NOW HEAR THIS!!!!!!! - The Firearms Forum

rooter · 02-17-2004, 04:27 AM

Subject: John Kerry...You decide

Sent to me by an old shipmate....

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I
know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the
doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to
CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift
boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze
Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody
with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves,
Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so
fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job.
But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only
along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough
stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no
time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for
medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat
on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor
wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used
the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the
end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star
make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and
missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner
knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off,
shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything
wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your
stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic
integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so
between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber
round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was
empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was
no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few
seconds on earth, and you wanted some daring do in your after-action
report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that,
too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing
procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area.
EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your
boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it couldn't return fire. It
was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved
and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat
during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for
carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running
across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough
to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where
lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early,
requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can
run for Congress, finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachusetts in
1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt
with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets
Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's
speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a
few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is
irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big
mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake
twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well
so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted
to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in
Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that
somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's
Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy.

Keep smiling,

Mike

Marlin · 02-17-2004, 06:49 AM

Just being from Kennedy Country makes him suspect but I get sicker and sicker each day as the truth leaks out behind the facade.

Even a real wolf in sheep's clothing would be far better.

Marlin · 02-17-2004, 07:36 AM

Here's an interesting commentary from today's WorldNetDaily on this subject, Chief. I thought it worth a read.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Benedict Arnold & John Kerry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 17, 2004
By C.J. Cheetham

He was a patriot. He led forces in the critical capture of an enemy position early in the war effort.

Five months later, this American commander led an expedition of 1,150 riflemen against an enemy's capital city. The American commander drove his men hard through the wilderness, overcoming leaky boats, spoiled provisions, treacherous rivers and near starvation to arrive at the capital in November, his force reduced to 650 men.

He fought on. Joining with another unit he pressed the attack to another key enemy city where his troops took heavy losses and he himself was wounded. As he charged at the enemy, his leg was taken out from under him – an enemy round running right through his thigh.

And yet, he fought on! For five more years he fought valiantly and was wounded in action a second time (again shot in the leg). No general was more imaginative than he, no field officer more daring, no soldier more courageous.

Yet Benedict Arnold has gone down in history not as a hero but as a villain, a military traitor who, as commander of the American fort at West Point, N.Y., in 1780, schemed to hand it over to the British.

He deserved to be called a traitor. And he deserves to be synonymous with treason.

When America had a clear moral vision, we were able to see that people like Benedict Arnold were traitors. Yet today, a man who was far less valiant and far more treasonous is about to be nominated by the Democrats for the presidency.

John Kerry couldn't hold a candle to Benedict Arnold in terms of service. Arnold served longer, with greater distinction, and in more dangerous environs.

Kerry has outdone Arnold in only one respect – Kerry's treason was more insidious, more immoral and more harmful to America than Arnold could muster.

Sadly, America has lost her ability to understand issues of treason. So, the name Arnold remains interchangeable with treason and Kerry continues to be called a "hero." On many of America's elementary-school playgrounds, boys will still playfully call each other "Benedict Arnold" in order to convey a feeling of betrayal. These children will see no moral dichotomy in understanding clearly that Arnold was a traitor, while a man of lesser character vies for the presidency. This is not the fault of our children, but the fault of American adults who have grown weary of right and wrong.

So, Kerry who sold out to the communists is a hero. Kerry who accused American soldiers of horrific war crimes without a shred of evidence is a hero. Kerry who threw his medals at the White House in the 1970s is a hero. Kerry who cavorted with Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and the radical left at a time we still had brave soldiers on the field of battle is a hero. Kerry who voted against every major weapons system now defending us in the war on terror is a hero. Kerry who wanted to abolish the CIA is now a hero.

After all, the argument goes: "That was 30 years ago!" And yet, Benedict Arnold (rightfully) is still considered a traitor 224 years later.

We have indeed lost much of our moral compass in two short centuries.

© 2004 WorldNetDaily

rooter · 02-17-2004, 02:03 PM

Face to face, I would call him a bastard, however he had very well-to-do parents, probably proud of him---I would select another name beginning with the letter 'P' but that is the part of a real man---God must pity people like this, so I suppose I should let the Boss deal with him in his own time---I can but hope that judgement will be fitting and severe. Chief

ACC · 02-18-2004, 08:35 PM

Guess what? they weren't even his medals that he threw on the lawn. A friend of his knew he was going to Washington, and asked him to ditch his medals for him in protest!!!!! a writer friend of mine who writes for the Boston Herald,told me he was in Kerry's Office to do an article, and there was kerry's medals hung on the wall,when he asked him about it that's the story he got.
The thing that gets me is that Kerry never made that public,and lead us to beleive that they were his. And I agree,to many medals for such a short stint.WHAT A GUY!

02-17-2004, 04:27 AM	#1
rooter VMBB Senior Chief Of Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Marty Robbins old hometown, Glendale Arizona--a suburb of Phoenix. Contributor Posts: 9,341	NOW HEAR THIS!!!!!!! Subject: John Kerry...You decide Sent to me by an old shipmate.... I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command. Here are my problems and suspicions: (1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs. (2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy. (3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong. (a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's. (b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some daring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too. (c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it couldn't return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight. Something is fishy. Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war. I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy. Keep smiling, Mike __________________ -->

02-17-2004, 06:49 AM	#2
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Just being from Kennedy Country makes him suspect but I get sicker and sicker each day as the truth leaks out behind the facade. Even a real wolf in sheep's clothing would be far better. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

02-17-2004, 07:36 AM	#3
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Here's an interesting commentary from today's WorldNetDaily on this subject, Chief. I thought it worth a read. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Benedict Arnold & John Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- February 17, 2004 By C.J. Cheetham He was a patriot. He led forces in the critical capture of an enemy position early in the war effort. Five months later, this American commander led an expedition of 1,150 riflemen against an enemy's capital city. The American commander drove his men hard through the wilderness, overcoming leaky boats, spoiled provisions, treacherous rivers and near starvation to arrive at the capital in November, his force reduced to 650 men. He fought on. Joining with another unit he pressed the attack to another key enemy city where his troops took heavy losses and he himself was wounded. As he charged at the enemy, his leg was taken out from under him – an enemy round running right through his thigh. And yet, he fought on! For five more years he fought valiantly and was wounded in action a second time (again shot in the leg). No general was more imaginative than he, no field officer more daring, no soldier more courageous. Yet Benedict Arnold has gone down in history not as a hero but as a villain, a military traitor who, as commander of the American fort at West Point, N.Y., in 1780, schemed to hand it over to the British. He deserved to be called a traitor. And he deserves to be synonymous with treason. When America had a clear moral vision, we were able to see that people like Benedict Arnold were traitors. Yet today, a man who was far less valiant and far more treasonous is about to be nominated by the Democrats for the presidency. John Kerry couldn't hold a candle to Benedict Arnold in terms of service. Arnold served longer, with greater distinction, and in more dangerous environs. Kerry has outdone Arnold in only one respect – Kerry's treason was more insidious, more immoral and more harmful to America than Arnold could muster. Sadly, America has lost her ability to understand issues of treason. So, the name Arnold remains interchangeable with treason and Kerry continues to be called a "hero." On many of America's elementary-school playgrounds, boys will still playfully call each other "Benedict Arnold" in order to convey a feeling of betrayal. These children will see no moral dichotomy in understanding clearly that Arnold was a traitor, while a man of lesser character vies for the presidency. This is not the fault of our children, but the fault of American adults who have grown weary of right and wrong. So, Kerry who sold out to the communists is a hero. Kerry who accused American soldiers of horrific war crimes without a shred of evidence is a hero. Kerry who threw his medals at the White House in the 1970s is a hero. Kerry who cavorted with Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden and the radical left at a time we still had brave soldiers on the field of battle is a hero. Kerry who voted against every major weapons system now defending us in the war on terror is a hero. Kerry who wanted to abolish the CIA is now a hero. After all, the argument goes: "That was 30 years ago!" And yet, Benedict Arnold (rightfully) is still considered a traitor 224 years later. We have indeed lost much of our moral compass in two short centuries. © 2004 WorldNetDaily __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

02-17-2004, 02:03 PM	#4
rooter VMBB Senior Chief Of Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Marty Robbins old hometown, Glendale Arizona--a suburb of Phoenix. Contributor Posts: 9,341	Face to face, I would call him a bastard, however he had very well-to-do parents, probably proud of him---I would select another name beginning with the letter 'P' but that is the part of a real man---God must pity people like this, so I suppose I should let the Boss deal with him in his own time---I can but hope that judgement will be fitting and severe. Chief __________________

02-18-2004, 08:35 PM	#5
ACC V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Nashua NH Posts: 152	Guess what? they weren't even his medals that he threw on the lawn. A friend of his knew he was going to Washington, and asked him to ditch his medals for him in protest!!!!! a writer friend of mine who writes for the Boston Herald,told me he was in Kerry's Office to do an article, and there was kerry's medals hung on the wall,when he asked him about it that's the story he got. The thing that gets me is that Kerry never made that public,and lead us to beleive that they were his. And I agree,to many medals for such a short stint.WHAT A GUY!