legal issue? - The Firearms Forum

rezvordwg · 08-01-2009, 02:34 PM

Is it legal to sell machine gun parts, like the actions of a Maxim 08 and Vickors without a license? Rez

user · 08-01-2009, 03:24 PM

yes, as long as you're not selling the action or receiver.

rezvordwg · 08-01-2009, 03:38 PM

So... Then, you need a license to sell the action, or the block mechanism for these items. Is it illegal to posses them also? Are most locale gun shops licensed ?...Rez

Alpo · 08-01-2009, 05:39 PM

It depends on the gun. Different parts of different guns are considered the "machine gun". On a Thompson it's the receiver. On an MP5 it's the sear. On a 1919 Browning it's the sideplate. These parts (and, as I said, the part depends on the gun) are the parts that are numbered. The parts that are papered. The parts that are restricted. Every other part of the gun can be sold. They are just parts.

It's not illegal to possess these parts. They just have to be registered. If they are not registered to you, then yes, it is illegal to possess them.

Most local gun shops are not licensed to sell machine guns.

rezvordwg · 08-02-2009, 07:23 AM

Then it's ok if the parts are not the Ser. number'd parts. All others are just parts and are not an issue of law, correct. Rez...

Alpo · 08-02-2009, 10:37 AM

My MP5 has a serial number on the gun. But the sear also has a serial number on it. The sear's number is the one on the registration paperwork. You could sell the barrel. It's just a barrel. You could sell the receiver. It is the "gun", under GCA68, and would have to be sold like a normal pistol or rifle. But the sear is the "machinegun", under NFA34, and has to be sold under those rules.

I'm not sure where the SN is on a Browning 1919 Light Machine Gun, but I bet it is NOT on the sideplate. There will be a number on the sideplate, though. That number will be on the NFA paperwork. The rest of the gun can be sold as is, or broken down and sold as parts. The gun's receiver is the "gun", under GCA68, and has to be sold like one. The sideplate is the "machine gun" and has to be sold under those laws.

So, even if the machine gun parts being sold are serial numbered, it still might not be the important part. You can't just make a blanket statement about anything having to do with machine guns, because the system is too confusing.

But, yes, if the parts are not serialed, they should be good to go. Unless they are parts that are "the part", but they were never registered so they don't have an NFA SN, and are contraband, or they are "the part", and the number has been removed, so they are contraband.

As I said, confusing.

TOOHSOTKIL · 08-02-2009, 10:48 PM

You need to get serial numbers out of your mind, many weapons are numbered on all parts. Each type of weapon may required a different part to be declared.
MP5`s come both ways, as a "sear" conversion or "receiver" gun.
Many HK`s are sear guns, but that is not cut and dry, some are registered receivers.

The Maxim and Vickor are the same gun, simply licensed in different countries.

medalguy · 08-30-2009, 12:27 AM

Another example: British Stens do not have a number on the receiver (casing) but on the mag housing. But the casing is the part that must be registered.

If you have a question about a specific weapon or part, let us know and someone can give you a definitive answer.

Hammerslagger · 08-30-2009, 12:08 PM

NFA matters are a very complicated subject.

Over the years the BATF has made a number of "Adminstrative Rulings" relative to many things including NFA items and specifically some machine gun parts. Possession of some parts (or combination thereof) alone, that were legally purchased, suddenly became the same as owning an unregistered machine gun. Some of the 6 or 7 parts that are different in a US M-2 Carbine as compared to the M-1 is a good example.

In the early 1960's the US Govt. sold surplus GI M-1 and M-2 Carbine parts by the ton. M-2 Carbine parts were offered for sale and legally sold by advertisers in publications like the Shotgun News. Then one day the purchasers found themselves to be "in possession of an unregistered machine gun" even though they possessed or owned no firearm that these parts fit into.

Some people have a harmless fascination with certain NFA items that causes them to acquire them legally and (unfortunately) sometimes illegally. I have seen the grief that both types of possession can bring. Unless you have a legitimate business reason for involvement with NFA items; I hold the opinion that you are wise not to be involved with them or their parts. Even though you are doing nothing illegal, there are some "lists" that a prudent person would rather stay off of in today's society.

08-01-2009, 02:34 PM	#1
rezvordwg Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	legal issue? Is it legal to sell machine gun parts, like the actions of a Maxim 08 and Vickors without a license? Rez -->

08-01-2009, 03:24 PM	#2
user Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern piedmont of Va. and Middle of Nowhere, West Virginia Posts: 1,013	Re: legal issue? yes, as long as you're not selling the action or receiver. __________________ ===== Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

08-01-2009, 03:38 PM	#3
rezvordwg Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Re: legal issue? So... Then, you need a license to sell the action, or the block mechanism for these items. Is it illegal to posses them also? Are most locale gun shops licensed ?...Rez

08-01-2009, 05:39 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,664	Re: legal issue? It depends on the gun. Different parts of different guns are considered the "machine gun". On a Thompson it's the receiver. On an MP5 it's the sear. On a 1919 Browning it's the sideplate. These parts (and, as I said, the part depends on the gun) are the parts that are numbered. The parts that are papered. The parts that are restricted. Every other part of the gun can be sold. They are just parts. It's not illegal to possess these parts. They just have to be registered. If they are not registered to you, then yes, it is illegal to possess them. Most local gun shops are not licensed to sell machine guns. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

08-02-2009, 07:23 AM	#5
rezvordwg Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3	Re: legal issue? Then it's ok if the parts are not the Ser. number'd parts. All others are just parts and are not an issue of law, correct. Rez...

08-02-2009, 10:37 AM	#6
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,664	Re: legal issue? My MP5 has a serial number on the gun. But the sear also has a serial number on it. The sear's number is the one on the registration paperwork. You could sell the barrel. It's just a barrel. You could sell the receiver. It is the "gun", under GCA68, and would have to be sold like a normal pistol or rifle. But the sear is the "machinegun", under NFA34, and has to be sold under those rules. I'm not sure where the SN is on a Browning 1919 Light Machine Gun, but I bet it is NOT on the sideplate. There will be a number on the sideplate, though. That number will be on the NFA paperwork. The rest of the gun can be sold as is, or broken down and sold as parts. The gun's receiver is the "gun", under GCA68, and has to be sold like one. The sideplate is the "machine gun" and has to be sold under those laws. So, even if the machine gun parts being sold are serial numbered, it still might not be the important part. You can't just make a blanket statement about anything having to do with machine guns, because the system is too confusing. But, yes, if the parts are not serialed, they should be good to go. Unless they are parts that are "the part", but they were never registered so they don't have an NFA SN, and are contraband, or they are "the part", and the number has been removed, so they are contraband. As I said, confusing. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

08-02-2009, 10:48 PM	#7
TOOHSOTKIL V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Curracus Posts: 318	Re: legal issue? You need to get serial numbers out of your mind, many weapons are numbered on all parts. Each type of weapon may required a different part to be declared. MP5`s come both ways, as a "sear" conversion or "receiver" gun. Many HK`s are sear guns, but that is not cut and dry, some are registered receivers. The Maxim and Vickor are the same gun, simply licensed in different countries.

08-30-2009, 12:27 AM	#8
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: legal issue? Another example: British Stens do not have a number on the receiver (casing) but on the mag housing. But the casing is the part that must be registered. If you have a question about a specific weapon or part, let us know and someone can give you a definitive answer.

08-30-2009, 12:08 PM	#9
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: legal issue? NFA matters are a very complicated subject. Over the years the BATF has made a number of "Adminstrative Rulings" relative to many things including NFA items and specifically some machine gun parts. Possession of some parts (or combination thereof) alone, that were legally purchased, suddenly became the same as owning an unregistered machine gun. Some of the 6 or 7 parts that are different in a US M-2 Carbine as compared to the M-1 is a good example. In the early 1960's the US Govt. sold surplus GI M-1 and M-2 Carbine parts by the ton. M-2 Carbine parts were offered for sale and legally sold by advertisers in publications like the Shotgun News. Then one day the purchasers found themselves to be "in possession of an unregistered machine gun" even though they possessed or owned no firearm that these parts fit into. Some people have a harmless fascination with certain NFA items that causes them to acquire them legally and (unfortunately) sometimes illegally. I have seen the grief that both types of possession can bring. Unless you have a legitimate business reason for involvement with NFA items; I hold the opinion that you are wise not to be involved with them or their parts. Even though you are doing nothing illegal, there are some "lists" that a prudent person would rather stay off of in today's society.