rifle 1917 identity help - The Firearms Forum

oldfartrr · 09-13-2012, 03:17 PM

cant seem to find or not looking in right places ?? THOUGHT that they were all made in NY, Pennsylvania, or Connecticut... and WHO made it ????
have an enfield P-17 or 1917 model rifle picked up about 30 yrs ago, have just enjoyed it. now trying to find out just exactly what it is. was partially sporterized by owner before me, no metal mods, not bad but not great, i cleaned it up and cold blued it to help its looks. had grind marks on top of action, previous owner said it had all kinds of symbols and such he didnt like on it ??. probably all the arsenal and other id marks needed. stock was shortened to the barrel band and very nice walnut, cleaned it up and tung oiled it and it looks very nice. and a great shooter, has taken a few deer and several pigs and 2 black bear.
on the barrel behind the site is marked cal 30-06 and ST.ALB,VT U.S.A.
i hand filed all the grinder marks off (he didnt go deep enough to damage anything just the id marks. on sides and bottom of action have attached some info that maybe someone can id for me...serial # seems very low 05997 ..
maybe jack has some ideas ??

300 H&H · 09-13-2012, 09:55 PM

These rifles were originally made under contract for the Britts in .303 caliber. We eintered the war with too few 1903 Springfield rifles. It was more cost effective, and much faster to remake them in 30/06 for US troops. That is the rifle you have, the US version.

They were made in three places. Winchester, Remington Arms, and Eddystone arsenal. Eddy stone was under the managment of Remington during the production of the 1917 rifle. These are the three markings of who made them you will encounter on the front reciever bridge. They were only made in 1918-19. Original barrels have the stamp of the maker, and a barrel date behind the front sight. I don't know of the markings you show, other thatn inspetors marks or proof marks....I think your barrel may have been replaced, as it is without a date.

They are a fine rifle, in some ways better than the 1903. The cock on closing of the bolt has few admirer's these days however....

Regards, Kirk

BillM · 09-13-2012, 10:29 PM

I'm going to guess and say this one spent some time out of the US.

The St Alb VT is probably the import mark for Century Arms. There were
and maybe still are several countries that used the 1917, maybe some of
the weird marks are proof or unit marks for ?????.

jack404 · 09-21-2012, 05:23 PM

agree with BillM

CAI ST ALB VT, is an import mark from Century Arms in Vermont

oldfartrr · 09-22-2012, 01:53 PM

thanks for the help guys,,
thought someone might be able to decipher some of the markings
she is a great shooter so doesnt really matter, just curious

B27 · 09-26-2012, 08:56 AM

Whatever Bubba did that to your stock needs to be thrashed severely.

People that do that to these older historical guns are defacing history, IMHO.

jack404 · 09-26-2012, 09:07 AM

Not bubba'd at all

there where sappers versions not just sappers used em , but thats the name they had , artillery and a few other folks got em as they weighed a pound lighter

mortar men got them a few others

air force ( army air corps) too

jack404 · 09-26-2012, 09:08 AM

6 main variants i think from memory probably wrong , but around there ..

oldfartrr · 09-30-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B27

Whatever Bubba did that to your stock needs to be thrashed severely.

People that do that to these older historical guns are defacing history, IMHO.

i agree but u should have seen it before i cleaned it up,, was just sawed off and grind marks on top of reciever.

a bit of sandpaper and oil on the stock. filed and sanded the top of reciever ,, and a bit of cold blue.
dont think $50 was too bad an investment

Jim K · 11-23-2012, 07:40 PM

CAI ST ALB VT stands for Century Arms Inc., St. Albans, Vermont; as noted, it is the importer's mark, not that of the original manufacturer.

There were no variations of the U.S.-made Pattern 1914 or the U.S. Model 1917; there may have been "sapper's" or other variations of some British rifles other than those made in the U.S.

Jim

whirley · 11-26-2012, 04:47 PM

Eddystone and Winchester marked the 1917 rifles with their name on top of the receiver in the front. I never saw a Remington, but I'l guess they probably did the same.

gunboat · 12-09-2012, 05:37 PM

Actually I don't see it as "bubba'd" either -- Seems to look decent --
Probably bought for about $20-30 in the late 60's or 70's --
Stock looks to be neatly cut --
Can't speak to the owners thoughts about grinding off the marking --
But, all in all a nice cheap hunting rifle that is a bit lighter --

We tend to look at yesterday with todays eyes.

Redhand · 12-09-2012, 05:54 PM

If my memory serves me right, which it seldom does anymore,Remington made a civilian version of this rifle designated the 30A. It may have been modified more than yours.

gunboat · 12-10-2012, 02:55 PM

I think the rem 30a was built on the same receiver without the sight "ears".

BulletArc47 · 12-10-2012, 09:50 PM

I can't really help

, but I love trying find out the history of used guns, especially military arms that have circulated outside of the US. It is a subject of great interest to me.

And as for sportorizing a used military gun, it really depends on the model of the gun, its value, its condition,so on so forth.

09-13-2012, 03:17 PM	#1
oldfartrr V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: northern calif Posts: 292	rifle 1917 identity help cant seem to find or not looking in right places ?? THOUGHT that they were all made in NY, Pennsylvania, or Connecticut... and WHO made it ???? have an enfield P-17 or 1917 model rifle picked up about 30 yrs ago, have just enjoyed it. now trying to find out just exactly what it is. was partially sporterized by owner before me, no metal mods, not bad but not great, i cleaned it up and cold blued it to help its looks. had grind marks on top of action, previous owner said it had all kinds of symbols and such he didnt like on it ??. probably all the arsenal and other id marks needed. stock was shortened to the barrel band and very nice walnut, cleaned it up and tung oiled it and it looks very nice. and a great shooter, has taken a few deer and several pigs and 2 black bear. on the barrel behind the site is marked cal 30-06 and ST.ALB,VT U.S.A. i hand filed all the grinder marks off (he didnt go deep enough to damage anything just the id marks. on sides and bottom of action have attached some info that maybe someone can id for me...serial # seems very low 05997 .. maybe jack has some ideas ?? Attached Images --> Last edited by oldfartrr; 09-13-2012 at 06:10 PM..

09-13-2012, 09:55 PM	#2
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: rifle 1917 identity help These rifles were originally made under contract for the Britts in .303 caliber. We eintered the war with too few 1903 Springfield rifles. It was more cost effective, and much faster to remake them in 30/06 for US troops. That is the rifle you have, the US version. They were made in three places. Winchester, Remington Arms, and Eddystone arsenal. Eddy stone was under the managment of Remington during the production of the 1917 rifle. These are the three markings of who made them you will encounter on the front reciever bridge. They were only made in 1918-19. Original barrels have the stamp of the maker, and a barrel date behind the front sight. I don't know of the markings you show, other thatn inspetors marks or proof marks....I think your barrel may have been replaced, as it is without a date. They are a fine rifle, in some ways better than the 1903. The cock on closing of the bolt has few admirer's these days however.... Regards, Kirk

09-13-2012, 10:29 PM	#3
BillM V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Amity Orygun Posts: 380	Re: rifle 1917 identity help I'm going to guess and say this one spent some time out of the US. The St Alb VT is probably the import mark for Century Arms. There were and maybe still are several countries that used the 1917, maybe some of the weird marks are proof or unit marks for ?????.

09-21-2012, 05:23 PM	#4
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: rifle 1917 identity help agree with BillM CAI ST ALB VT, is an import mark from Century Arms in Vermont

09-22-2012, 01:53 PM	#5
oldfartrr V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: northern calif Posts: 292	Re: rifle 1917 identity help thanks for the help guys,, thought someone might be able to decipher some of the markings she is a great shooter so doesnt really matter, just curious

09-26-2012, 08:56 AM	#6
B27 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 415	Re: rifle 1917 identity help Whatever Bubba did that to your stock needs to be thrashed severely. People that do that to these older historical guns are defacing history, IMHO. __________________ "Do not stand beside the road and argue with a fool...lest others in passing take you also for a fool."

09-26-2012, 09:07 AM	#7
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: rifle 1917 identity help Not bubba'd at all there where sappers versions not just sappers used em , but thats the name they had , artillery and a few other folks got em as they weighed a pound lighter mortar men got them a few others air force ( army air corps) too

09-26-2012, 09:08 AM	#8
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: rifle 1917 identity help 6 main variants i think from memory probably wrong , but around there ..

11-23-2012, 07:40 PM	#10
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: rifle 1917 identity help CAI ST ALB VT stands for Century Arms Inc., St. Albans, Vermont; as noted, it is the importer's mark, not that of the original manufacturer. There were no variations of the U.S.-made Pattern 1914 or the U.S. Model 1917; there may have been "sapper's" or other variations of some British rifles other than those made in the U.S. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 11-23-2012 at 07:42 PM..

11-26-2012, 04:47 PM	#11
whirley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Contributor Posts: 457	Re: rifle 1917 identity help Eddystone and Winchester marked the 1917 rifles with their name on top of the receiver in the front. I never saw a Remington, but I'l guess they probably did the same.

12-09-2012, 05:37 PM	#12
gunboat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Josie Posts: 95	Re: rifle 1917 identity help Actually I don't see it as "bubba'd" either -- Seems to look decent -- Probably bought for about $20-30 in the late 60's or 70's -- Stock looks to be neatly cut -- Can't speak to the owners thoughts about grinding off the marking -- But, all in all a nice cheap hunting rifle that is a bit lighter -- We tend to look at yesterday with todays eyes.

12-09-2012, 05:54 PM	#13
Redhand Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 605	Re: rifle 1917 identity help If my memory serves me right, which it seldom does anymore,Remington made a civilian version of this rifle designated the 30A. It may have been modified more than yours. __________________ LAMH DERG EIRIN ABU

12-10-2012, 02:55 PM	#14
gunboat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Josie Posts: 95	Re: rifle 1917 identity help I think the rem 30a was built on the same receiver without the sight "ears".

12-10-2012, 09:50 PM	#15
BulletArc47 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 259	Re: rifle 1917 identity help I can't really help, but I love trying find out the history of used guns, especially military arms that have circulated outside of the US. It is a subject of great interest to me. And as for sportorizing a used military gun, it really depends on the model of the gun, its value, its condition,so on so forth. __________________ “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.” – George Washington If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all. – Jacob Hornberger (1995) “Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” – Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi Last edited by BulletArc47; 12-10-2012 at 10:05 PM..