble a British car and this revolver was payment or partial payment many many moons ago

[jack404]

some history for you all on this

http://www.zentus.com/johnston/rosier_bio.html

[solvend]

I uploaded more photos to that previously mentioned photobucket

[solvend]

Here is a link to a collection of pictures I have taken of the revolver so far. Notice a lack of anything on the chamber plate or anywhere else visible.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...20577%20maybe/

Thanks for looking !

[jack404]

Originally Posted by hrf

It was normal for retailers's names to be marked on English firearms, and somewhere there probably are (or were) other Rosier retailed examples..

Spot on HRF i have two of his all engraved

[hrf]

Originally Posted by solvend

I just got home to look for the engravings on the chamber backplate. Mine has none what so ever. And it doesn't have Braendlin trademark on left side of receiver either.

I'm thinkin maybe Webley DID make some of
These .577's.

I'll add more pics to photobucket so u can see for yourself there's no Tranter or Braendlin engravings anywhere

That make it more rare or more valuable?

The book states Tranter also licensed Tipping & Lawden and Webley to use his .577 design, and seven guns are shown: Two each by Tranter, Braendelin, and Tipping & Lawden; one by Webley.

The Tranters are marked Tranter's Patent on left front frame and the Webley is marked Webley's Patent in same location.

Only one of the Braendelins is marked with their crossed pennants trademark.

The Tipping & Lawdens have lever cylinder pin releases instead of a push button.

The Webley is made without a lanyard ring, and bottom of the butt is slanted upward at front like early Webley No. 2 RICs, instead of being parallel with the barrel.

You should check used sources for a copy of the book; it would be a valuable accessory.

Value wise, I doubt the maker is very significant, with condition being the important factor.

[solvend]

So I probably have the Braendelin that isn't marked since I cant see any markings on this one...what a way to narrow it down .

Hey Jack404, how would u judge the condition of the revolver from the pics I linked to a few posts up from here?

I should probably have a professional appraisal just to see if I need a rider on my homeowners to cover it..

I also inherited a MUCH newer Smith & Wesson .38 Combat Masterpiece revolver that looks brand new (I even have the box it came in and i believe its from 1960's i could easily be wrong though) serial number starts as such K979xxx says 38 S&W. SPECIAL CTG. on barrel. My grandmother had purchased it for my grandfather years ago is all I know.

[jack404]

i would ! my bet is its a commisioners pistol to good a condition from the pic's to be a work gun

snr police officers and political guards got wembleys

as it has no arrow on it it aint army issue so that means civil and here , they where restricted due to the big caliber and firepower ( until after ww1 when a lot came home )

i'll wager it was issued to "someone" or "someones guard"

so do get it checked and as for serials we have always had a firearms register for any civil issued or military issued weapons so i think if done right it should be able to be traced ..

[solvend]

Ive enjoyed piecing the story of its history together, I think through having these guns passed down to me has sparked a new interest and hobby. Received some cool stuff from granddad and my dad. Remington 1100 12 Ga. a Winchester .308 from 1968, a 22 LR, that .38 S&W Combat Masterpiece, and the BIG BOY .577.

Im hooked, just hope I can afford the hobby cause I like to do more than look at pictures online!

[jack404]

and that right there is where the hook sunk in , welcome to the addiction ! support meetings for addicts is right here daily and at your local or favourite gun shop when dollars are sufficient

[hrf]

I just learned that the book is being reprinted:

http://www.firearmsmuseum.org.au/tranter_book.htm

And Kerry's an Australian, so he may know how to trace your gun's original owner.

[jack404]

and they've updated to include my GG GF , of Bathurst NSW

easy folks to get along with too! contact em here

kerryguerin (at) ozemail.com.au

[snidervolley]

wow
i am looking to buy one of these and am not having much luck yours is a true beauty . are you shooting it?

[solvend]

For the right price I'd consider parting with mine. Just settling on a fair market price is very difficult because there are so few for sale to compare.