California laws: Loopholes - The Firearms Forum

LDBennett · 01-30-2012, 08:07 AM

I went to a gun show this weekend in CA (somewhere?) and saw two things that blew me away. They represent some ingenious thinking on someone's part.

The CA law describes which "Assault Weapons" Californians can not have both by name and by characteristics. The law is usurped by building an AW around the characteristic and not using the named guns as a base. One feature is a removable magazine. So some smart person designed a "bullet button" to replace the common button such that it requires a tool to remove the magazine. But by court decision a bullet nose is a tool and that is what is used. Some smart individual came up with a small round magnet that fits in the button hole and stays attached by magnetism that allows the magazine button to be depressed. So you show up at the range, install the magnet, and use the magazine button as you would any other mag button.

California's can not buy magazines over 10 rounds. Some magazines come with a block in them that can be removed to get you the designed capacity, not the limited 10 round capacity. They are somewhat legal after the modification since the law covers the sale not possession of "high capacity" magazines. At the gun show I saw mags with more than 10 rounds for sale. How do they do it without going to jail? They take larger capacity magazines in the factory packaging and cut off the nomenclature on the packaging that identifies what it is. They pull the bottom plate off the mag and stick all the parts back in the remains of the packaging and call it a magazine repair kit. They add a sticker that says do not assemble these parts as a magazine.

Ingenious! It just goes to show you that where there is a law there is a usually a way around it.

Here's another related example. The AW ban in CA is being usurped so regularly and completely that these gun shows (and at many gun shops throughout Cailifornia) are selling "adjusted and legal" AW's like crazy. Every table where they were being sold (legally!!) had people in front of it three deep. There were many of these AW dealers throughout the show. The aisles all over the gun show were terribly crowded to the point that the show was almost a complete waist for me.

Now if we could just find the loop holes in OBAMACARE and all the other socialistic regulations and laws this current set of progressive legislators and president passed, how nice it would be!!!

LDBennett

howlnmad · 01-30-2012, 09:29 AM

Pretty ingenious thinking on their part. I wonder how long before the regulators catch on and put a stop to it?

Albtraum · 01-30-2012, 12:17 PM

Pretty much sums up my experience at the last gun show I went to. ARs, AKs, Kel Tecs, and Saigas were the majority, everything tactical. I recall seeing 90 round drums and 25 round 10/22 mags. They also had some 50 bmgs for us Californians to drool over.

Caneman · 01-30-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

California's can not buy magazines over 10 rounds. Some magazines come with a block in them that can be removed to get you the designed capacity, not the limited 10 round capacity. They are somewhat legal after the modification since the law covers the sale not possession of "high capacity" magazines. At the gun show I saw mags with more than 10 rounds for sale. How do they do it without going to jail? They take larger capacity magazines in the factory packaging and cut off the nomenclature on the packaging that identifies what it is. They pull the bottom plate off the mag and stick all the parts back in the remains of the packaging and call it a magazine repair kit. They add a sticker that says do not assemble these parts as a magazine.

they can legally sell 'parts' of high cap mags like this, and they know that if the disassemble these mags (just have to take the bottom plate off) they can sell it... you can buy these 'parts' but you can't take it home and 'manufacture' the parts and assemble them into a high cap mag because this is 'manufacturing' a high cap mag and this is illegal

H-D · 01-30-2012, 02:03 PM

Also a ffl 7 can take a pistol that is not ca approved and make it a single. Shot .. then sell you the pistol, you bring it back and have it repaired , boom legally purchased pistol

bmpeele · 01-30-2012, 03:32 PM

Am I the only one who realizes that while this is good for those looking to obey the law, someone that was supplying guns to gangs could easily get the criminals the guns they want because of this? I'm not saying it's all bad, just that it's not exactly helping.

Grizz · 01-30-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmpeele

Am I the only one who realizes that while this is good for those looking to obey the law, someone that was supplying guns to gangs could easily get the criminals the guns they want because of this? I'm not saying it's all bad, just that it's not exactly helping.

The gangsters buy what's on the street, they don't like spending more than $50 on a "piece". I think this really helps the people

LDBennett · 01-31-2012, 06:06 AM

These CA laws are STUPID.

If there is a way around them (legal loophole) it sure does not bother me. These laws exist because there are people in control that do not want you and me to have guns, any guns. Every road block they throw in the way frustrates some of us enough to make us walk away from buying any gun... That's their plan.

The bad guys can get whatever they want through illegal channels and if and when all the guns dry up they will still have them. And when there are no guns they'll have knives or whatever will hurt you and me. It is the way society works now and has for all the history of humans on this earth. Us good guys need protection and if it is AW's or 15 round mags or any guns at all then we NEED to go for it.

The only way to protect yourself against street gangs is to be better armed than they are and be a better shooter. They don't want a gun fight with an armed non-gang person and just knowing everybody has the potential of owning a gun is safety in and of itself. Staying out of the drug culture altogether is still another way that will work almost all the time. Taking away my gun is no protection for me.

LDBennett

Silencer · 01-31-2012, 11:12 AM

Word of warning about these guns, cops tend to think you're doing something illegal and will do a felony stop on you when they see you.

Grizz · 01-31-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silencer

Word of warning about these guns, cops tend to think you're doing something illegal and will do a felony stop on you when they see you.

And here I thought cops were supposed to serve and protect

LDBennett · 02-01-2012, 06:02 AM

If the "guns" are in a case in the trunk or out of sight how would any COP even know what you have?

The guns are legal. Sonoma County is in a lawsuit for erroneously making an illegal arrest of a CA legal AW owner and it will probably cost them a pretty penny. You don't think other city PD's have not taken notice?

http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=360

LDBennett

01-30-2012, 08:07 AM	#1
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	California laws: Loopholes I went to a gun show this weekend in CA (somewhere?) and saw two things that blew me away. They represent some ingenious thinking on someone's part. The CA law describes which "Assault Weapons" Californians can not have both by name and by characteristics. The law is usurped by building an AW around the characteristic and not using the named guns as a base. One feature is a removable magazine. So some smart person designed a "bullet button" to replace the common button such that it requires a tool to remove the magazine. But by court decision a bullet nose is a tool and that is what is used. Some smart individual came up with a small round magnet that fits in the button hole and stays attached by magnetism that allows the magazine button to be depressed. So you show up at the range, install the magnet, and use the magazine button as you would any other mag button. California's can not buy magazines over 10 rounds. Some magazines come with a block in them that can be removed to get you the designed capacity, not the limited 10 round capacity. They are somewhat legal after the modification since the law covers the sale not possession of "high capacity" magazines. At the gun show I saw mags with more than 10 rounds for sale. How do they do it without going to jail? They take larger capacity magazines in the factory packaging and cut off the nomenclature on the packaging that identifies what it is. They pull the bottom plate off the mag and stick all the parts back in the remains of the packaging and call it a magazine repair kit. They add a sticker that says do not assemble these parts as a magazine. Ingenious! It just goes to show you that where there is a law there is a usually a way around it. Here's another related example. The AW ban in CA is being usurped so regularly and completely that these gun shows (and at many gun shops throughout Cailifornia) are selling "adjusted and legal" AW's like crazy. Every table where they were being sold (legally!!) had people in front of it three deep. There were many of these AW dealers throughout the show. The aisles all over the gun show were terribly crowded to the point that the show was almost a complete waist for me. Now if we could just find the loop holes in OBAMACARE and all the other socialistic regulations and laws this current set of progressive legislators and president passed, how nice it would be!!! LDBennett -->

01-30-2012, 09:29 AM	#2
howlnmad Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Harriman, Tn Contributor Posts: 2,637	Re: California laws: Loopholes Pretty ingenious thinking on their part. I wonder how long before the regulators catch on and put a stop to it? __________________

01-30-2012, 12:17 PM	#3
Albtraum Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 686	Re: California laws: Loopholes Pretty much sums up my experience at the last gun show I went to. ARs, AKs, Kel Tecs, and Saigas were the majority, everything tactical. I recall seeing 90 round drums and 25 round 10/22 mags. They also had some 50 bmgs for us Californians to drool over.

01-30-2012, 02:03 PM	#5
H-D Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,334	Re: California laws: Loopholes Also a ffl 7 can take a pistol that is not ca approved and make it a single. Shot .. then sell you the pistol, you bring it back and have it repaired , boom legally purchased pistol __________________ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

01-30-2012, 03:32 PM	#6
bmpeele V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: The grand old state of North Carolina Posts: 492	Re: California laws: Loopholes Am I the only one who realizes that while this is good for those looking to obey the law, someone that was supplying guns to gangs could easily get the criminals the guns they want because of this? I'm not saying it's all bad, just that it's not exactly helping. __________________ It's not the size, it's the placement of the bullet.

01-31-2012, 06:06 AM	#8
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	Re: California laws: Loopholes These CA laws are STUPID. If there is a way around them (legal loophole) it sure does not bother me. These laws exist because there are people in control that do not want you and me to have guns, any guns. Every road block they throw in the way frustrates some of us enough to make us walk away from buying any gun... That's their plan. The bad guys can get whatever they want through illegal channels and if and when all the guns dry up they will still have them. And when there are no guns they'll have knives or whatever will hurt you and me. It is the way society works now and has for all the history of humans on this earth. Us good guys need protection and if it is AW's or 15 round mags or any guns at all then we NEED to go for it. The only way to protect yourself against street gangs is to be better armed than they are and be a better shooter. They don't want a gun fight with an armed non-gang person and just knowing everybody has the potential of owning a gun is safety in and of itself. Staying out of the drug culture altogether is still another way that will work almost all the time. Taking away my gun is no protection for me. LDBennett

01-31-2012, 11:12 AM	#9
Silencer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southern California: Inland Empire Posts: 1,331	Re: California laws: Loopholes Word of warning about these guns, cops tend to think you're doing something illegal and will do a felony stop on you when they see you. __________________ War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. Skeet Shooting Game! Don't Shoot Your Eye Out!

02-01-2012, 06:02 AM	#11
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,754	Re: California laws: Loopholes If the "guns" are in a case in the trunk or out of sight how would any COP even know what you have? The guns are legal. Sonoma County is in a lawsuit for erroneously making an illegal arrest of a CA legal AW owner and it will probably cost them a pretty penny. You don't think other city PD's have not taken notice? http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=360 LDBennett