The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... - The Firearms Forum

Salvage33 · 01-08-2005, 02:03 PM

This has bothered me for quite some time, and think I will toss out my thoughts on the subject and let you respond....

The senate confirmation hearings are underway for Mr. Alberto Gonzalez for the presidential appointment as our next Attorney General of the United States. Since his nomination has been announced, the dems have been ramping up a campaign to cast doubt on his ability to enforce the laws of the country.

They are basing their opposition to Mr. Gonzalez on the fact that he asked several attorneys and professors of law from around the country on their opinions regarding legal interrogation techniques to be used on the detainees now located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. However, the diatribe has not centered on those prisoners but rather the actions of U.S. military personnel at Abu Ghraib Prison, saying, in effect, that he supports torture, of any and all kinds. If one wants a classic example of prisoner abuse, I remind you of the picture taken during the Vietnam War of the South Vietnamese colonel who shot a captured Viet Cong in the middle of the street. Now that was a real case of prisoner abuse!

In essence, the dems on the committee are supporting terrorists (this is my take on it) and are, by their questions and statements, not only telling any terrorist or "insurgent" captured what they have to do in order to not tell us anything! By their actions and statements, in my opinion, they are offering aid and comfort to the enemy, and are guilty of treasonous acts against this country, placing our troops in further harm's way, and violating their oath of office, "to protect our Constitution from all ememies, foreign and domestic...." To my way of thinking, they are the enemy within.

In Mr. Gonzalez's defense, the opinions he sought were rendered by noted legal minds, and his compilations of their opinions were summarized by him and submitted to the President for review, and with, I'm certain, recommendations.

What follows is a graphic representation of who the democrat senators on the committee seek to assist in their bid to deny Mr. Gonzalez' appointment and ratification. It is obvious that these senators have never served in the armed forces of this nation, know nothing about combat, and what it takes to keep troops alive in combat. By their actions they are also denying our forces of needed time sensitive intelligence information. Again, I reiterate that these elected officials are more concerned about the assumed indignities that a detainee might suffer than the lives of our troops. As those of you who have served, and led, then you know that a commander's primary responsibility is the safety and well being of his men. And gathering intelligence is just one of the many venues to carry out that responsibility. But this group of "gentlemen and gentle ladies" is doing everything that they can do to deny our commanders in the field the ability to do their job properly, all the while bemoaning the deaths of our troops! And that really pisses me off!!!!

You might have noticed that I have not used the term 'prisoner of war.' The people detained at Guantanamo are not prisoners of war. They were not wearing the uniform of a sovreign nation while under arms, and they were trying to kill U.S. forces. The terrorists/insurgents in Iraq were/are not wearing uniforms of a sovreign nation and are killing U.S. forces. Neither of these two groups captives are not subject to the Geneva Convention, and privelages and rights accorded thereunder.

It is argued by dems/liberals that if we don't mind our manners with these captives, that our troops will suffer from torture. Do they not read the newspaper or watch television? Does the name Nicholas Berg mean nothing to them? I have to assume that they don't, or they don't think being butchered and beheaded is torture or cruel and inhumane treatment.

I wonder what they would do if their child was kidnapped, buried alive, and the perpetrator caught and he wouldn't divulge the location of that child? Do you think that in THAT case they might have a different point of view?

I do!

I will be most interested in hearing your responses. Both pro and con. Thanks for letting me vent!

John

geezler · 01-08-2005, 02:19 PM

By nature and raising I am not an inhumane person BUT if torture is the only way to get the answers that will save American soldiers lives then so be it and the heck with world opinion!!

As far as Mr. alberto goes, there may be some latent racism popping it's head up under guise.

Salvage33 · 01-09-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geezler

By nature and raising I am not an inhumane person BUT if torture is the only way to get the answers that will save American soldiers lives then so be it and the heck with world opinion!!

As far as Mr. alberto goes, there may be some latent racism popping it's head up under guise.

MAY (?) be some latent racism? Whatever in the world would make you think that? Oh...perhaps all the remarks by the media and the DNC about Ms. Condoleeza Rice not being smart enough to be Sec. of State? Or other remarks by the same groups questioning anyone who is supposed to support them by fiat of their birth but decided to jump the reservation/plantation and think for themselves?

As for gaining info at any price...screw world opinion. If the lives of my men are at stake, the prisoner will give up what he knows...and maybe even confess to assasinating Lincoln!

John

rosierita · 01-09-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

By nature and raising I am not an inhumane person BUT if torture is the only way to get the answers that will save American soldiers lives then so be it and the heck with world opinion!!

yeah, that!

these subhuman terrorists would like nothing better than to kill us by any means possible. WHY should i feel sorry for them??

i dont! the 1s i feel sorry for are our soldiers who have to feel like they cannot do their jobs or have to worry for their own safety by not protecting themselves 1st & foremost.

i am a compassionate human being but, these terrorists have shown us no compassion, so ~ i think that is reason enough to give them a dose of their own medicine & even at that, at least we're far more humane about putting them out of their misery.

rosierita · 01-09-2005, 02:32 PM

sights like the above pics boil my blood when it comes to liberals! i think we should work to expose their anti american stance at every possible turn.

where is their outrage??

Salvage33 · 01-09-2005, 04:25 PM

Rosie...<high 5>... well...if you listen to the libs/pantywearing sniveling rhetoric, we should probably apologize for being in an area where our people can be kidnapped and beheaded!

Personally, I think all of those that are of that mind set should go to Iraq IMMEDIATELY and tell those nasty little terrorist types that they are sorry, just so we can watch them butchered and beheaded as their reward.

Don't mean to sound so blood thirsty....but the real truth is...in war, there are no rules! But they think there are, and we are the only ones who should have to abide by them. arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

John

satellite66 · 01-09-2005, 04:34 PM

I will admit I have not followed this torture stuff all that closely. From what I have seen it does not seem to be torture according to my definition. It seems like over zealous frat hazing more than torture. The bottom line is that these people do not subscribe to nor are they signatories to any of the Geneva Conventions or any other treaties regarding prisoner treatment. I find all the hand wringing and moaning by the left to be just another Bush bash for political gain. Remember America can do no good until the dems get back in power. The mainstream media will not miss a chance to remind us of that until then.

Salvage33 · 01-09-2005, 04:43 PM

satellite...you are right on with your thoughts. What most of us who were in the military endured during boot camp was, in a lot of cases, worse than what these detainees are enduring now. And what we went through in SEER school, especially the "pow camp" part of it was a lot worse than what these heathens go through.

John

berto64 · 01-09-2005, 04:54 PM

To hell with the Damnocrats! Their liberal whining IS harming our troops morale and contributing to the increase in casualties among coalition troops, especially those of the United States.

I agree that if it is at all possible these poeple should be held accountable for their actions.

01-08-2005, 02:03 PM	#1
Salvage33 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA why leave the USA to visit a 3rd world country? Posts: 475	The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... This has bothered me for quite some time, and think I will toss out my thoughts on the subject and let you respond.... The senate confirmation hearings are underway for Mr. Alberto Gonzalez for the presidential appointment as our next Attorney General of the United States. Since his nomination has been announced, the dems have been ramping up a campaign to cast doubt on his ability to enforce the laws of the country. They are basing their opposition to Mr. Gonzalez on the fact that he asked several attorneys and professors of law from around the country on their opinions regarding legal interrogation techniques to be used on the detainees now located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. However, the diatribe has not centered on those prisoners but rather the actions of U.S. military personnel at Abu Ghraib Prison, saying, in effect, that he supports torture, of any and all kinds. If one wants a classic example of prisoner abuse, I remind you of the picture taken during the Vietnam War of the South Vietnamese colonel who shot a captured Viet Cong in the middle of the street. Now that was a real case of prisoner abuse! In essence, the dems on the committee are supporting terrorists (this is my take on it) and are, by their questions and statements, not only telling any terrorist or "insurgent" captured what they have to do in order to not tell us anything! By their actions and statements, in my opinion, they are offering aid and comfort to the enemy, and are guilty of treasonous acts against this country, placing our troops in further harm's way, and violating their oath of office, "to protect our Constitution from all ememies, foreign and domestic...." To my way of thinking, they are the enemy within. In Mr. Gonzalez's defense, the opinions he sought were rendered by noted legal minds, and his compilations of their opinions were summarized by him and submitted to the President for review, and with, I'm certain, recommendations. What follows is a graphic representation of who the democrat senators on the committee seek to assist in their bid to deny Mr. Gonzalez' appointment and ratification. It is obvious that these senators have never served in the armed forces of this nation, know nothing about combat, and what it takes to keep troops alive in combat. By their actions they are also denying our forces of needed time sensitive intelligence information. Again, I reiterate that these elected officials are more concerned about the assumed indignities that a detainee might suffer than the lives of our troops. As those of you who have served, and led, then you know that a commander's primary responsibility is the safety and well being of his men. And gathering intelligence is just one of the many venues to carry out that responsibility. But this group of "gentlemen and gentle ladies" is doing everything that they can do to deny our commanders in the field the ability to do their job properly, all the while bemoaning the deaths of our troops! And that really pisses me off!!!! You might have noticed that I have not used the term 'prisoner of war.' The people detained at Guantanamo are not prisoners of war. They were not wearing the uniform of a sovreign nation while under arms, and they were trying to kill U.S. forces. The terrorists/insurgents in Iraq were/are not wearing uniforms of a sovreign nation and are killing U.S. forces. Neither of these two groups captives are not subject to the Geneva Convention, and privelages and rights accorded thereunder. It is argued by dems/liberals that if we don't mind our manners with these captives, that our troops will suffer from torture. Do they not read the newspaper or watch television? Does the name Nicholas Berg mean nothing to them? I have to assume that they don't, or they don't think being butchered and beheaded is torture or cruel and inhumane treatment. I wonder what they would do if their child was kidnapped, buried alive, and the perpetrator caught and he wouldn't divulge the location of that child? Do you think that in THAT case they might have a different point of view? I do! I will be most interested in hearing your responses. Both pro and con. Thanks for letting me vent! John Attached Images __________________ Living in a nudist colony takes all the fun out of Halloween. -->

01-08-2005, 02:19 PM	#2
geezler V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 253	Re: The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... By nature and raising I am not an inhumane person BUT if torture is the only way to get the answers that will save American soldiers lives then so be it and the heck with world opinion!! As far as Mr. alberto goes, there may be some latent racism popping it's head up under guise.

01-09-2005, 02:32 PM	#5
rosierita Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5,218	Re: The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... sights like the above pics boil my blood when it comes to liberals! i think we should work to expose their anti american stance at every possible turn. where is their outrage?? __________________ Last edited by rosierita; 01-09-2005 at 02:35 PM..

01-09-2005, 04:25 PM	#6
Salvage33 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA why leave the USA to visit a 3rd world country? Posts: 475	Re: The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... Rosie...<high 5>... well...if you listen to the libs/pantywearing sniveling rhetoric, we should probably apologize for being in an area where our people can be kidnapped and beheaded! Personally, I think all of those that are of that mind set should go to Iraq IMMEDIATELY and tell those nasty little terrorist types that they are sorry, just so we can watch them butchered and beheaded as their reward. Don't mean to sound so blood thirsty....but the real truth is...in war, there are no rules! But they think there are, and we are the only ones who should have to abide by them. arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! John __________________ Living in a nudist colony takes all the fun out of Halloween.

01-09-2005, 04:34 PM	#7
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	Re: The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... I will admit I have not followed this torture stuff all that closely. From what I have seen it does not seem to be torture according to my definition. It seems like over zealous frat hazing more than torture. The bottom line is that these people do not subscribe to nor are they signatories to any of the Geneva Conventions or any other treaties regarding prisoner treatment. I find all the hand wringing and moaning by the left to be just another Bush bash for political gain. Remember America can do no good until the dems get back in power. The mainstream media will not miss a chance to remind us of that until then. __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

01-09-2005, 04:43 PM	#8
Salvage33 V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA why leave the USA to visit a 3rd world country? Posts: 475	Re: The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... satellite...you are right on with your thoughts. What most of us who were in the military endured during boot camp was, in a lot of cases, worse than what these detainees are enduring now. And what we went through in SEER school, especially the "pow camp" part of it was a lot worse than what these heathens go through. John __________________ Living in a nudist colony takes all the fun out of Halloween.

01-09-2005, 04:54 PM	#9
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,388	Re: The REAL Dem/Lib Senators... To hell with the Damnocrats! Their liberal whining IS harming our troops morale and contributing to the increase in casualties among coalition troops, especially those of the United States. I agree that if it is at all possible these poeple should be held accountable for their actions. __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.