30-06 and 300 Min mag pet loads

[dhom]

I have been loading for these two calibers for a lot of years and have some pretty satisfying loads for 150,165, and 180 grain bullets. Now, there are a lot more new powders and projectiles. Are the newer products any better? Do I stand to gain any velocity with all the new higher priced products or can you see any visible results in performance on deer sized game? I would appreciate all opoinions and load info on this subject. My usual loads consist of IMR 4350 and H4831 and I usually ignite them with a mag primer.

[Old Grump]

What is a Min Mag?

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

What is a Min Mag?

Win Mag, GRUMPY!

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by dhom

I have been loading for these two calibers for a lot of years and have some pretty satisfying loads for 150,165, and 180 grain bullets. Now, there are a lot more new powders and projectiles. Are the newer products any better? Do I stand to gain any velocity with all the new higher priced products or can you see any visible results in performance on deer sized game? I would appreciate all opoinions and load info on this subject. My usual loads consist of IMR 4350 and H4831 and I usually ignite them with a mag primer.

Are they better, maybe, depends on what you consider better.
If you are "satisfied" with your loads and how the perform then you can certainly leave well enough alone.
If you are like me and enjoy reloading and experimenting with components both new and old, the go for it, get some new powders and some new bullets and experiment away.

[myfriendis410]

.300 win mag: 168 gr. Barnes TTSX on top of A WHOLE LOT OF RL22 with a Nosler case and a Federal 215m primer. Typically "mickey mouse" groups and 3,300 fps.

[m77user]

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

.300 win mag: 168 gr. Barnes TTSX on top of A WHOLE LOT OF RL22 with a Nosler case and a Federal 215m primer. Typically "mickey mouse" groups and 3,300 fps.

I use RL22 with Nosler 180 Partitons. Savage 110 26 in. barrel 300 yds. I am getting nearly moa. My eyes are not what they used to be. 300 Win. Mag I also use the Fed. 215 primer and don't seem to get as much residue in the primer pocket.

[langenc]

Forget the 300 Min mag and get a 300 WSM and use RL 17 powder.

Get the same or more velocity with LESS powder and kick.

[dhom]

Thanks for the advice myfriendis410.

[dhom]

Anyone ever experimented with a Barnes 130grain TTSX at high velocity? A few articles I have read suggest this could be a great performer on deer size game.

[myfriendis410]

Originally Posted by dhom

Anyone ever experimented with a Barnes 130grain TTSX at high velocity? A few articles I have read suggest this could be a great performer on deer size game.

I tried the 130 TTSX in my .300 a few years ago. The ballistics to 300 yards were impressive but it gives up a lot after that. I killed a NICE coastal blacktail 3 X 4 at a ranged 326 yards. The shot was rear quartering, I just aimed for hair and cut loose. The bullet hit the fifth rib back, transited the body cavity and blew out the off shoulder. Everything in between was pudding. My rifle would not group better than about 3/4" and I was concerned about barrel life so went back to the 168 gr. TTSX.

I have quite a bit of experience with both the .300 win mag and the .300 wsm. Shooting over a chronograph proved to me that the wsm is NOT a .300 win mag and you probably will never make it into one. That's okay; it's a good cartridge, but don't confuse it with the win mag. There IS a possibility of getting win mag velocity out of it with some bullets using the new Hodgdon Superformance powder but have not yet put any downrange. There are limitations in bullet weight to consider as well.

The PERFECT .30 caliber IMO is the .300 Weatherby mag. It's another step above the win mag but below the Ultra mag. About 150-200 fps better across the board and pretty impressive groups in the Vanguard I've shot. I will say that I'm glad it has a 'brake on it though.

[dhom]

myfriendis410,,,,,,,,,,,,what powder did you try with the 130? Did you ever try it in 30-06? One last question, That 3300 velocity you mentioned with 168 TTSX, was that chronographed because that seems pretty high for a 300 win mag?

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by dhom

myfriendis410,,,,,,,,,,,,what powder did you try with the 130? Did you ever try it in 30-06? One last question, That 3300 velocity you mentioned with 168 TTSX, was that chronographed because that seems pretty high for a 300 win mag?

Yes it's up there. If I had to guess I would say about 82gr of R-22 pushing the 300Win Mag cartridge past the SAAMI 62K MAP and into WSM territory of 65K MAP and beyond.

Good guess or no?

[myfriendis410]

Gosh; I'm kind of reluctant to put charge numbers up there, but will make an exception. In the case of the 168's the load is 77.0 gr. It's right at 100% load density with the Nosler custom brass and yes; it's chronographed at a velocity of 3,355 fps average. Pressures are below maximum based on all available evidence.

The 130 gr. load used 83.0 gr. of RL19. I don't have the exact velocity figures in front of me.

I will point out that my rifle is a Remington 700 LSS with a 'brake installed and has a very long freebore in it--reminiscent of the Weatherby MK V throat. It has had several hundred rounds through it using only Nosler brass. The loads are at or exceed book maximum by a small amount after considerable time at the loading and shooting bench.

I am forced to use the non-toxic stuff due to my being deep within the condor zone in California, but my experience with the Barnes has proven that it likes to be driven hard to deliver the best accuracy. Please don't use my data in your rifle without carefully working up to it.

The best I've ever been able to get out of the .300 wsm using the same bullet is just shy of 3,000 fps using Federal brass. I have not done much with Superformance powder in that cartridge, but the little I have done (with mediocre accuracy) put the velocity up to around 3,100 fps with that same bullet.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

Gosh; I'm kind of reluctant to put charge numbers up there, but will make an exception. In the case of the 168's the load is 77.0 gr. It's right at 100% load density with the Nosler custom brass and yes; it's chronographed at a velocity of 3,355 fps average. Pressures are below maximum based on all available evidence.

The 130 gr. load used 83.0 gr. of RL19. I don't have the exact velocity figures in front of me.

I will point out that my rifle is a Remington 700 LSS with a 'brake installed and has a very long freebore in it--reminiscent of the Weatherby MK V throat. It has had several hundred rounds through it using only Nosler brass. The loads are at or exceed book maximum by a small amount after considerable time at the loading and shooting bench.

I am forced to use the non-toxic stuff due to my being deep within the condor zone in California, but my experience with the Barnes has proven that it likes to be driven hard to deliver the best accuracy. Please don't use my data in your rifle without carefully working up to it.

The best I've ever been able to get out of the .300 wsm using the same bullet is just shy of 3,000 fps using Federal brass. I have not done much with Superformance powder in that cartridge, but the little I have done (with mediocre accuracy) put the velocity up to around 3,100 fps with that same bullet.

Wow, 3350fps with less than Max load. The max velocity for the 168gr is about 3200 with a Max of 79gr of R-22.

Two grains under with that much more speed? How far do you have that Chrony from the muzzle?

[myfriendis410]

8-10 feet. I do attribute much of that simply to the geometry of the barrel and the throat. I had considerable difficulty getting this gun to shoot, but it's consistently shooting under 1/2" now. Copper fouling hasn't been bad in this rifle either for whatever reason. It usually only takes 20 minutes or so to bring it back, unlike my Browning 7mm r.m. which takes all of TWO HOURS of CR10 bore cleaner to get back to a ready condition.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by myfriendis410

8-10 feet. I do attribute much of that simply to the geometry of the barrel and the throat. I had considerable difficulty getting this gun to shoot, but it's consistently shooting under 1/2" now. Copper fouling hasn't been bad in this rifle either for whatever reason. It usually only takes 20 minutes or so to bring it back, unlike my Browning 7mm r.m. which takes all of TWO HOURS of CR10 bore cleaner to get back to a ready condition.

Thanks.

If you would, next time you Chrony this load could you set the Chrony at 15 feet and report back.

My F-1 does not do well less than 12 feet

[myfriendis410]

I can do that, although I cross-checked it with another chronograph using a known load and got nearly identical values. Of course; these are $89 machines.........

[dhom]

I'm impressed with those figures also. It seems to me you do your homework so, I just have to think you have a exceptionally fast bore. I believe that is a 26in barrel? With the 168gr TTSX and my Rem 700 BDL And that charge of RL22 I can expect about 3050-3100. I am kinda anxious to see if the choro at 15ft makes a difference.

[myfriendis410]

Originally Posted by dhom

I'm impressed with those figures also. It seems to me you do your homework so, I just have to think you have a exceptionally fast bore. I believe that is a 26in barrel? With the 168gr TTSX and my Rem 700 BDL And that charge of RL22 I can expect about 3050-3100. I am kinda anxious to see if the choro at 15ft makes a difference.

That's the conclusion I made also. The long freebore certainly has something to do with it. The barrel is actually cut down to 24" with a 2" 'brake. The barrel is a factory stainless that my gunsmith called a "phosphate" barrel. Accuracy can be problematic with this type of barrel. It took me a long time to develop a good working load for it.

One thing I will find out also is what temperature and altitude will do to affect this load. I had a situation years ago using a 200 gr. load that failed to group (4" at 100 yd.) at 7,000 ft. (I'm at sea level). Fortunately my 168 gr. TTSX load did group well and was subsequently able to harvest a cow elk with one shot. When I got back home I shot that load again and it was back to 1/2". That's the only time I've ever experienced that phenomenon.