Heavy 45LC Loads

[LDJ]

In all my reloading books there are light or (cowboy) 45LC loads, and then there are loads that say for Ruger and TC only. My question is, are these heavy loads for any Ruger or certian models? I know some of my 45's would not handle a heavy load, but what about a Tarus Judge? I do not own a 45 Ruger but I am looking.

[Alpo]

First, there are three kinds of loads for 45 Colt. Don't confuse the "cowboy loads", which are squibs, with real, normal 45 Colt loads, which throw a 250 grain bullet about 800 fps.

Then there are the "Ruger only", or, as I've seen them listed in one book, "Ruger/Contender only" loads.

The Ruger Blackhawk and Vaquero, in 45 Colt, are built on a 44 magnum frame. They will handle loads that are waaaaaay out of the normal 45 Colt range.

There is now the Ruger "New Blackhawk" and "New Vaquero". They are NOT built on the 44 magnum frame, and if you use "Ruger only" loads in that gun, you stand a real good chance of breaking it.

The standard 45 Colt load will put down any person or game animal on the North American continent. There is no need to use "Ruger only" loads. But, people will continue to use them because, hey, everyone knows that more power is better.

If you feel the need to load "Ruger only" loads, buy yourself a Ruger Blackhawk, or a Vaquero or a Super Redhawk, or a Thompson Center Contender/Encore.

Or, since the intent of these loads is to turn a 45 Colt into a 44 Magnum, buy a 44 Magnum.

Shooting them in any regular gun chambered for 45 Colt - and by that I mean a Smith 25 or a Colt SAA or copy, or a Taurus Judge - is like asking to hold onto a hand grenade.

[jim brady]

VERY sound advice from Alpo. I wouldn't use those hotter loads listed for the Ruger in anything except a Ruger. As Alpo already stated, the Ruger models listed are built for higher pressure ammunition.

Besides that, with the short barrel on that Judge, and it's sighting system, I don't think you would gain a thing by using hot ammo, and would only risk un-due wear and tear on it. If it were my choice, I'd stick with standard velocities.

[al45lc]

What Alpo said. My heavy huntin' load isn't for the weak, man or gun. Follow the manual on this one.

[LDJ]

Thanks for all the good input. I will stick to the normal loads. I just thought I would ask and learn. And I did. Oh, and Jim I shoot a 6-1/2 inch Judge, but thats not important.

[DoesItMatter]

Originally Posted by LDJ

Thanks for all the good input. I will stick to the normal loads. I just thought I would ask and learn. And I did. Oh, and Jim I shoot a 6-1/2 inch Judge, but thats not important.

I saw the Judge on sale recently, but didn't go for it due to reviews.

How does the 6-1/2 inch shoot? I suspect the barrel length should help with managing it.

Read a lot on the lighter framed ones and the short barrel versions that kick was pretty stout.

And - since this is a 45 LC discussion, is it worth it to get a 45 LC gun?

I've currently got

S&W 29-10 44mag, S&W 19-6 357mag,
Taurus M44 - 44mag, Taurus 669 - 357mag,
Ruger Bisley 44 Mag, Ruger Security Six 357 Mag, Ruger SBH 44 Mag.

I do have some semi-auto's but I love the revolvers.

Any point in exploring the 45 LC? Not a hunter, just a plinker/shooter.
And yes, I reload my own 44/357

[LDJ]

I have had a Derringer that shoots 2-1/2" 410 and 45LC that I carried in my fishing box when I was fishing in some backwater in Arkansas. It is very effictive with protection from cottonmouths. I purchased my Judge with the 3" 410 and 45LC because it sounded
like it would be even better and more fun than the Derringe. It is. The 410 shells will really kick and are fun at the range. I can also hit the 8-1/2 x 11 target at 25 yards and I am getting better with practice. The drawback is when I first started loading for it, I used cast bullets and I had to clean the lead out when I got home. I have heard others have had the same problem. I solved this small problem with Hornady and Berry's bullets. I had several hundred cast bullets loaded so to solve this problem I purchased a Uberti Cattleman to shoot them up. Problem solved. I like my Uberti also.

[twobit]

In the Lee reloading book there are regular 45 colt loads and then there are the hot loads for those special Ruger guns. I have a Uberti 1873 clone so I shoot the cowboy loads for plinking and load the regular loads for hunting / defense. My plinking recipe uses Trailboss powder and my hunting recipe uses Unique.

[al45lc]

Originally Posted by DoesItMatter

I saw the Judge on sale recently, but didn't go for it due to reviews.

How does the 6-1/2 inch shoot? I suspect the barrel length should help with managing it.

Read a lot on the lighter framed ones and the short barrel versions that kick was pretty stout.

And - since this is a 45 LC discussion, is it worth it to get a 45 LC gun?

I've currently got

S&W 29-10 44mag, S&W 19-6 357mag,
Taurus M44 - 44mag, Taurus 669 - 357mag,
Ruger Bisley 44 Mag, Ruger Security Six 357 Mag, Ruger SBH 44 Mag.

I do have some semi-auto's but I love the revolvers.

Any point in exploring the 45 LC? Not a hunter, just a plinker/shooter.
And yes, I reload my own 44/357

Let me preface this by saying I'm a VERY utilitarian person, if something is close to another thing I already have, I'm not inclined to go with it.
The .45 L.C. in a Ruger Blackhawk or Contender can match the .44 mag, but just.( This is with handloads) I don't own any .44 mags because I went with the .45 LC long ago, and they're just too close in performance (with my handloads) for me to justify it in my mind.
So, from my P.O.V., the answer is no. Your .44 mag will do everything the .45 LC will do, and more if factory ammo comes in play.

[dustydog]

Shot the .45 LC as a competition round up until about 1995.Factory and handloading manuals don't really do this cartridge justice.The most accurate and stout load I cared to shoot in smokeless was a old Keith .452-255 grain bullet cast with 7% tin in front of 10.2 grains of Unique.Low s.d.,just at 1000 fps out of a 4 5/8 Ruger,shot flat as a streached string.Not much expansion,but when the bullet starts out bigger than most bullets stop at..........

[zant]

I load 300gr LFN@1200fps for my 7.5" Blackhawk...only problems,I've ever had was the ejector rod housing getting loose..I've found the recoil impulse on a Colt .45 to be much more pleasant than a .44 mag-given equal loads.

[Bowsage]

Alpo, could you direct me to where I can find the info concerning what you can shoot in the new Ruger Blackhawks. I was under the impression Ruger loads were fine. I have a 5 1/2 Convertable.

[Alpo]

If you have the "New Blackhawk", with the black plastic grips, and the lock underneath the grip, your gun is built on the 45 Colt frame. It is the same size as a Colt SAA, and will take the same pressures.

If you just have a "New Model Blackhawk", with the rosewood grips, and (more importantly) DON'T have the lock underneath the grip, it is built on the 44 Magnum frame, and will take "Ruger Loads".

Pull your grips and look at your frame. That's the only way to tell, for sure, without having one of each to compare.

There is no magic to Ruger. Rugers will take more punishment because there is more steel in them. The "New Blackhawk", 7 1/2" barrel, Model BN-45L, weighs 42 ounces. The Bisley, on the other hand, 7 1/2" barrel, Model RB-45W, weighs 48 ounces. It is made on the older 44 magnum frame.

[Bowsage]

Thanks for the response. I have the 5 1/2" Model BN 355XL.And yes on the lock.

It seems there is a lot of confusion atleast on my part. I've read on the "trusty" internet that Ruger loads are OK in this gun. I would like to see what Ruger has claimed.( from the horses mouth) Can that be found on the web? Thanks Alpo

[Alpo]

I seriously doubt that any gun maker will tell you it is all right to shoot reloads of any kind in their guns, let alone reloads that exceed factory spec.

Possibly Speer or Hodgdon or Lyman, or some of the other reloading companies, that list "Ruger-only loads" in their manuals, will tell you whether the new Ruger is safe with them.

[Regular Joe]

The only other gun that the "Ruger loads" are safe in would be a .454 Casull, which is based on the .45 LC case. I wouldn't shoot wax bullets powered by the primer only through a Taurus, but I will NEVER own a Taurus to try that with.

[LDJ]

Hey Joe!
My Ruger Super Redhawk .454 is on order and I should have it, in about a week.

[Mrdahut]

HI folks i have from time to time looked here online for answers. This time i have joined since i have yet to see an answer to my .45lc question. I have a fair amount of reloading EXP with my rifles. I bought the Taurus Circuit Judge. Simply figured easy to do pick up my die's and load. Well now here is where i was wrong.

Projectile wise i am seeing both .45lc and .45 but not often. Is there a difference in projectiles diameter i need to be aware of. head space is not an issue in a cylinder designed for a .410 but over pressure in this rifle is.

Before i go out and spend some cash how do i NOT make a grenade out of my rifle.

ty gentlemen.

[Alpo]

Before WW2, 45 Colt used a 454 bullet and 45 Auto used a 452. After the war, somebody had a bright idea and thought, "Why are we making two difference sizes of barrels?", and when they made 45 Colt, they used 452, same as for 45 Auto.

Your new-made Taurus gun take a 452 bullet.

Is that what you are asking, because you post is a little confusing to me. "Projectile wise i am seeing both .45lc and .45 but not often."

[Mrdahut]

Sorry i was not clearer some manufacturers list .45colt and .45 as separate projectiles. others do not so i was not sure if it was something specific.

Thank you very much for your help though. That makes my life a lot easier and cheaper.

[Alpo]

Ahh, I think I see.

Most 45 Colt loads use a 250 or 255 grain bullet, while most 45 ACP loads use a 200 or 230 grain. That might be why they list them as separate.

And then there are the older 45 Colt guns, that are still in use and use the 454 bullet, so they are pointing that out, so if you have the older gun and need the larger bullet, you would know to get the 45 COLT bullet, and not just the 45 bullet.

[snuffy]

Originally Posted by LDJ

In all my reloading books there are light or (cowboy) 45LC loads, and then there are loads that say for Ruger and TC only. My question is, are these heavy loads for any Ruger or certian models? I know some of my 45's would not handle a heavy load, but what about a Tarus Judge? I do not own a 45 Ruger but I am looking.

LDJ, I too had the same problem finding heaviER 45 colt loads. I just bought a Rossi M-92 lever gun in 45 colt. I wanted some thump to the loads, not just a pop and a puff of smoke the 45 SA loads would have given.

I just recently joined the loadData.com forum. http://www.loaddata.com/home/index.cfm For those that don't know, they're affiliated with Rifle-Handloader magazine and the Wolf publishing company. There's a fee, but once you see all the loads that are on that sight, you'll say what I said, why didn't I join this years ago??¿

There's many thousands of loads on there, with more being added every day. Much of it is simply copied from other manuals, but quite a bit from writers that have written articles in Handloader for specific calibers. There was no problem finding many loads to try, both jacketed and for my home cast lead boolits.

[LDJ]

Thanks Snuffy
LDJ