which caliber for all around use?

[hunter29180]

discussion about 3 calibers for all around hunting and other predator elemination.

the choices under discussion are 308, 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54r..

how would you rank them and why?

animals to be hunted..deer, antelope,moose, hogs,bears,caribu expected ranges from 200 yd to 1500 yd with occasional shots up to 2000 if the rifle can do this.

predators..the usual up to and including some 2 legged types...

feel free to bring forth others for consiteration for the uses and ranges above!!

must be commerically available and reloadable!!

[carver]

The 7.62 x 39 is on a par with the old 30/30 round, a 100 -150 yard shooter, so it's out. Of the two remaining calibers I would have to go with the .308 simply because there will be a larger supply of readily available ammo. It's maybe not the better choice balistically speaking, but it will get the job done. 1500, and 2000 yards is a longgggg way!

[al45lc]

.308, hands down.
Factory or especially handloaded, VERY diverse and adaptable. HUGE selection of weapons to choose from , Single, Lever, Bolt and Auto.
Moose or bear with 7.62 x 39?! Not me!
Sure, 'ol Karamojo Bell took elephants with a 7 x 57, but he was crazy! (and damn good).
I'd do it with a properly loaded .308 any day.
Long range, short range, armor piercing, solids and frangible, from light to heavy, the list for different 'pills for your ills' is long and covers it all, AND readily available.
As is the list of manufacturers for every conceivable componant and aftermarket Gizmo and aid for the .308 and the weapons.
Straight up and to the point, "all around" means diversity, adaptability and availability, and the .308 (also because it's 7.62 NATO) is King.

[aa1911]

Originally Posted by al45lc

.308, hands down.
Factory or especially handloaded, VERY diverse and adaptable. HUGE selection of weapons to choose from , Single, Lever, Bolt and Auto.
Moose or bear with 7.62 x 39?! Not me!
Sure, 'ol Karamojo Bell took elephants with a 7 x 57, but he was crazy! (and damn good).
I'd do it with a properly loaded .308 any day.
Long range, short range, armor piercing, solids and frangible, from light to heavy, the list for different 'pills for your ills' is long and covers it all, AND readily available.
As is the list of manufacturers for every conceivable componant and aftermarket Gizmo and aid for the .308 and the weapons.
Straight up and to the point, "all around" means diversity, adaptability and availability, and the .308 (also because it's 7.62 NATO) is King.

.308 is king IMO. the rusky round is great but so many more platforms available in .308 and almost as powerful

[soundguy]

I think i'd also have to say .308 as well.

762x39.. i'd not feel safe it would drop a moose at any long range unless you are a sniper.

the 762x54r is a great round.. hard to find in non milsurp.. so unless you relaod AND have a custom gun conversion.. I'd count it out.

If you say.. got a ruger mk1 in it, and used commercial new ammo or hand loaded ammo.. then that would throw it inthe running.. just based upon performance.

otherwise.. you can walk into a walmart and buy 308 ammo.. and 308 rifles are all over..

and ditto onthe other comment about 2000 yds.. that's a long way.

if I was routinely taking 1000-2000 yd shots.. I think I'd skip all 3 of those calibers.. especially if taking large game...

maybee 300 weatherby mag.. 375 H&H 338 lapua etc..

[gdmoody]

Originally Posted by al45lc

.308, hands down.
Factory or especially handloaded, VERY diverse and adaptable. HUGE selection of weapons to choose from , Single, Lever, Bolt and Auto.
Moose or bear with 7.62 x 39?! Not me!
Sure, 'ol Karamojo Bell took elephants with a 7 x 57, but he was crazy! (and damn good).
I'd do it with a properly loaded .308 any day.
Long range, short range, armor piercing, solids and frangible, from light to heavy, the list for different 'pills for your ills' is long and covers it all, AND readily available.
As is the list of manufacturers for every conceivable componant and aftermarket Gizmo and aid for the .308 and the weapons.
Straight up and to the point, "all around" means diversity, adaptability and availability, and the .308 (also because it's 7.62 NATO) is King.

I agree with this completely. .308 is easily reloadable and plenty of choices on bullet size that can/will handle anything between a mouse and a moose.

[time2shoot]

whats wrong with 25/06.

[al45lc]

Originally Posted by time2shoot

whats wrong with 25/06.

Nothing, but it simply can't compete with the .308 for "all around" nomination.
Serious limitations in the bullet variety catagory, among others.

[aa1911]

I took a grouse with my M1A last year so there's a funny example of how .308 can be used for everything big AND small! got a neck shot on him so I didn't ruin any meat either. Lots of folks using .308 for elk and other large game with no problems at reasonable ranges. It's what I'm using this season for all big game, bear, cougar, deer and elk.

AK round is just not in the same league as the other two.

[dad2thebone]

I had great luck with 7.62 x39 and the same goes for my 30-30 . It may be more of a brush gun but you asked.

[old semperfi]

308 hands down,ammo easy to find,reasonable cost and multiple weights in factory ammo.im sorry but trying to hunt anything at 1500 or 2000 yards is crazy.the only thing you may possibly do is wound an animal and that only by the grace of god. old semperfi

[JohnnyFlake]

NONE of the rounds you mention are worthy beyond 1000/1200 yards. The 308 would be the closest but a shot at 1500/2000 as you mention would simply be pure luck. A properly scoped 300 Wini Mag is probably the minimum caliber that may be effective at those ranges. I' opt for a properly scoped .338 Lapua Magnum or 8.6x70 which is designed for shots out to 2000 + yards. With a proper scope your talking around $3000

[aa1911]

If you're wanting to make shots at 2000 yards, better get yourself a .50 cal mod deuce or something automatic. Or better yet, hire a helicopter gunship to fly around your property! 2k is a looooong ways away.

I've shot M240 out as far as 2200m at moving truck targets, pretty ineffective even with a machine gun. But 1000yds/meters whatever, you could do pretty well with .308 with some training/skill.

maybe you could build yourself a home made predator drone

[cpttango30]

1. 25-06
2. 308
3. 7.62x39
4. 243
5. 6xc
6. 30-06
7. 7.62x54r

[JLA]

Originally Posted by hunter29180

discussion about 3 calibers for all around hunting and other predator elemination.

the choices under discussion are 308, 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 54r..

how would you rank them and why?

animals to be hunted..deer, antelope,moose, hogs,bears,caribu expected ranges from 200 yd to 1500 yd with occasional shots up to 2000 if the rifle can do this.

predators..the usual up to and including some 2 legged types...

feel free to bring forth others for consiteration for the uses and ranges above!!

must be commerically available and reloadable!!

The .308 and the 7.62X54R are only effective to about 800 meters. the X39 400 meters. The ranges you state alone would require very precise projectiles and stable platforms and the round would have to be on par with a .408 CheyTac or a .416 barrett.. The .338 lapua at the very least and thats gonna be pushin it on the bigger animals at that range.

Moose, some of the bigger bears and elk are stretching the .30 cal to the far side of optimism. They are capable, you just gotta be one hell of a crack shot to put that pill where it matters most, which is something thats likely NOT to happen in a full charge my a mature bull moose or a hungry pissed off kodiak.

Reduce the ranges to a realistic 500-600 yards maximum, and omit the moose and bears from the animals to kill list and the .308 win reigns king, with the 7.62X54R coming in 2nd and the 7.62X39 on the 100-200 yd list at 3rd.

Real world picks for me, based on experience. would be:

.223 rem for small game and predators out to 400 yds
.308 win for medium game out to 600 yds
.338 Lapua for medium to large game at extended ranges, though Id probably keep my ranges limited to 1000 or less mainly because of my comfort with my own skill level of shooting. i.e. closer is better..

1000 yds is a long ass way out. lots of time for variables to affect the bullet and truth be told ti just isnt practical to engage anything aside from a paper target or unsuspecting steel gong at that kinda range. Just being honest here. I know what I am capable of behind a rifle and shooting ranges past 500 yards give me the willys, not because its hard and i cant do it, because I can and have, but because theres all kinds of variables you cant calculate at longer ranges that makes the margin of error too large to consider a clean kill on anything. Now I know the military logs kills beyond 1000 yds regularly, but the guys behind the trigger are highly disciplined shooters with state of the art cutting edge equipment at thier fingertips.

Its easy to be an internet commando or a mall ninja riding the free wifi at starbucks and post your "skillset" online where theres nobody that knows different and nobody to prove otherwise. And I read alot of opinions and claims on the internet these days from folks that id wager only own 1 gun and they just bought it.

[CCHolderinMaine]

That's a pretty substantial list of targets you put out. I think if it had to be just one gun I might go with the old tried and true 30-06. A lot of ammo options out there make it pretty flexible.

[CJ_56]

The 30.06 does reach out a little farther with power but nothing you mentioned is going to kill a moose at 2000 yards. And IMO you should never try such a shot because even if you did hit the thing it would likely just be wounded and would wander away in great pain. It's unethical for a hunter to do that. I think you'll find that about 99% of hunters agree with that. There are those that just don't give a rat's rear but IMO those guys give us all a bad name and they should be shunned by the hunting community. In all the time I've been a hunter and all the time I've been surfing the internet gun boards I've never seen anyone mention trying to take that kind of game at that distance. I have seen very few talk about even shooting varmints at that range although there are some people who can do that. In fact the longest kill shot on record is 3120 yards on a p'dog by Kregg Slack. Slack claims to have shot one at 3650 yards but that isn't confirmed. Obviously there is a HUGE difference between a p'dog and a moose. So I'm not saying it's impossible to shoot an animal at that distance. I just don't think you can get enough power at that range with the calibers you mentioned to actually kill a moose or any of the other large animals you mention. And there are dang few people around that can shoot that far period. You may be one. I don't know. But if you want to shoot large animals at that range use a .50 BMG or maybe a 20mm cannon. Do you know how to fire artillery and do you have a good spotter?

[dad2thebone]

A huey at 100 ft? that works. lead em a ways if they run though.

[WHSmithIV]

Well, I go with 30-30 because that's the rifle I have. It's my saddle rifle. Damn sure won't try to shoot anything 1500-2000 yards away though. Why would I try to shoot a deer or an elk almost a mile away or more?

[hunter29180]

Well learned a bit from the postingd on this subject!

not sure but dont think any of the people involved in this discussion would try to take a game animal past 500 yds...predators well thats another question...hence the longer ranges. the farther out you can shoot one that can shoot back the safer you are!
( course as you can see we were looking at a SHTF situation and looking at defensive capabilites also) if that changes things then please repost your opinions!

so far we have a (2) 30-30, (1) 7.62 x 54r and (1) 30-06. maybe the 30-06 isnt liked because its for a lefty? anyways the 30-30 ranked #1 among the women and the men are split beteen the other 2. I saw a russian Vepr 308 (which I really liked!)
its out of stock but expected to get more within 6 mos.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/long-...iber-semi-auto

we felt we needed some thing that could reach out and touch something, but still remain practiful! we did indeed consiter some of the other calpers suggested. but most of those would put a hurting on the ladies who would also shoot them. the 308 seemed to be at the upper limit for recoil for the women to shoot comfortably. at least according to the 3 we have to "test" shoot the ones we have consitered.

of course we knew a 50 bmg would do the job but who wants to shoot something and then have to hike for a mile or more to get to it? what a waste! and the weight would kill you to carry for any length of time!

[carver]

If you think the .308 seemed to be at the upper limit for recoil for the women, then don't let them shoot the .06 in a bolt gun! Larger case, more powder, and possibly heavier bullets, and it will kick harder! I bought a .308 last year because I wanted to get back into the .06 class of guns, but I also wanted a bolt gun, .308 simply kicks less.

[soundguy]

for sure.... imho.. 308 and 3030 feel real similar to my shoulder..

[gun runner]

Originally Posted by aa1911

I took a grouse with my M1A last year so there's a funny example of how .308 can be used for everything big AND small! got a neck shot on him so I didn't ruin any meat either. Lots of folks using .308 for elk and other large game with no problems at reasonable ranges. It's what I'm using this season for all big game, bear, cougar, deer and elk.

AK round is just not in the same league as the other two.

Why shoot cougars?

[al45lc]

In fact I ignored the 1500-2000 yd mark for several reasons.
No need or justification at that range, even a WELL trained sniper is pushing it at that range with specialty equipment.
There are damn few places on this earth where such a shot can even BE made for that group of animals, antelope and caribou being the basic exceptions and if your familar with those animals normal territory, the wind is gonna make it near impossible, period.
I've hunted antelope in Wyoming, the wind is a PITA MOST of the time.
And even there the rolling terrain makes those ranges near unobtainable.
The longest range parameters are simply unrealistic, period.

[aa1911]

^because they make good balogna and they are munching all the deer up here. there's tons of big mountain kitties, they've opened up more season and less equipment regulations trying to get the numbers down a bit.

chances of seeing one are slim to none though, they are the ultimate hunter and mostly are active dusk/dawn anyway or through the night moreso than day.

I generally hunt for meat and could care less about much else but if I get a chance at a cougar, well, that's just purely the satisfaction of taking the ultimate predator machine I guess.