Luger pistol - The Firearms Forum

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 09:59 PM

Hi, I am new here from Interior Alaska, one of your members suggested that I join and since I did, I have a question that maybe some of you guys may be able to help me with.

I have a German Luger that has been in the family for years and don't really know that much about it. I was wondering if some of you have some general knowledge you could part with and maybe tell me some of it's history and value for insuring it properly.

The Frame and barrel have two different serial numbers, that are a few numbers apart. I am told that during WWII, that wasn't uncommon for them to have been disassembled at the factory and all the parts were thrown into a bin for cleaning and then reassembled en mass. The barrel is about seven to seven and a half inches long.

The pistol doesn't look like it was shot much, there is three clips, one looks like the dimpled area where you pull out the clip is made of some kind of Bakelite, the other two look like wood. I assume one of them is original and the other later, but no idea of which is which.

Anyway, here is the photos and maybe you can help with them.

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 10:04 PM

Here is some more photos of the pistol.

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 10:07 PM

Some more photos of the pistol again

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 10:09 PM

This is the last photo of the pistol

300 H&H · 10-23-2010, 10:16 PM

welcome to this forum fogtender! Glad to see you made it. Back when the oil was leaking in the gulf, i posted your threads here for the membership to see. I think it helped some with comming to grips with the situation....

I hope you enjoy yourself here, as many do.

Regards, Kirk

Danny · 10-23-2010, 10:40 PM

Wow I do not know where to begin? First of all it is a 30cal Luger, instead of nine. The Germany stamp on the barrel signifies it was meant to be exported out of the country. The black bakelite mag should have an fxo somewhere stamped and is for a wartime Mauser Luger. The 2 wooden bases ones could be traced all the way back to 1900 to late twenties.
To be honest a 7inch barrel was meant for the artillery Luger.. I have heard of a 1920 Luger that fits this bill, but my old mine just cannot place it.
Go to Jan Stills Luger Forum & I know they will determine what you got.
Kind Regards
Danny

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 H&H

welcome to this forum fogtender! Glad to see you made it. Back when the oil was leaking in the gulf, i posted your threads here for the membership to see. I think it helped some with comming to grips with the situation....

I hope you enjoy yourself here, as many do.

Regards, Kirk

Thanks, didn't think anybody was really reading them! Other than a few of the FF guys.

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Wow I do not know where to begin? First of all it is a 30cal Luger, instead of nine. The Germany stamp on the barrel signifies it was meant to be exported out of the country. The black bakelite mag should have an fxo somewhere stamped and is for a wartime Mauser Luger. The 2 wooden bases ones could be traced all the way back to 1900 to late twenties.
To be honest a 7inch barrel was meant for the artillery Luger.. I have heard of a 1920 Luger that fits this bill, but my old mine just cannot place it.
Go to Jan Stills Luger Forum & I know they will determine what you got.
Kind Regards
Danny

Well thanks for that, anything I can get will fill in the holes. Is the Luger Forum here or elsewhere on the web?

valbehaved · 10-23-2010, 11:10 PM

Your gun was made in the 20's from the parts left over after WWI - the receiver is from a military WWI luger , the frame is from another WWI luger or possibly newly made in 1920s. the barrel could be either .30 or 9mm(.30 more likely) and was made in the 20's. Most of these were made for export and majority for US market with varying barrel lengths and in various configurations. After the gun was assembled, it was given a new coat of "rust blue".

fogtender · 10-23-2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valbehaved

Your gun was made in the 20's from the parts left over after WWI - the receiver is from a military WWI luger , the frame is from another WWI luger or possibly newly made in 1920s. the barrel could be either .30 or 9mm(.30 more likely) and was made in the 20's. Most of these were made for export and majority for US market with varying barrel lengths and in various configurations. After the gun was assembled, it was given a new coat of "rust blue".

It appears to be a .30 since that is what the old ammo has on it. All the small parts have the number 20 stamped on them, is that part of the 3020 serial number on the frame?

Danny · 10-24-2010, 08:26 AM

Yes, every small part of the weapon will have the last two digits on them. That is why the receiver is mismatched & basically makes it a shooter & not of collector grade.
Kind Regards
Danny

fogtender · 10-24-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Yes, every small part of the weapon will have the last two digits on them. That is why the receiver is mismatched & basically makes it a shooter & not of collector grade.
Kind Regards
Danny

Thanks, any guess on what the value would be on it.

Jim K · 10-24-2010, 08:59 PM

A bit more info. After WWI, Germany was in dire financial straits. One of its few assets cosisted of tons of rifles and pistols. But the Versailles treaty banned German gun makers from selling 9mm pistols to anyone but the govermment (which had plenty), so they took hundreds of thousands of old Lugers, rebarrelled them to .30 Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), refurbished them, and peddled them on the world market. Parts were replaced as needed.

The "Germany" mark didn't really mean the gun was for export from Germany; it was the country of origin mark required by U.S. law on all goods imported into this country.

BTW, the "they mixed up the parts in cleaning" is an old story told by people selling "frankenguns" to explain why numbers don't match on guns built from numbered parts.

Value? I would estimate around $500 as a shooter. Unless you invent a story or two about capturing it from Hitler himself.

Jim

fogtender · 10-25-2010, 01:27 PM

I was hoping it was going to be something special to pass on instead of a "shooter" pistol. I knew it wasn't complete because of the different serial numbers on the frame and barrel, but they appeared to be only 14 numbers apart which was a bit different. I have a lot of "Shooters" so I will prob sell this one if anyone is interested. From different sites I have been told it was worth up to $1,200.00+-.

Did I mention that it was stolen off Hitler when he was just starting out in Politics? ;-)

But Thanks all on the info supplied.

Jim K · 10-25-2010, 09:22 PM

Only 14 numbers apart? Maybe. The German numbering system used four digits and a letter suffix. This, combined with the maker's name or code and the date provided unique identification, but all three items have to be present. Here's why.

Each year, each maker started with 1, then went to 9999, then 1 a to 9999 a, 1 b to 9999 b, and so on. So if the suffix is not present (like on the receiver) a given number, like 3006, will repeat many times in one year for one maker. And many times the next year, etc. And if there are other makers, the whole system will be repeated for each.

But the entire number with the letter was not put on the Luger receiver, only on the grip frame. The four digits went on the receiver, but not the letter suffix. So 3006 may be 18 numbers ahead of 3020 l or many thousands and years away. There is no way we can tell.

Jim

fleetwood1976 · 10-25-2010, 09:36 PM

$500 seems real reasonable. I would buy it.

fogtender · 10-25-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleetwood1976

$500 seems real reasonable. I would buy it.

That is just the "Stolen From Hitler" markup!

10-23-2010, 09:59 PM	#1
fogtender Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10	Luger pistol Hi, I am new here from Interior Alaska, one of your members suggested that I join and since I did, I have a question that maybe some of you guys may be able to help me with. I have a German Luger that has been in the family for years and don't really know that much about it. I was wondering if some of you have some general knowledge you could part with and maybe tell me some of it's history and value for insuring it properly. The Frame and barrel have two different serial numbers, that are a few numbers apart. I am told that during WWII, that wasn't uncommon for them to have been disassembled at the factory and all the parts were thrown into a bin for cleaning and then reassembled en mass. The barrel is about seven to seven and a half inches long. The pistol doesn't look like it was shot much, there is three clips, one looks like the dimpled area where you pull out the clip is made of some kind of Bakelite, the other two look like wood. I assume one of them is original and the other later, but no idea of which is which. Anyway, here is the photos and maybe you can help with them. Attached Images -->

10-23-2010, 10:04 PM	#2
fogtender Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10	Re: Luger pistol Here is some more photos of the pistol. Attached Images

10-23-2010, 10:07 PM	#3
fogtender Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10	Re: Luger pistol Some more photos of the pistol again Attached Images

10-23-2010, 10:09 PM	#4
fogtender Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10	Re: Luger pistol This is the last photo of the pistol Attached Images

10-23-2010, 10:16 PM	#5
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: Luger pistol welcome to this forum fogtender! Glad to see you made it. Back when the oil was leaking in the gulf, i posted your threads here for the membership to see. I think it helped some with comming to grips with the situation.... I hope you enjoy yourself here, as many do. Regards, Kirk

10-23-2010, 10:40 PM	#6
Danny Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Va Contributor Posts: 594	Re: Luger pistol Wow I do not know where to begin? First of all it is a 30cal Luger, instead of nine. The Germany stamp on the barrel signifies it was meant to be exported out of the country. The black bakelite mag should have an fxo somewhere stamped and is for a wartime Mauser Luger. The 2 wooden bases ones could be traced all the way back to 1900 to late twenties. To be honest a 7inch barrel was meant for the artillery Luger.. I have heard of a 1920 Luger that fits this bill, but my old mine just cannot place it. Go to Jan Stills Luger Forum & I know they will determine what you got. Kind Regards Danny __________________ THE GUN HAS PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HISTORY. AN INVENTION WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED & DENOUNCED...SERVED HERO & VILLAIN ALIKE...AND CARRIES WITH IT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY...TO UNDERSTAND THE GUN IS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HISTORY.

10-23-2010, 11:10 PM	#9
valbehaved V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 234	Re: Luger pistol Your gun was made in the 20's from the parts left over after WWI - the receiver is from a military WWI luger , the frame is from another WWI luger or possibly newly made in 1920s. the barrel could be either .30 or 9mm(.30 more likely) and was made in the 20's. Most of these were made for export and majority for US market with varying barrel lengths and in various configurations. After the gun was assembled, it was given a new coat of "rust blue".

10-24-2010, 08:26 AM	#11
Danny Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Va Contributor Posts: 594	Re: Luger pistol Yes, every small part of the weapon will have the last two digits on them. That is why the receiver is mismatched & basically makes it a shooter & not of collector grade. Kind Regards Danny __________________ THE GUN HAS PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HISTORY. AN INVENTION WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED & DENOUNCED...SERVED HERO & VILLAIN ALIKE...AND CARRIES WITH IT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY...TO UNDERSTAND THE GUN IS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HISTORY.

10-24-2010, 08:59 PM	#13
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Luger pistol A bit more info. After WWI, Germany was in dire financial straits. One of its few assets cosisted of tons of rifles and pistols. But the Versailles treaty banned German gun makers from selling 9mm pistols to anyone but the govermment (which had plenty), so they took hundreds of thousands of old Lugers, rebarrelled them to .30 Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), refurbished them, and peddled them on the world market. Parts were replaced as needed. The "Germany" mark didn't really mean the gun was for export from Germany; it was the country of origin mark required by U.S. law on all goods imported into this country. BTW, the "they mixed up the parts in cleaning" is an old story told by people selling "frankenguns" to explain why numbers don't match on guns built from numbered parts. Value? I would estimate around $500 as a shooter. Unless you invent a story or two about capturing it from Hitler himself. Jim

10-25-2010, 01:27 PM	#14
fogtender Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10	Re: Luger pistol I was hoping it was going to be something special to pass on instead of a "shooter" pistol. I knew it wasn't complete because of the different serial numbers on the frame and barrel, but they appeared to be only 14 numbers apart which was a bit different. I have a lot of "Shooters" so I will prob sell this one if anyone is interested. From different sites I have been told it was worth up to $1,200.00+-. Did I mention that it was stolen off Hitler when he was just starting out in Politics? ;-) But Thanks all on the info supplied. Last edited by fogtender; 10-25-2010 at 01:31 PM..

10-25-2010, 09:22 PM	#15
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Luger pistol Only 14 numbers apart? Maybe. The German numbering system used four digits and a letter suffix. This, combined with the maker's name or code and the date provided unique identification, but all three items have to be present. Here's why. Each year, each maker started with 1, then went to 9999, then 1 a to 9999 a, 1 b to 9999 b, and so on. So if the suffix is not present (like on the receiver) a given number, like 3006, will repeat many times in one year for one maker. And many times the next year, etc. And if there are other makers, the whole system will be repeated for each. But the entire number with the letter was not put on the Luger receiver, only on the grip frame. The four digits went on the receiver, but not the letter suffix. So 3006 may be 18 numbers ahead of 3020 l or many thousands and years away. There is no way we can tell. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 10-25-2010 at 09:25 PM..

10-25-2010, 09:36 PM	#16
fleetwood1976 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Southern Indiana Contributor Posts: 1,333	Re: Luger pistol $500 seems real reasonable. I would buy it.