Looking to buy a 45 handgun - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

PanhandlePop · 09-02-2012, 06:57 PM

I'm a huge 1911 fan and have a Glock 30 that is a fine little gun and surprisingly accurate. However, your question is one only you can answer. I agree with jj; study and analyze your options, handle as many different guns as you can, and, if possible, find some way to shoot those that you think will be best suited to your likes.

RuffLock · 09-02-2012, 08:53 PM

I am strongly considering a purchase of the FNP-45 as well. I would love to hear any future range reports on your experiences with it. Also considering upgrading my M&P 40C to a 45. Still undecided yet.

I hope you have a great time with your new purchase. Don't forget to put a 1911 in your collection soon. I was one of the late comers to that party, but they are definitely the most fun to shoot.

WHSmithIV · 09-03-2012, 12:03 AM

Since the Pandora's box has been opened and as an ex-Navy Petty Officer I'll go ahead and throw my 2 cents worth in.

The 1911 is - in my opinion - the finest pistol ever created. As a concealed carry weapon, not the first weapon of choice. As a home defense weapon, perfect. As an open carry weapon perfect.

The simple reality is that a .45 that is ACCURATE at 50 ft. is simply not a good conceal carry weapon because of it's size. There are small, short barrel 45 ACP pistols out there, but due to the size of the bullet when you fire it through a 2" barrel you are sacrificing accuracy for the size of the bullet.

Accuracy is in direct proportion to 5 variables. The size of the projectile, the length of the barrel it is fired trough, the degree of rifling in the barrel to give the projectile spin, the pressure exerted on the projectile from the explosion of the combustible inside the cartridge and the distance required for the best possible accuracy. If all 5 variables are matched perfectly you get the most perfect accuracy for a given projectile size at a specific distance with a specific length barrel.

So, my 5" barrel 1911 is definitely my preferred handgun of choice. My preferred concealed carry weapon is a .380 with a 3.5" barrel.

Double D · 09-03-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

Since the Pandora's box has been opened and as an ex-Navy Petty Officer I'll go ahead and throw my 2 cents worth in.

The 1911 is - in my opinion - the finest pistol ever created. As a concealed carry weapon, not the first weapon of choice. As a home defense weapon, perfect. As an open carry weapon perfect.

The simple reality is that a .45 that is ACCURATE at 50 ft. is simply not a good conceal carry weapon because of it's size. There are small, short barrel 45 ACP pistols out there, but due to the size of the bullet when you fire it through a 2" barrel you are sacrificing accuracy for the size of the bullet.

Accuracy is in direct proportion to 5 variables. The size of the projectile, the length of the barrel it is fired trough, the degree of rifling in the barrel to give the projectile spin, the pressure exerted on the projectile from the explosion of the combustible inside the cartridge and the distance required for the best possible accuracy. If all 5 variables are matched perfectly you get the most perfect accuracy for a given projectile size at a specific distance with a specific length barrel.

So, my 5" barrel 1911 is definitely my preferred handgun of choice. My preferred concealed carry weapon is a .380 with a 3.5" barrel.

Completely disagree. Go with a 1911 commander with a scandium frame and its the cats meow in a carry gun. I consider a 380 a backup.

Buffalochip · 09-03-2012, 07:53 AM

If your wife is going to use it, I'd get her input as to what feels comfortable shooting--not just holding. If a gun makes her flinch or is too heavy, she won't learn to shoot it well.

CJ_56 · 09-03-2012, 08:59 AM

I can't believe how people answer every question with a response that is totally unrelated to the question. The OP asked about Glocks vs. Sigs. Not any other brand or type or configuration or color or weight or concealed carry ability. It was a very specific question dealing with a home defense and practice weapon.

The answer is that yes there are differences between Glocks and Sigs. Glocks are great carry guns but for target practice they are not so great at least not compared to a good Sig. Sig makes some of the most accurate firearms being sold and the P220 often ranks as the #1 choice among all handguns when people have polls on websites like this one.

A Glock will be lighter. A Sig will be more accurate. A Glock can hold more rounds in a mag but you can always buy a handful of mags and make that Sig just as effective or close to it.

There are great differences in how the two operate also. You won't see any single action Glocks (at least AFAIK) while there are lots of single action Sigs. They are generally single action / double action guns actually. For target shooting that makes a huge difference.

In short if you want a gun just for self defense either the Glock or the Sig will do fine. If you want a very accurate target pistol get the Sig. Glock doesn't make target quality handguns AFAIK.

Of course things like ergonomics matter a lot. If that Sig is too big for your hand or the Glock is too small you will want something else. You need a gun that won't hurt your hand when you shoot it because you MUST practice with any SD weapon if you expect it to be effective at protecting you.

Personally I've looked at Glocks with the intention of buying one for concealed carry but I've always ended up with something else because Glocks just aren't made to fit my hands. I do own a Sig P220. For a home defense gun they are excellent as long as you know that walls don't stop bullets unless they're concrete walls or block walls or basement walls (exterior basement walls). I have my Sig right next to me in my desk drawer. But I have pistols all over the place so... I have other brands besides Sig.

Still the answer to your question is yes there are differences and they do matter a lot actually. You should do a lot more research IMO before you make your choice or you can do what us gun junkies do - buy both.

They are both fine guns. They are just different.

Double D · 09-03-2012, 09:35 AM

CJ, You need to go back and re-read the OPs question. The thread says looking to buy a 45 handgun. While the two guns are mentioned, he also says ANY advice is welcome. So, while you just cant believe the crazy answers, we will continue to make suggestions.

CJ_56 · 09-09-2012, 08:53 PM

Come on Double D. He was talking strictly about Glocks vs. Sigs. His call for advice seemed to totally be about that question to me. But I tend to take people for what they actually say instead of what they mean to say. Maybe he does want advice on any gun on the planet. It just doesn't seem like that's what he asked to me. He mentioned Glocks and Sigs several times and asked about advice concerning those two companies. It seems very clear to me. It certainly won't hurt him to hear about other guns but he did ask specifically about Glocks and Sigs.

I can't say as I agree with the thing about 1911's being the perfect home defense gun either. And, like you, I don't think they are out of the realm of good CCW guns. I carried my Sig P220 for years as a CCW gun and it's as big as many 1911's I've seen and a lot bigger than some.

But they do suffer from a lack of capacity (before swapping mags) which other guns don't do. That's not a terrible fault but it is a fault and keeps them from being a "perfect" HD gun.

Also I certainly don't agree that while the 1911 is accurate at 50 ft. I don't agree that other guns aren't accurate at that distance. Maybe he meant 50 yards because a 1911 (a good one) will shoot accurate at that distance and so will a Sig P220. The original Sig 210 was a 2" group handgun at 50 yards. The new 210's are said to be capable of 1" groups at 50 yards. Of course those are 9mm guns for the most part but some of the original 210's were .45's.

At any rate I have a Taurus .45 that will shoot very accurately at 50 feet and it has a much shorter barrel than a true 1911. I have shot empty .45 casings at 20 yards (60 feet) and hit every one I shot at with that pistol. It's a PT-145 Mil. Pro. SA/DA. It is a VERY accurate pistols in fact for only having a 3.25" barrel.

CJ_56 · 09-10-2012, 01:44 AM

Dang! Double post.

GLS_1956 · 09-10-2012, 06:23 AM

All I can say is while my exwife never went shooting with me. Decades ago I took out a few guns for another friend's wife to fire. She is a petite woman, and she was able to fire the 1911 far easier that the Browning Hi-Power. The 1911's single column magazine made it fit her hand much better.

graehaven · 09-10-2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ_56

In short if you want a gun just for self defense either the Glock or the Sig will do fine. If you want a very accurate target pistol get the Sig. Glock doesn't make target quality handguns AFAIK.

Hickock45 would totally disagree with that assessment. The Glock is PLENTY accurate.
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45...e=results_main

graehaven · 09-10-2012, 06:52 AM

As for Scuba's question....

Shoot a Glock, see if you like it. It's a fine weapon, although it's not for everyone.

Shoot the Sig, it's great too. See if it's for you.

Shoot a 1911 (you should own at least ONE eventually - took me almost 20 years).

See which one is for you. That's all you can do.

For me, I'd carry/use for home (and do) the Glock all day long. Biggest reason? NO EXTERNAL SAFETY.

Double D · 09-10-2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadiver12165

After going to the shooting range a few times and taken an intro to handgun class, I'm finally ready to buy a handgun to use at the range for practice and for home protection. I enjoy shooting a 45 so that is what I'm looking as far as caliber size. I had one person recommended a sig and another a glock. I'm hoping that the folks here can give me your advice on which to get. Aren't both of them roughly the same. I have medium size hand and whatever gun I bought, I want my wife to be able to use it too. I've been looking at the Glock G21sf and the G30SF. As far as sig goes, I don't know which model that I should even be looking at. Any recommendations and suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Re read this post, ANY RECOMENDATIONS AND SUGGESTIONS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED. I rest my case.
Besides that, so what?

rogertc1 · 09-10-2012, 11:30 AM

If you want a inexpensive 45 pistol look at a Cobra Patriot 45ACP. $300 NIB Reliable and even made in the USA

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...atriot_062207/

Blackshirts · 09-10-2012, 01:47 PM

I would have to say if someone who seems to be new to handguns and his first purchase decision process is based off just 2 suggestions from 1 guy who likes Glock and 1 guy who likes Sig that anyone who would NOT offer other suggestions is doing the poster a huge disservice. If they are obviously unsure of their purchase and you know there are other comparable, or even better, options and you do not offer them the information so they can be more informed of what is available to them you are not helping to them at all. It seems to me had the first guy he talked to been a 1911 guy the question would have been "1911 or Sig?".

CJ_56 · 09-11-2012, 01:33 AM

I don't believe there are better choices than the Sigs and Glocks to be honest. There are other equal quality guns or close to it. But a Sig is a very high quality handgun and I chose one over a 1911 and don't regret it for a second. Glocks can also be very good weapons. There are many good weapons. But he asked about Sigs and Glocks. And it isn't like this is the only example of such things happening. It always happens even when there are no hairs to split to make wiggle room to chime in with your own favorite choice. I could go on and on about grammar and how a paragraph has a specific and limited thought involved especially when it is spelled out as such. Mainly I don't think adding a lot of confusion to the answer is doing the OP a favor. In fact I think he chose two very good examples of handguns that are both very popular for different reasons and he was asking about whether there was a difference. Just answering the question asked is not such a bad idea IMO.

It isn't the end of the world or anything or even important. But I do think people should try to limit their answers to the questions asked. It helps to avoid the avalanche of information we see every time a newbie comes along and asks about guns. Too much information is as bad as not enough. And I think someone gave him pretty good advice on a couple of guns that would work very well for him. I don't think he needed the whole history of the gun as an answer. In fact I think it overwhelms people. That was and is my point. If I told you someone said I should buy either a Porsche or a Chevy Blazer would you feel compelled to tell me about the Model A? Because let's face it, the 1911 is essentially the Model A of handguns. That doesn't make it bad. In fact I think we all know they have great qualities. So did the Model A. I'm just saying we might want to limit our comments to the discussion at hand and all hair splitting aside I can dig out my grammar books and prove that his question was technically about only Sigs and Glocks. Paragraphs are limited to a particular subject just like sentences are. But gee whiz do we have to get into all that? I hope not. It was pretty obvious he wanted to know about Sigs and Glocks. Not Model A's.

It really isn't worth all this much fuss at any rate. I certainly ain't the paragraph police. I was just suggesting we try to stick to the subject rather than turning every single thread into a 1911 love fest. There are other guns in the world and many of them are very nice. For example when was the last time you saw a 1911 with a 13 round capacity like the Glock 21? What about the more modern safeties on Glocks? Some 1911's aren't California approved BTW. Maybe that's why his friend simplified his search to Glocks and Sigs. Aren't we assuming a lot when we assume the OP needs information not asked for?

CJ_56 · 09-11-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

The Glock is PLENTY accurate.

I somehow missed this post when I posted above. Sorry but I disagree that a Glock can compete with 1911's and with most Sigs in fact. I don't think most people believe they are as accurate as some other guns because they are built to be functional in all conditions. That means tolerances that aren't as tight as they could be and that means less accuracy. Show me a Glock that will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards and I'll believe you. If you're asking if Sigs will do this some were designed to do just that.

From the Truth About Guns web page:

The P210 is renowned for its accuracy. The design specs calls for every P210 to be capable of putting five rounds into a 2 inch circle at 50 yards before leaving the factory. As with some of SIGs higher end pistols, a test fire target is included in the box.

AFAIK no such claims were ever made about Glocks. And yes Sigs can shoot this well. The new Sig P210 Legend is supposed to do a 1" group at 50 yards before leaving the factory. My P220 will do 2"-3" at 50 yards from a rest if I practice up a good bit before I try it. I've shot 2" groups with it from that distance. It won't do it every time but then I'm not the best shooter in the world either.

Don't get me wrong. I like Glocks. I started to buy one once. I had it in my head that I was going to buy one and I had the money in my pocket. But I couldn't find one that fit my hand well so I ended up with something else. I also came very close to buying a 1911 once. I tried to hand the money to the guy who had it and I was paying more than it was worth but he wouldn't sell.

Now I really hope we don't have to hash out every single point. I think you'll find it's common for people to believe Glocks are not as accurate as Sigs.

Double D · 09-11-2012, 07:29 AM

How about a CZ? Or an XDM? I cant stand a glock....

I would go with a 1911...

CJ_56 · 09-11-2012, 09:38 AM

Well I've got an XDm in .40 and I started to buy a CZ just recently but ended up buying a Ruger instead. I still want the CZ so likely as not it will be on the Christmas list or whatever (if I can wait that long

). I talked my friend into buying a CZ and he carries it everywhere he goes and can't stop talking about how great it is. And he's right. I have to remind him that I was the one that sold him on the idea in the first place every time I see him because he goes on and on about that thing and I know he has at least 20 pistols.

I have been carrying the XDm mostly as a truck gun. I often carry a Taurus too. Now that's a great gun and it's a .45.

There's a bunch of nice stuff around. Heck I could be carrying my .44 magnum S&W 629 but I figure shooting one person at a time is plenty.

I mostly carry that one for close encounters of the bear kind.

graehaven · 09-11-2012, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ_56

I somehow missed this post when I posted above. Sorry but I disagree that a Glock can compete with 1911's and with most Sigs in fact. I don't think most people believe they are as accurate as some other guns because they are built to be functional in all conditions. That means tolerances that aren't as tight as they could be and that means less accuracy. Show me a Glock that will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards and I'll believe you. If you're asking if Sigs will do this some were designed to do just that.

From the Truth About Guns web page:

The P210 is renowned for its accuracy. The design specs calls for every P210 to be capable of putting five rounds into a 2 inch circle at 50 yards before leaving the factory. As with some of SIGs higher end pistols, a test fire target is included in the box.

AFAIK no such claims were ever made about Glocks. And yes Sigs can shoot this well. The new Sig P210 Legend is supposed to do a 1" group at 50 yards before leaving the factory. My P220 will do 2"-3" at 50 yards from a rest if I practice up a good bit before I try it. I've shot 2" groups with it from that distance. It won't do it every time but then I'm not the best shooter in the world either.

Don't get me wrong. I like Glocks. I started to buy one once. I had it in my head that I was going to buy one and I had the money in my pocket. But I couldn't find one that fit my hand well so I ended up with something else. I also came very close to buying a 1911 once. I tried to hand the money to the guy who had it and I was paying more than it was worth but he wouldn't sell.

Now I really hope we don't have to hash out every single point. I think you'll find it's common for people to believe Glocks are not as accurate as Sigs.

Here's a quote from the article you posted the link to:
One of them asked me, “How about a P210?” I couldn’t believe that they had one. The P210 is an almost mythical gun – you hear about it, but you rarely see it. It’s manufactured in very small quantities and you have to look long and hard to find someone who has it in stock. A few months ago while contemplating the purchase of a highly accurate gun for IDPA that could make up for some of my shortcomings . . .
I had considered the P210, but when I asked about its availability, the pro shop guys kind of laughed and said good luck finding one.

So, the gun you want to prop up against the glock isn't actually a true production model at all. Seems a bit disingenuous. You also stated that the Glock should fire a 1 inch group, while the Sig was 5 rounds in a 2 inch group. Um, is it two or one?

I believe the glock is capable of it for the 2 inch, if we're going to be fair against the Sig. But, I don't think the Sig 210 is a fair candidate. It's a small run production model, and rare.

So, perhaps a fair comparison would be a long slide 9mm Glock against an equal length Sig 9mm, eh? Or, a .45 against the 220?

Seeing how the P210 also has a hefty $2200 price tag, not in the same class as a Glock either. For that price, it better put 5 rounds in a 2 inch group, OR BETTER. Sheeesh.

Truly an apples and oranges comparison.

Perhaps a test at 50 feet would be sufficient. It would be for me anyway.

How do you like the P220? I've always wanted a Sig, but the $1,000 price tag always chases me away.

LDBennett · 09-11-2012, 08:34 PM

It is not fair throwing in a ringer like a Sig P210 but there are other Sigs that are as accurate and probably more accurate than almost any Glock. The one of note is the P220 in 45ACP.

Sigs, if you have not inspected one, are beautifully made, and are accurate as well. They are all metal (or at least the ones I would recommend are). They will out last any plastic gun. Maybe you don't care if the gun will last decades or even many decades. If that is the case go with any old plastic throw away gun...it matters not which one. But if you want a quality gun, made to last, made to shoot accurately then go with a Sig, new or used. Sig themselves offer used ones turned in from police forces all over the USA. Most often those guns are carried a lot and fired little so would probably be in great shape.

Another all metal gun that you really should be considering is the CZ 97B in 45ACP. It is a large gun but excellent. There is also a clone of it from EAA (Witness) that in my case shoots right along with the Sig 97B but with the Witness there is more variability from gun to gun. Some of us won and other, not so much. The CZ 97B is every bit as nicely made and as accurate as the SIG P220, in my opinion.

If you did not get that I do not like plastic guns, I'll say it now...I DO NOT LIKE PLASTIC GUNS! That's a choice of MINE. I have an early P220 (marked Browning, who imported them at the time), the CZ 97B, the Witness, a Colt 1911 (actually in 10mm but close enough), and a Rock Island 1911 that has all match internal parts I installed...All in 45ACP (except the Colt Delta Elite). I have NO plastic guns. All the above pistols are excellent and I would recommend any one of them. But I have a special place in my heart for my Sig P220.

LDBennett

graehaven · 09-12-2012, 09:33 AM

LD, aren't you a fellow fan of Kel-tec though?

LDBennett · 09-12-2012, 05:32 PM

NO!!!!!

LDBennett

CJ_56 · 09-12-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

So, the gun you want to prop up against the glock isn't actually a true production model at all.

You may want to check out the P210 Legend. And that article is full of bull. They were not a small run. They made as many as they could make and sell. They made them up until the late 1980's. They weren't expensive either. Now the Legend is very expensive. But the original P210 was just not that popular among many shooters who didn't really like 9mm handguns at the time. It was before the modern 9mm cartridges became available. But just for the record there were 350,000 of the original P210's made. That's hardly a small run. Keep in mind that the 210 is back in production with an upgrade or two but the new guns are a limited production unlike the original. I don't know how many they will make but again, the original was NOT a limited production pistol.

And the 210 is just one example of what a Sig can do. The article pointed out that the P220 was the direct descendant of the 210 and I plainly said my 220 can do 2" groups at 50 yards but certainly not every time. It does shoot very accurate though and I doubt you will find any Glock that will match it's accuracy.

You can prop up Glocks all day. There's no way they are as accurate as Sigs. It's a well known fact. They weren't designed to be as accurate as Sigs. That doesn't make them bad guns. I clearly said I like them. So I'm not "putting them up" against Sigs. I'm just describing the differences in the guns and the facts as I know them.

If you doubt my conclusions try the ones on this web page where the 21 is compared to the P220. He rated the accuracy of the Sig much higher but he rated the Glock as a better buy. Makes sense to me but I could shoot my Sig better than he shot his any day of the week. But then he didn't spend any time figuring out the best load or practicing from what I could tell. That's not much of a way to run a test IMO but that's pretty much how they all go. For a better test of accuracy he should have fired from a rest instead of off-hand but he didn't. Just for the record the Sig managed a 3.5" group at 25 yards while the Glock couldn't do better than 8". Both were fired off-hand.

There are plenty of other places on the net that agree with what I said about the Sig being more accurate. I suggest you use Google if you want to read them yourself.

44 Special · 09-13-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadiver12165

After going to the shooting range a few times and taken an intro to handgun class, I'm finally ready to buy a handgun to use at the range for practice and for home protection. I enjoy shooting a 45 so that is what I'm looking as far as caliber size. I had one person recommended a sig and another a glock. I'm hoping that the folks here can give me your advice on which to get. Aren't both of them roughly the same. I have medium size hand and whatever gun I bought, I want my wife to be able to use it too. I've been looking at the Glock G21sf and the G30SF. As far as sig goes, I don't know which model that I should even be looking at. Any recommendations and suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

You didn't mention price in your post ,however,I see you are already looking at Glocks. Also,beside home defense,and target,will it be used for concealed carry ?

As mentioned already,you will get a ton of advise of which is the best.45 auto.Someone already posted about feel,& fit.This is very important .As already suggested,I would go to a shooting range where you can rent,and shoot several makes,and models.From there,I think you'll see from you target grouping,which is best for you !

I own 1911's,Sigs,Glocks,and several others .I practice with my 1911's,but find myself carrying my Glocks. The thing I like most about a Glock,or Sig,is right out of the box,with no modifications,they are ready to go.This is not always the case with a 1911 in the same price range.

If price is not a barrier,and you like the 1911 profile,then Kimber Springfield Armory,Para Ordnance are a good choice.Wilson Combat,Les Baer,and a few other custom 1911's will also serve you well right out of the box ,if you're willing to spend over $2000,or more.

E.A.A,along with Ruger also makes some affordable,and reliable .45 autos.Take your time,shop,and shoot !

09-02-2012, 06:57 PM	#26
PanhandlePop V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 252	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun I'm a huge 1911 fan and have a Glock 30 that is a fine little gun and surprisingly accurate. However, your question is one only you can answer. I agree with jj; study and analyze your options, handle as many different guns as you can, and, if possible, find some way to shoot those that you think will be best suited to your likes.

09-02-2012, 08:53 PM	#27
RuffLock Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Northern VA Posts: 23	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun I am strongly considering a purchase of the FNP-45 as well. I would love to hear any future range reports on your experiences with it. Also considering upgrading my M&P 40C to a 45. Still undecided yet. I hope you have a great time with your new purchase. Don't forget to put a 1911 in your collection soon. I was one of the late comers to that party, but they are definitely the most fun to shoot.

09-03-2012, 12:03 AM	#28
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,608	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun Since the Pandora's box has been opened and as an ex-Navy Petty Officer I'll go ahead and throw my 2 cents worth in. The 1911 is - in my opinion - the finest pistol ever created. As a concealed carry weapon, not the first weapon of choice. As a home defense weapon, perfect. As an open carry weapon perfect. The simple reality is that a .45 that is ACCURATE at 50 ft. is simply not a good conceal carry weapon because of it's size. There are small, short barrel 45 ACP pistols out there, but due to the size of the bullet when you fire it through a 2" barrel you are sacrificing accuracy for the size of the bullet. Accuracy is in direct proportion to 5 variables. The size of the projectile, the length of the barrel it is fired trough, the degree of rifling in the barrel to give the projectile spin, the pressure exerted on the projectile from the explosion of the combustible inside the cartridge and the distance required for the best possible accuracy. If all 5 variables are matched perfectly you get the most perfect accuracy for a given projectile size at a specific distance with a specific length barrel. So, my 5" barrel 1911 is definitely my preferred handgun of choice. My preferred concealed carry weapon is a .380 with a 3.5" barrel.

09-03-2012, 07:53 AM	#30
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun If your wife is going to use it, I'd get her input as to what feels comfortable shooting--not just holding. If a gun makes her flinch or is too heavy, she won't learn to shoot it well.

09-03-2012, 08:59 AM	#31
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun I can't believe how people answer every question with a response that is totally unrelated to the question. The OP asked about Glocks vs. Sigs. Not any other brand or type or configuration or color or weight or concealed carry ability. It was a very specific question dealing with a home defense and practice weapon. The answer is that yes there are differences between Glocks and Sigs. Glocks are great carry guns but for target practice they are not so great at least not compared to a good Sig. Sig makes some of the most accurate firearms being sold and the P220 often ranks as the #1 choice among all handguns when people have polls on websites like this one. A Glock will be lighter. A Sig will be more accurate. A Glock can hold more rounds in a mag but you can always buy a handful of mags and make that Sig just as effective or close to it. There are great differences in how the two operate also. You won't see any single action Glocks (at least AFAIK) while there are lots of single action Sigs. They are generally single action / double action guns actually. For target shooting that makes a huge difference. In short if you want a gun just for self defense either the Glock or the Sig will do fine. If you want a very accurate target pistol get the Sig. Glock doesn't make target quality handguns AFAIK. Of course things like ergonomics matter a lot. If that Sig is too big for your hand or the Glock is too small you will want something else. You need a gun that won't hurt your hand when you shoot it because you MUST practice with any SD weapon if you expect it to be effective at protecting you. Personally I've looked at Glocks with the intention of buying one for concealed carry but I've always ended up with something else because Glocks just aren't made to fit my hands. I do own a Sig P220. For a home defense gun they are excellent as long as you know that walls don't stop bullets unless they're concrete walls or block walls or basement walls (exterior basement walls). I have my Sig right next to me in my desk drawer. But I have pistols all over the place so... I have other brands besides Sig. Still the answer to your question is yes there are differences and they do matter a lot actually. You should do a lot more research IMO before you make your choice or you can do what us gun junkies do - buy both. They are both fine guns. They are just different. Last edited by CJ_56; 09-03-2012 at 09:02 AM..

09-03-2012, 09:35 AM	#32
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,059	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun CJ, You need to go back and re-read the OPs question. The thread says looking to buy a 45 handgun. While the two guns are mentioned, he also says ANY advice is welcome. So, while you just cant believe the crazy answers, we will continue to make suggestions. __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

09-09-2012, 08:53 PM	#33
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun Come on Double D. He was talking strictly about Glocks vs. Sigs. His call for advice seemed to totally be about that question to me. But I tend to take people for what they actually say instead of what they mean to say. Maybe he does want advice on any gun on the planet. It just doesn't seem like that's what he asked to me. He mentioned Glocks and Sigs several times and asked about advice concerning those two companies. It seems very clear to me. It certainly won't hurt him to hear about other guns but he did ask specifically about Glocks and Sigs. I can't say as I agree with the thing about 1911's being the perfect home defense gun either. And, like you, I don't think they are out of the realm of good CCW guns. I carried my Sig P220 for years as a CCW gun and it's as big as many 1911's I've seen and a lot bigger than some. But they do suffer from a lack of capacity (before swapping mags) which other guns don't do. That's not a terrible fault but it is a fault and keeps them from being a "perfect" HD gun. Also I certainly don't agree that while the 1911 is accurate at 50 ft. I don't agree that other guns aren't accurate at that distance. Maybe he meant 50 yards because a 1911 (a good one) will shoot accurate at that distance and so will a Sig P220. The original Sig 210 was a 2" group handgun at 50 yards. The new 210's are said to be capable of 1" groups at 50 yards. Of course those are 9mm guns for the most part but some of the original 210's were .45's. At any rate I have a Taurus .45 that will shoot very accurately at 50 feet and it has a much shorter barrel than a true 1911. I have shot empty .45 casings at 20 yards (60 feet) and hit every one I shot at with that pistol. It's a PT-145 Mil. Pro. SA/DA. It is a VERY accurate pistols in fact for only having a 3.25" barrel.

09-10-2012, 01:44 AM	#34
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun Dang! Double post.

09-10-2012, 06:23 AM	#35
GLS_1956 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Great State of Oklahoma Posts: 73	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun All I can say is while my exwife never went shooting with me. Decades ago I took out a few guns for another friend's wife to fire. She is a petite woman, and she was able to fire the 1911 far easier that the Browning Hi-Power. The 1911's single column magazine made it fit her hand much better.

09-10-2012, 06:52 AM	#37
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun As for Scuba's question.... Shoot a Glock, see if you like it. It's a fine weapon, although it's not for everyone. Shoot the Sig, it's great too. See if it's for you. Shoot a 1911 (you should own at least ONE eventually - took me almost 20 years). See which one is for you. That's all you can do. For me, I'd carry/use for home (and do) the Glock all day long. Biggest reason? NO EXTERNAL SAFETY. __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

09-10-2012, 11:30 AM	#39
rogertc1 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ioea Posts: 237	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun If you want a inexpensive 45 pistol look at a Cobra Patriot 45ACP. $300 NIB Reliable and even made in the USA http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...atriot_062207/ Last edited by rogertc1; 09-10-2012 at 11:32 AM..

09-10-2012, 01:47 PM	#40
Blackshirts Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 573	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun I would have to say if someone who seems to be new to handguns and his first purchase decision process is based off just 2 suggestions from 1 guy who likes Glock and 1 guy who likes Sig that anyone who would NOT offer other suggestions is doing the poster a huge disservice. If they are obviously unsure of their purchase and you know there are other comparable, or even better, options and you do not offer them the information so they can be more informed of what is available to them you are not helping to them at all. It seems to me had the first guy he talked to been a 1911 guy the question would have been "1911 or Sig?". __________________ Just my opinion. Don't go apes**t and jump down my throat about it.

09-11-2012, 01:33 AM	#41
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun I don't believe there are better choices than the Sigs and Glocks to be honest. There are other equal quality guns or close to it. But a Sig is a very high quality handgun and I chose one over a 1911 and don't regret it for a second. Glocks can also be very good weapons. There are many good weapons. But he asked about Sigs and Glocks. And it isn't like this is the only example of such things happening. It always happens even when there are no hairs to split to make wiggle room to chime in with your own favorite choice. I could go on and on about grammar and how a paragraph has a specific and limited thought involved especially when it is spelled out as such. Mainly I don't think adding a lot of confusion to the answer is doing the OP a favor. In fact I think he chose two very good examples of handguns that are both very popular for different reasons and he was asking about whether there was a difference. Just answering the question asked is not such a bad idea IMO. It isn't the end of the world or anything or even important. But I do think people should try to limit their answers to the questions asked. It helps to avoid the avalanche of information we see every time a newbie comes along and asks about guns. Too much information is as bad as not enough. And I think someone gave him pretty good advice on a couple of guns that would work very well for him. I don't think he needed the whole history of the gun as an answer. In fact I think it overwhelms people. That was and is my point. If I told you someone said I should buy either a Porsche or a Chevy Blazer would you feel compelled to tell me about the Model A? Because let's face it, the 1911 is essentially the Model A of handguns. That doesn't make it bad. In fact I think we all know they have great qualities. So did the Model A. I'm just saying we might want to limit our comments to the discussion at hand and all hair splitting aside I can dig out my grammar books and prove that his question was technically about only Sigs and Glocks. Paragraphs are limited to a particular subject just like sentences are. But gee whiz do we have to get into all that? I hope not. It was pretty obvious he wanted to know about Sigs and Glocks. Not Model A's. It really isn't worth all this much fuss at any rate. I certainly ain't the paragraph police. I was just suggesting we try to stick to the subject rather than turning every single thread into a 1911 love fest. There are other guns in the world and many of them are very nice. For example when was the last time you saw a 1911 with a 13 round capacity like the Glock 21? What about the more modern safeties on Glocks? Some 1911's aren't California approved BTW. Maybe that's why his friend simplified his search to Glocks and Sigs. Aren't we assuming a lot when we assume the OP needs information not asked for?

09-11-2012, 07:29 AM	#43
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,059	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun How about a CZ? Or an XDM? I cant stand a glock.... I would go with a 1911... __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

09-11-2012, 09:38 AM	#44
CJ_56 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: SE Ohio Posts: 391	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun Well I've got an XDm in .40 and I started to buy a CZ just recently but ended up buying a Ruger instead. I still want the CZ so likely as not it will be on the Christmas list or whatever (if I can wait that long ). I talked my friend into buying a CZ and he carries it everywhere he goes and can't stop talking about how great it is. And he's right. I have to remind him that I was the one that sold him on the idea in the first place every time I see him because he goes on and on about that thing and I know he has at least 20 pistols. I have been carrying the XDm mostly as a truck gun. I often carry a Taurus too. Now that's a great gun and it's a .45. There's a bunch of nice stuff around. Heck I could be carrying my .44 magnum S&W 629 but I figure shooting one person at a time is plenty. I mostly carry that one for close encounters of the bear kind. Last edited by CJ_56; 09-11-2012 at 09:45 AM..

09-11-2012, 08:34 PM	#46
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,711	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun It is not fair throwing in a ringer like a Sig P210 but there are other Sigs that are as accurate and probably more accurate than almost any Glock. The one of note is the P220 in 45ACP. Sigs, if you have not inspected one, are beautifully made, and are accurate as well. They are all metal (or at least the ones I would recommend are). They will out last any plastic gun. Maybe you don't care if the gun will last decades or even many decades. If that is the case go with any old plastic throw away gun...it matters not which one. But if you want a quality gun, made to last, made to shoot accurately then go with a Sig, new or used. Sig themselves offer used ones turned in from police forces all over the USA. Most often those guns are carried a lot and fired little so would probably be in great shape. Another all metal gun that you really should be considering is the CZ 97B in 45ACP. It is a large gun but excellent. There is also a clone of it from EAA (Witness) that in my case shoots right along with the Sig 97B but with the Witness there is more variability from gun to gun. Some of us won and other, not so much. The CZ 97B is every bit as nicely made and as accurate as the SIG P220, in my opinion. If you did not get that I do not like plastic guns, I'll say it now...I DO NOT LIKE PLASTIC GUNS! That's a choice of MINE. I have an early P220 (marked Browning, who imported them at the time), the CZ 97B, the Witness, a Colt 1911 (actually in 10mm but close enough), and a Rock Island 1911 that has all match internal parts I installed...All in 45ACP (except the Colt Delta Elite). I have NO plastic guns. All the above pistols are excellent and I would recommend any one of them. But I have a special place in my heart for my Sig P220. LDBennett Last edited by LDBennett; 09-11-2012 at 08:36 PM..

09-12-2012, 09:33 AM	#47
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun LD, aren't you a fellow fan of Kel-tec though? __________________ The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL... PREPARE TO SERVE.

09-12-2012, 05:32 PM	#48
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,711	Re: Looking to buy a 45 handgun NO!!!!! LDBennett