Interesting Issue Regarding the US Flag - The Firearms Forum

1952Sniper · 09-03-2003, 09:52 AM

I was having a conversation with my family over the holiday weekend. It seems that any time we get together, the discussions always revolve around politics and religion. I love it.

Anyway, we were discussing the growing problem of people who live in this country that do not consider themselves Americans and could care less about their country. My father was ranting about the hyphenated Americans (African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, etc.). His point was that they should drop the hyphenated part and just be AMERICANS.

Then I mentioned one of my pet peeves, which was seeing households and even businesses that fly the Mexican flag. I feel it is anti-American and treasonous to fly another nation's flag, either above or in lieu of the American flag while you're on US soil. It signifies that you are a citizen of another country and/or hold allegiance to another nation. In international waters, the flag you fly signifies exactly this. If you choose to fly a Russian flag on your vessel, then any other vessel that sees you automatically assumes you are Russian. And if they are at war with Russia, then they can legally fire on your vessel. See my point? Flying a flag is much more symbolic than simply supporting a cause or displaying pride in your heritage. It is an internationally-recognized banner that advertises your nationality.

When an American citizen flies a Mexican flag over his house, he advertises to all his neighbors that he holds allegiance to that country over America. I personally feel that they should be flying their Mexican flag BELOW the US flag. This will put it into perspective for us all, so we know they are not traitors.

I did a little research on US Flag laws and regulations, and I found that this actually seems to be in force already. See This Page for all the laws and regulations concerning the US Flag. There are two things I want to point out.

First, it seems that all of these regulations are covered by Executive Order. It has been clearly shown that Executive Orders carry the weight of law.

Second, there is one paragraph at the bottom of the page that says:

Quote:

No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof; Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.

By snipping out some words and getting to the gist of it, that paragraph can be shortened to:

No person shall display... any other national or international flag... in place of the flag of the United States at any place within the United States.

In other words, it is illegal to fly a Mexican flag above your house or business in the USA, unless it is below the US Flag. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any of you legal-minded folks have any comments?

Shizamus · 09-03-2003, 10:26 AM

Seems to be correct from where i am standing.

To take it one step further, the states are Sovereign.
So the state flag should be at the highest point, and
the US flag below it, etc.
It's about who dominates who.

Could go like this,

Don't tread on me flag first, on top.
State flag second,
US flag 3rd
etc. etc.

Shizamus · 09-03-2003, 10:43 AM

Texas homeowner ordered to remove flag:

http://www.ankarlo.net/

09-03-2003, 10:54 AM

When entering Len's Gun Shop in South Bend, Indiana, you are kindly asked to wipe your feet ... on the UN Flag!

1952Sniper · 09-03-2003, 11:05 AM

Shizamus, that story really gets under my skin. I've seen that happen several times since 9/11. In some cases, the homeowners associations were justified, such as when people painted their garage doors with the flag.

But if some jackass told me I had to take down my flag because it might offend somebody, I'd tell them to take a flying leap. I'd leave it up and dare them to touch it.

Rick, I would gladly wipe my feet on that UN flag. But first, I'd have to go step in some dog poop.

Back on the subject of which flags should fly higher and whatnot, I have no problem with flying a state flag by itself. That's legal and there are no issues there. I disagree, though, with flying a state flag over the US flag. States are not sovereign, nor were they intended to be superior to the US.

I think the real problem with people flying Mexican flags (or other countries, for that matter) is that no one really understands any more what flying a flag means. They think it's the same as wearing a t-shirt, and that it means nothing. I don't even have a problem with them hanging their Mexican flag in their house. But to fly it on a pole over a piece of property is significant.

Shizamus · 09-03-2003, 11:46 AM

States are sovereign and cannot be dictated to by the federal government under our constitutional republic except for the specific cases mentioned in the United States Constitution. According to Article 3 Section 2 of the United States Constitution, a federal judge cannot tell a state judge what to do.

09-03-2003, 12:24 PM

I just made a special visit to Len's to try out my new camera.

What do you think?

09-03-2003, 12:30 PM

how about this 1 ... hehehe

1952Sniper · 09-03-2003, 12:33 PM

Quote:

a federal judge cannot tell a state judge what to do

Hmmm, tell that to Justice Roy Moore. I know what you're saying, though. Unfortunately, the system is not what it was intended to be. Abraham Lincoln and his cronies took care of that.

Rick, that is cool!

inplanotx · 09-03-2003, 12:39 PM

Just to make sure it is understood:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof; Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means that NO FLAG shall be held higher than the US flag. This includes state flags or any other flag. Another point to make is that the US flag will NEVER be dipped to any other when in a function in public. This should make it perfectly clear. I always carry the above section of US code and show that to the people I see showing their own country's flag over the US. Another point which bothers me is when people do not properly display the American flag, especially those with home flag poles that leave them flying over night without a light shinning on the flag. It is against US code also.

cruiser348 · 09-05-2003, 10:55 PM

If I remember correctly wasn't there a big mention on CNN some time ago about one of the bigwig Dem. Senators who was against the war in Iraq who had taken to flying the UN flag outside his office in lieu of a US flag? If I'm correct I might just have to dig through the local paper's archives to see if I can pull up the name of this official so that I might get to writing a few letters to see if he understands that ontop of being an indifferent jackass he is also in violation of a US Executive order. Might have to also send a copy of said correspondence to a few other of the fine folks in DC just to be sure that someone might read it and be able to interpret the words with more than 3 letters.

inplanotx · 09-06-2003, 06:27 AM

Yea Cruiser348, I remeber an article about that. If you can find it, please post it and I too will write him a letter.

09-03-2003, 10:26 AM	#2
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	Seems to be correct from where i am standing. To take it one step further, the states are Sovereign. So the state flag should be at the highest point, and the US flag below it, etc. It's about who dominates who. Could go like this, Don't tread on me flag first, on top. State flag second, US flag 3rd etc. etc. __________________ “The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds we are trying to save. Until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they’ll fight to protect it. “The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.” - Morpheus, in the movie, “The Matrix”

09-03-2003, 10:43 AM	#3
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	Texas homeowner ordered to remove flag: http://www.ankarlo.net/ __________________ “The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds we are trying to save. Until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they’ll fight to protect it. “The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.” - Morpheus, in the movie, “The Matrix”

09-03-2003, 11:46 AM	#6
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	States are sovereign and cannot be dictated to by the federal government under our constitutional republic except for the specific cases mentioned in the United States Constitution. According to Article 3 Section 2 of the United States Constitution, a federal judge cannot tell a state judge what to do. __________________ “The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds we are trying to save. Until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they’ll fight to protect it. “The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.” - Morpheus, in the movie, “The Matrix”

09-03-2003, 12:24 PM	#7
Zigzag2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	I just made a special visit to Len's to try out my new camera. What do you think? Attached Images

09-03-2003, 12:30 PM	#8
Zigzag2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	how about this 1 ... hehehe Attached Images

09-03-2003, 10:54 AM	#4
Zigzag2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	When entering Len's Gun Shop in South Bend, Indiana, you are kindly asked to wipe your feet ... on the UN Flag!

09-03-2003, 11:05 AM	#5
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Shizamus, that story really gets under my skin. I've seen that happen several times since 9/11. In some cases, the homeowners associations were justified, such as when people painted their garage doors with the flag. But if some jackass told me I had to take down my flag because it might offend somebody, I'd tell them to take a flying leap. I'd leave it up and dare them to touch it. Rick, I would gladly wipe my feet on that UN flag. But first, I'd have to go step in some dog poop. Back on the subject of which flags should fly higher and whatnot, I have no problem with flying a state flag by itself. That's legal and there are no issues there. I disagree, though, with flying a state flag over the US flag. States are not sovereign, nor were they intended to be superior to the US. I think the real problem with people flying Mexican flags (or other countries, for that matter) is that no one really understands any more what flying a flag means. They think it's the same as wearing a t-shirt, and that it means nothing. I don't even have a problem with them hanging their Mexican flag in their house. But to fly it on a pole over a piece of property is significant.

09-03-2003, 12:39 PM	#10
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	Just to make sure it is understood: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof; Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This means that NO FLAG shall be held higher than the US flag. This includes state flags or any other flag. Another point to make is that the US flag will NEVER be dipped to any other when in a function in public. This should make it perfectly clear. I always carry the above section of US code and show that to the people I see showing their own country's flag over the US. Another point which bothers me is when people do not properly display the American flag, especially those with home flag poles that leave them flying over night without a light shinning on the flag. It is against US code also. __________________

09-05-2003, 10:55 PM	#11
cruiser348 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: southern Ohio Posts: 70	If I remember correctly wasn't there a big mention on CNN some time ago about one of the bigwig Dem. Senators who was against the war in Iraq who had taken to flying the UN flag outside his office in lieu of a US flag? If I'm correct I might just have to dig through the local paper's archives to see if I can pull up the name of this official so that I might get to writing a few letters to see if he understands that ontop of being an indifferent jackass he is also in violation of a US Executive order. Might have to also send a copy of said correspondence to a few other of the fine folks in DC just to be sure that someone might read it and be able to interpret the words with more than 3 letters. Last edited by cruiser348; 09-05-2003 at 10:56 PM..

09-06-2003, 06:27 AM	#12
inplanotx Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 8,897	Yea Cruiser348, I remeber an article about that. If you can find it, please post it and I too will write him a letter. __________________