7.62x54r - split shoulders question - The Firearms Forum

DoesItMatter · 10-01-2008, 11:14 PM

OK...

Only have had time to goto the range once with my 91/30 so far.

Fired 50 rounds of Surplus thru it, then cleaned it thoroughly.

My question, before I start shooting the brass cases and reloading those:

Out of the 50 surplus rounds, which look like 50's manufactured,
am guessing either Czech or Bulgaria, light ball fmj's, steel copper washed.

Maybe 5 out of the 50 had split shoulders on them, so 10% ratio.

Still have another 50 rounds of surplus that I'll fire next time and see.
I was having sticky extraction, so I really cleaned out the chamber,
and will be taking my cleaning kit next time to hot-clean it after firing a few.

My question is: Could there be a tiny burr causing the split?
The other ones that didn't split, I did not notice any weird marks on those
shoulders, but they're all pretty dinged up anyway.
Or is this just the result of 50-ish year old steel ammo and to be expected?

TranterUK · 10-02-2008, 01:45 AM

I have also had old ammunition split, in particular 1940s and 1950s .303.

Most often they would split around the neck. I put it down to the age of the case, perhaps becoming less mailable over time. So I doubt there is any burr causing the problem.

Haligan · 10-05-2008, 09:41 AM

Before you make any changes or plan any course of action, shoot some new quality brass like WIN, or REM, and see what you get. I think TranterUK mabe right.

Pistolenschutze · 10-05-2008, 10:43 AM

I too have had a few neck splits using older Eastern European 7.62 x 54R ammo. I've never had one in my Mosins using more recently manufactured ammo, even the Russian stuff like Wolf or Silver Bear.

pawn · 10-05-2008, 03:20 PM

I was in a gunshop when a guy brought in a spent 7.62X54r casing fired in his 91/30 that had also split in the shoulder. He had a live round of the same ammo; it had a yellow tip.

A shop employee stated that the split was due to shooting heavy ball in the rifle. He (employee) indicated that heavy ball was made for machine gun use....

I didn't comment, however, I didn't agree either.

Thoughts?

Popgunner · 10-06-2008, 12:19 AM

The brass is just old. The US military rotates out ammo when it's 5 years old for just that reason-to avoid split necks. The worst milsurp ammo seems to have been 1947 8mm Turk. Lots of splits with that year. Not usually a problem to fire it. The further back on the case the more serious the situation. I check milsurp ammo I buy & have sent back any that has splits. The dealers usually accept it back.

nightfighter · 10-08-2008, 08:56 PM

A longitudinal split in the neck is always caused by brittle brass. Research and learn about annealing brass (only the neck should be annealed) to make it softer. After the cases that were not split are annealed, they will not present with that problem again for a long time.

muddober · 10-11-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoesItMatter

OK...Or is this just the result of 50-ish year old steel ammo and to be expected?

That is your answer if the cases are steel. One has to keep in mind that chambers vary from gun to gun and steel cases won't take a much fire-forming at all and my guess is that your slits are linear with the case which is and was expected. Additionally the thought of reloading that stuff never entered the mind of the designer because it was to be left on the battle field. As for annealing steel cases I don't think you can get there from here.

10-01-2008, 11:14 PM	#1
DoesItMatter V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pacific NorthWest Posts: 109	7.62x54r - split shoulders question OK... Only have had time to goto the range once with my 91/30 so far. Fired 50 rounds of Surplus thru it, then cleaned it thoroughly. My question, before I start shooting the brass cases and reloading those: Out of the 50 surplus rounds, which look like 50's manufactured, am guessing either Czech or Bulgaria, light ball fmj's, steel copper washed. Maybe 5 out of the 50 had split shoulders on them, so 10% ratio. Still have another 50 rounds of surplus that I'll fire next time and see. I was having sticky extraction, so I really cleaned out the chamber, and will be taking my cleaning kit next time to hot-clean it after firing a few. My question is: Could there be a tiny burr causing the split? The other ones that didn't split, I did not notice any weird marks on those shoulders, but they're all pretty dinged up anyway. Or is this just the result of 50-ish year old steel ammo and to be expected? -->

10-02-2008, 01:45 AM	#2
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: 7.62x54r - split shoulders question I have also had old ammunition split, in particular 1940s and 1950s .303. Most often they would split around the neck. I put it down to the age of the case, perhaps becoming less mailable over time. So I doubt there is any burr causing the problem. __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way! Last edited by TranterUK; 10-02-2008 at 01:46 AM..

10-05-2008, 09:41 AM	#3
Haligan Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: FEMA Region II Posts: 1,900	Re: 7.62x54r - split shoulders question Before you make any changes or plan any course of action, shoot some new quality brass like WIN, or REM, and see what you get. I think TranterUK mabe right. __________________ "He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falshoods and errors." - Thomas Jefferson

10-05-2008, 10:43 AM	#4
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: 7.62x54r - split shoulders question I too have had a few neck splits using older Eastern European 7.62 x 54R ammo. I've never had one in my Mosins using more recently manufactured ammo, even the Russian stuff like Wolf or Silver Bear. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

10-05-2008, 03:20 PM	#5
pawn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Crossville, TN Posts: 1,469	Re: 7.62x54r - split shoulders question I was in a gunshop when a guy brought in a spent 7.62X54r casing fired in his 91/30 that had also split in the shoulder. He had a live round of the same ammo; it had a yellow tip. A shop employee stated that the split was due to shooting heavy ball in the rifle. He (employee) indicated that heavy ball was made for machine gun use.... I didn't comment, however, I didn't agree either. Thoughts? __________________ Take care when you get information. The truth is generally seen, rarely heard. -Balthasar Gracian

10-06-2008, 12:19 AM	#6
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: 7.62x54r - split shoulders question The brass is just old. The US military rotates out ammo when it's 5 years old for just that reason-to avoid split necks. The worst milsurp ammo seems to have been 1947 8mm Turk. Lots of splits with that year. Not usually a problem to fire it. The further back on the case the more serious the situation. I check milsurp ammo I buy & have sent back any that has splits. The dealers usually accept it back.

10-08-2008, 08:56 PM	#7
nightfighter V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 118	Re: 7.62x54r - split shoulders question A longitudinal split in the neck is always caused by brittle brass. Research and learn about annealing brass (only the neck should be annealed) to make it softer. After the cases that were not split are annealed, they will not present with that problem again for a long time.