Voting - The Firearms Forum

millwright · 08-21-2012, 09:12 PM

"Voter Fraud" is a hot topic on both liberal and conservative blogs these days ! But is it "voter fraud" or is it "fraudulent voting" ?

"Voter fraud" implies, (at least to me), the ballot or voting process has has been compromised in order to "defraud the voter" of his selections. OTOH, fraudulent voting means, (at least to me), an active action on the part of the voter to commit the crime of casting an illegal vote. A world of difference between those two actions !

What if, come November, a close election was decided by the courts upon the fact that votes cast by fraudulent voters weren't "voter fraud" in that the vote recorded reflected the true intent of the voter ? (Remember the "hanging chads" controversy in FL in 2000 ? )

IOW, if the left is willing to embrace discussion on "voter fraud", (even if USAG Holder claims it isn't an issue.), perhaps we ought to be taking a much closer look and how the difference in my description of terms can impact the looming election ! >MW

WHSmithIV · 08-22-2012, 12:38 AM

I think what concerns me the most is these supposed cases of ballots having been cast for deceased voters. That is fraudulent voting. Another concern I have is the determined effort to prevent voters from having to show ID to vote. By having to show ID to vote, your vote gets registered to you. This then prevents an individual from going to vote in two different locations. Voters should have to show ID that shows them to be citizens of this country. Only US citizens are entitled to vote for the President and for Senators and Congressmen. Legal residents may have the right to vote in local town or city elections - that is up to the state laws though. I fear that this drive to prevent voters from having to show ID is an attempt to allow illegal votes to be cast by illegal aliens in the country.

I lived abroad for 23 years in a parliamentary democratic government country. I was allowed to vote in our local city elections as a legal resident in that city. Of course I was not allowed to vote for their president or parliament members nor would I have expected to be. I was actually surprised that I was expected to vote in the city elections.

langenc · 09-09-2012, 08:23 PM

To enter the Democrat convention ID had to be shown. To vote they want anyone to do so without ID--

Hippocritical to be sure.

Must show birth cert to attend kindergarten or to buy alcohol but not to be pres of the US??

WOW.

Jerryboy · 09-09-2012, 10:10 PM

one of the things that really pisses me off is that in order to vote in my district i have to do so at a public school, where i am denied my right to be armed, but people a couple miles away(in my home town/county but different district)can vote at the library, which doesn't have a policy regarding concealed carry

WHSmithIV · 09-09-2012, 10:27 PM

Here I have to vote at our local fire department. Ask your town/city to move the voting venue. Go to a city council meeting and make them vote on doing so.

CampingJosh · 09-09-2012, 10:48 PM

There was fraud in getting Obama's name on the ballot in Indiana in 2008; that's been proven.

We do have a voter ID requirement here. The fraudsters have to plan better than simply "vote early, vote often."

carver · 09-10-2012, 06:22 AM

Voter Fraud and fraudulent voting are both illegal. What is there to discuss? millwright, I do see your point though. Just because it's wrong, doesn't mean that the liberals will not try to make either on legal, at least in their minds.

millwright · 09-10-2012, 07:26 PM

Carver,

The current DOJ/USAG has shown itself willing to parse "intent" and obscure vaguaries of election law to the nth degree. In a close election they will determine what cases get investigated/prosecuted. Considering the Philadelphia, (NBPP), debacle its not hard to anticipate just how vigorously any claims of fraud in predominantly Democratic districts/wards will be pursued. IOW, if the weasel is guarding the henhouse, just how diligent will he be when the fox enters ? >MW

08-21-2012, 09:12 PM	#1
millwright Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,443	Voting "Voter Fraud" is a hot topic on both liberal and conservative blogs these days ! But is it "voter fraud" or is it "fraudulent voting" ? "Voter fraud" implies, (at least to me), the ballot or voting process has has been compromised in order to "defraud the voter" of his selections. OTOH, fraudulent voting means, (at least to me), an active action on the part of the voter to commit the crime of casting an illegal vote. A world of difference between those two actions ! What if, come November, a close election was decided by the courts upon the fact that votes cast by fraudulent voters weren't "voter fraud" in that the vote recorded reflected the true intent of the voter ? (Remember the "hanging chads" controversy in FL in 2000 ? ) IOW, if the left is willing to embrace discussion on "voter fraud", (even if USAG Holder claims it isn't an issue.), perhaps we ought to be taking a much closer look and how the difference in my description of terms can impact the looming election ! >MW -->

08-22-2012, 12:38 AM	#2
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,798	Re: Voting I think what concerns me the most is these supposed cases of ballots having been cast for deceased voters. That is fraudulent voting. Another concern I have is the determined effort to prevent voters from having to show ID to vote. By having to show ID to vote, your vote gets registered to you. This then prevents an individual from going to vote in two different locations. Voters should have to show ID that shows them to be citizens of this country. Only US citizens are entitled to vote for the President and for Senators and Congressmen. Legal residents may have the right to vote in local town or city elections - that is up to the state laws though. I fear that this drive to prevent voters from having to show ID is an attempt to allow illegal votes to be cast by illegal aliens in the country. I lived abroad for 23 years in a parliamentary democratic government country. I was allowed to vote in our local city elections as a legal resident in that city. Of course I was not allowed to vote for their president or parliament members nor would I have expected to be. I was actually surprised that I was expected to vote in the city elections. Last edited by WHSmithIV; 08-22-2012 at 12:40 AM..

09-09-2012, 08:23 PM	#3
langenc V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 428	Re: Voting To enter the Democrat convention ID had to be shown. To vote they want anyone to do so without ID-- Hippocritical to be sure. Must show birth cert to attend kindergarten or to buy alcohol but not to be pres of the US?? WOW.

09-09-2012, 10:10 PM	#4
Jerryboy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Virginia Posts: 770	Re: Voting one of the things that really pisses me off is that in order to vote in my district i have to do so at a public school, where i am denied my right to be armed, but people a couple miles away(in my home town/county but different district)can vote at the library, which doesn't have a policy regarding concealed carry __________________ "If voting could change anything for the better, it'd be illegal." -Unknown "If good intentions were horses, politicians would own glue factories" -Jeremiah Thompson Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

09-09-2012, 10:27 PM	#5
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,798	Re: Voting Here I have to vote at our local fire department. Ask your town/city to move the voting venue. Go to a city council meeting and make them vote on doing so.

09-09-2012, 10:48 PM	#6
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,800	Re: Voting There was fraud in getting Obama's name on the ballot in Indiana in 2008; that's been proven. We do have a voter ID requirement here. The fraudsters have to plan better than simply "vote early, vote often." __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

09-10-2012, 06:22 AM	#7
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,542	Re: Voting Voter Fraud and fraudulent voting are both illegal. What is there to discuss? millwright, I do see your point though. Just because it's wrong, doesn't mean that the liberals will not try to make either on legal, at least in their minds. __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old. Last edited by carver; 09-10-2012 at 06:24 AM..

09-10-2012, 07:26 PM	#8
millwright Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,443	Re: Voting Carver, The current DOJ/USAG has shown itself willing to parse "intent" and obscure vaguaries of election law to the nth degree. In a close election they will determine what cases get investigated/prosecuted. Considering the Philadelphia, (NBPP), debacle its not hard to anticipate just how vigorously any claims of fraud in predominantly Democratic districts/wards will be pursued. IOW, if the weasel is guarding the henhouse, just how diligent will he be when the fox enters ? >MW