Is Hodgen's 4895 and IMR 4895 the same? - The Firearms Forum

dsv424 · 09-11-2009, 12:52 PM

Just as the title states. I purchased some H4895 and was wondering if I can use this powder when IMR 4895 is called for? Thx for any info on this.

Hammerslagger · 09-11-2009, 01:47 PM

Check a recently published respected reloading manual like Speer or Lee.

Military 4895 was produced by Dupont expressly for the M-1 Garand Rifle that requires a 5000 psi gas port pressure. P. B. Sharpe apparently does not mention it until the 1949 edition of his famous reloading manual, and then mentions 4895 loading data by powder lot #.

It was not offered for sale to the public until Mr. Hodgen bought tons of it as military surplus after WW II, and started selling it with loading data. { I suspect that he may have engaged in lot blending.} In any case this is how Hodgen got in the propellant business.

This powder became so popular that Dupont started selling it in a uniform grade (Canister Lot Grade).

Initially Hodgen and Dupont powders with the same powder designation # were not loading data interchangeable! Most reloading manuals of ten to thirty years ago, stated so.

Alpo · 09-11-2009, 02:45 PM

I don't believe so. Hodgdons owns both Hodgdons and IMR powder lines, so they make both H4895 and IMR4895. If you go to there website, and look up some loads, they use differing amounts of powder.

For example, these are the loads for 30/06 with a 150 grain Nosler bullet:

H4895, 46.0 gr. @ 2806 fps for 44,400 CUP to 51.0 gr. @ 2976 fps for 48,500 CUP

IMR 4895, 49.0 gr. @ 2856fps, for 49,400 PSI to 53.0 gr. @ 3009fps for 56,700 PSI

LDBennett · 09-12-2009, 09:10 AM

It is not one of the powders that they now claim are the exact same powders in different cans. Those are W231=HP38; W296=H110; W760=H414 and maybe one or two more that I can't remember but I am pretty sure that IMR and H4895 are not the same. Do not assume any IMR powder with the same number as a Hodgdon powder are the same! Refer to the Hodgdon web page or their reloading manual to get specific loads for each one.

Hodgdon makes no powder themselves. They buy from powder companies around the world. They used to buy the Winchester powders above from whomever supplied Winchester (it was Winchester originally but I think they sold off the powder company ??). They now handle distribution for Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders so they revealed that the above powders were exactly the same, just in different bottles. Their reloading data reflects this now whereas it didn't previously even though the powders were supposedly the same.

Hodgdon now prints an annual reloading recipe update book and the correct loads for Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders should be revealed there. If the data there (or on their web page) is not equivalent between IMR and H4895 then they most definitely are not the same powder.

LDBennett

JLA · 09-12-2009, 04:18 PM

They are indeed different. H4895 is slightly faster burning than IMR 4895. They have similar applications but should not be substituted for one another...

09-11-2009, 12:52 PM	#1
dsv424 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Garland, Tx. Posts: 279	Is Hodgen's 4895 and IMR 4895 the same? Just as the title states. I purchased some H4895 and was wondering if I can use this powder when IMR 4895 is called for? Thx for any info on this. -->

09-11-2009, 01:47 PM	#2
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Is Hodgen's 4895 and IMR 4895 the same? Check a recently published respected reloading manual like Speer or Lee. Military 4895 was produced by Dupont expressly for the M-1 Garand Rifle that requires a 5000 psi gas port pressure. P. B. Sharpe apparently does not mention it until the 1949 edition of his famous reloading manual, and then mentions 4895 loading data by powder lot #. It was not offered for sale to the public until Mr. Hodgen bought tons of it as military surplus after WW II, and started selling it with loading data. { I suspect that he may have engaged in lot blending.} In any case this is how Hodgen got in the propellant business. This powder became so popular that Dupont started selling it in a uniform grade (Canister Lot Grade). Initially Hodgen and Dupont powders with the same powder designation # were not loading data interchangeable! Most reloading manuals of ten to thirty years ago, stated so. Last edited by Hammerslagger; 09-11-2009 at 01:48 PM.. Reason: typo: omitted word "not"

09-11-2009, 02:45 PM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,651	Re: Is Hodgen's 4895 and IMR 4895 the same? I don't believe so. Hodgdons owns both Hodgdons and IMR powder lines, so they make both H4895 and IMR4895. If you go to there website, and look up some loads, they use differing amounts of powder. For example, these are the loads for 30/06 with a 150 grain Nosler bullet: H4895, 46.0 gr. @ 2806 fps for 44,400 CUP to 51.0 gr. @ 2976 fps for 48,500 CUP IMR 4895, 49.0 gr. @ 2856fps, for 49,400 PSI to 53.0 gr. @ 3009fps for 56,700 PSI __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

09-12-2009, 09:10 AM	#4
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,711	Re: Is Hodgen's 4895 and IMR 4895 the same? It is not one of the powders that they now claim are the exact same powders in different cans. Those are W231=HP38; W296=H110; W760=H414 and maybe one or two more that I can't remember but I am pretty sure that IMR and H4895 are not the same. Do not assume any IMR powder with the same number as a Hodgdon powder are the same! Refer to the Hodgdon web page or their reloading manual to get specific loads for each one. Hodgdon makes no powder themselves. They buy from powder companies around the world. They used to buy the Winchester powders above from whomever supplied Winchester (it was Winchester originally but I think they sold off the powder company ??). They now handle distribution for Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders so they revealed that the above powders were exactly the same, just in different bottles. Their reloading data reflects this now whereas it didn't previously even though the powders were supposedly the same. Hodgdon now prints an annual reloading recipe update book and the correct loads for Hodgdon, Winchester, and IMR powders should be revealed there. If the data there (or on their web page) is not equivalent between IMR and H4895 then they most definitely are not the same powder. LDBennett

09-12-2009, 04:18 PM	#5
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,309	Re: Is Hodgen's 4895 and IMR 4895 the same? They are indeed different. H4895 is slightly faster burning than IMR 4895. They have similar applications but should not be substituted for one another... __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!