The word 'Gun' - The Firearms Forum

WHSmithIV · 06-30-2012, 02:26 AM

Gun is truly a word I don't understand. Firearm - yep, understand that one. Rifle - yep, understand that one too. Pistol - yep, no problem. Shotgun... well, borderline. I think a better name could be used - 'scatter rifle' for instance.

Gun... well, I do NOT own guns. I own firearms. I only own a m1911 pistol and a Marlin lever action 30-30 rifle. My rifle I get meat with. The word 'gun' is ugly to me.

Granted, I guess I'm a little prejudiced because I'm ex-military, still.. my firearms are not 'guns'

wv hillbilly · 06-30-2012, 05:49 AM

what the heck is a gunnie sargent then

carver · 06-30-2012, 06:38 AM

How the term "gun" came about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun

hardluk1 · 06-30-2012, 07:31 AM

Allways seems clear to me.

H-D · 06-30-2012, 07:38 AM

Scatter rifle ? Why would you call it that ? All the shotguns I have that "scatter" are smoothbore not "rifled" shotgun= a gun that shoots shot . As for the term "gun" its the media that is trying to make it a dirty word . I hate the term "assault rifle" .

Alpo · 06-30-2012, 07:42 AM

Apparently you don't understand rifle.

The original large hollow tube used for throwing rocks at the enemy by the explosion of the Chinese powder was a "gonne".

Later they made gonnes smaller and put a stick on them, so they could be carried and used by one man. These were called "hand gonnes".

Several centuries later, it was accidentally found that if grooves were cut into the interior of the barrel of a "gonne" (now spelled "gun"), the bullet could be sent more accurately. This new invention was called rifling, and the gun using it was called a "rifled gun". That was, over the years, changed to just "rifle".

There were now four types of guns. There was the smoothbore military shoulder arm - the musket. There was the smoothbore hunting gun used for wild birds on the wing - the fowling piece. There was the rifled hunting gun (until the invention of the Minie Ball, the rifle was too slow to reload to be of use by most militaries of the world, and the accuracy was unneeded by the methods of warfare of the time) - the rifle gun. There was the small gun that did not have a stock and was shot one-handed - the pistol, or hand gun.

Notice that everyone used a gun of some sort, except the military, which used a musket. The military must have its own terms for everything

Gradually the "rifled gun" just became a "rifle" and gun was, more and more, only used for smoothbores, by the ones that "claimed to know". The common people, however, still called them all guns, since they have been guns since they were invented.

The "fowling piece" became a "shotgun", since it was smoothbore (therefore, a "gun") and fired "shot" (a bunch of small pieces of lead, instead of one solid projectile).

Guns, at the time (both smoothbore and rifled), were measured as to size by the method of weighing lead spheres that would fit the bore. This method is still in use today. Shotgun gauges are like this. 12 solid lead balls, the diameter of the bore of a 12 gauge shotgun, weigh a pound. 16 solid lead balls the diameter of a 16 gauge weigh a pound, 20 the diameter of a 20 gauge weigh a pound, etc. So you might buy a rifle that was advertised as being "20 to the pound" or "32 to the pound". Eventually they stopped doing that with rifled firearms and measured the diameter of the projectile.

Comes the War Between the States, and, thanks to the invention of the Minie Ball, which allowed a rifle to be loaded quickly, the Union army was armed with Rifled Muskets. They still used muskets, because they were still the military and must use their own terms, and if you were so stupid or careless as to call your musket a gun, you were chastised and punished. Since these new guns were rifled, they were measured by bullet diameter.

Artillery, all through this time, has stayed pretty much the way it started. Hollow tube stopped at one end, throwing a round projectile down a smooth bore, by the explosion of powder. Someone got the bright idea that, if rifling a musket made it more accurate at distance, maybe it will work for a cannon. It did. And, just like with the personal guns, smoothbores were measured by weight (4-pounder, 6-pounder, etc), while the rifled ones were measured by diameter (3-inch gun, a 6-inch gun, etc).

By the turn of the 20th Century, the military had quit using muskets of any kind, and were just using rifles. Since the only smoothbores (guns) they still used were cannon, they decided that "gun" would only refer to cannon. And, since cannon are crew-served, "guns" are all "crew-served" weapons. Comes the Gatling Gun. The machine gun. Still crew-served. So it fits as a gun. Notice that, even though they are rifled, no one calls them the M2 Browning Heavy Machine Rifle. You never hear about the M60 Light Machine Rifle.

The thing that many people do not seem to realize is that, for the most part, we are not in the military. We do not sleep in a rack, live in a barracks, eat in a mess and urinate in a latrine. So why should we refer to all our guns as weapons and none of our guns as guns?

As for that Wiki article. I don't know how accurate the rest of it is. I stopped after the first couple of sentences. When the first thing it says is "A gun is a crew served weapon" - no. In the Army, maybe. But not in the civilian world.

todd51 · 06-30-2012, 08:29 AM

Dang Alpo, that was like reading the history of the gun. I guess I knew or have read most of what you just posted but I don't think I have ever seen it in such a short, accurate, easy to understand presentation. That was really well done. Thank you. Maybe we should nick name you the "Professor".

JohnHenry · 06-30-2012, 08:38 AM

"This is my rifle .... this is my gun
this one's for shooting, this one's for fun"

Some of us can draw a mental picture of this little poem .

geds · 06-30-2012, 09:12 AM

Nice summary Alpo! I have heard pieces separately but never had put it all together either!

Brass Tacks · 06-30-2012, 09:13 AM

machine gun

gunsmith

Guns and Ammo Magazine

gun control

gun cases

gun rack

gun safe

gun fire

gun boat

gun ship

gun powder

gun man

gun shot wound

gun runner

gun slinger

gun shot residue

Have Gun Will Travel

Fastest Gun Alive

gun walking

Old Grump · 06-30-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

gun (n.) Look up gun at Dictionary.com
mid-14c., gunne "an engine of war that throws rocks, arrows or other missiles," probably a shortening of woman's name Gunilda, found in M.E. gonnilde "cannon" and in an Anglo-Latin reference to a specific gun from a 1330 munitions inventory of Windsor Castle ("...una magna balista de cornu quae Domina Gunilda ..."), from O.N. Gunnhildr, woman's name, from gunnr + hildr, both meaning "war, battle." First element from PIE *gwhen- "to strike, kill" (see bane); for second, cf. Hilda. The identification of women with powerful weapons is common historically (cf. Big Bertha, Brown Bess, Mons Meg, etc.); meaning shifted with technology, from cannons to firearms as they developed 15c. Great guns (cannon, etc.) distinguished from small guns (such as muskets) from c.1400. Applied to pistols and revolvers after 1744. Meaning "thief, rascal" is from 1858. Son of a gun is originally nautical. To jump the gun (1912, Amer.Eng.) is from track and field. Guns "a woman's breasts" (especially if prominent) attested by 2006.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gun

I always loved the name Gunilda, never ask a question like that when a hobbyist etymologist is in the house. I was going to give the Oxford English dictionary version but I would have had to type that out and the on line etymological dictionary is easier to cut and paste.

22WRF · 06-30-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

what the heck is a gunnie sargent

The rank of Gunnery Sergeant in the Marine Corps was established by the Navy personnel act of March 3, 1899 (30 Stat. L., 1009) reflecting the duties of Marines in ship's detachments.

Here is pic of our Ships Company 3" 50 Cal Marine Gun Crew (LKA 116, 1972, Nam)

cutter · 06-30-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

"This is my rifle .... this is my gun
this one's for shooting, this one's for fun"

Some of us can draw a mental picture of this little poem .

ponycar17 · 06-30-2012, 10:00 AM

Arghhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Everyone run!!!! He said "GUN"!!!!!

Curtis R · 06-30-2012, 02:56 PM

being former military i love my guns

bluesea112 · 07-01-2012, 07:35 PM

The word "Gun" is short for "Gunna", and "Gunna" is short for "Gunnildr". "Gunnildr" was a Norse woman's name. I think she was a queen or something.

76Highboy · 07-01-2012, 07:46 PM

Great post Alpo. This thread reminds me, I need to buyn more guns.

Old Grump · 07-02-2012, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesea112

The word "Gun" is short for "Gunna", and "Gunna" is short for "Gunnildr". "Gunnildr" was a Norse woman's name. I think she was a queen or something.

See post 11

Gunnhida was the sister of a Danish King and in Norse mythology the daughter of a Norwegian King, they may have been the same person.

06-30-2012, 02:26 AM	#1
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,627	The word 'Gun' Gun is truly a word I don't understand. Firearm - yep, understand that one. Rifle - yep, understand that one too. Pistol - yep, no problem. Shotgun... well, borderline. I think a better name could be used - 'scatter rifle' for instance. Gun... well, I do NOT own guns. I own firearms. I only own a m1911 pistol and a Marlin lever action 30-30 rifle. My rifle I get meat with. The word 'gun' is ugly to me. Granted, I guess I'm a little prejudiced because I'm ex-military, still.. my firearms are not 'guns' -->

06-30-2012, 05:49 AM	#2
wv hillbilly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: mountains of wv. Posts: 2,017	Re: The word 'Gun' what the heck is a gunnie sargent then

06-30-2012, 06:38 AM	#3
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,271	Re: The word 'Gun' How the term "gun" came about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

06-30-2012, 07:31 AM	#4
hardluk1 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: nc mountains Posts: 293	Re: The word 'Gun' Allways seems clear to me.

06-30-2012, 07:38 AM	#5
H-D Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,334	Re: The word 'Gun' Scatter rifle ? Why would you call it that ? All the shotguns I have that "scatter" are smoothbore not "rifled" shotgun= a gun that shoots shot . As for the term "gun" its the media that is trying to make it a dirty word . I hate the term "assault rifle" . __________________ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

06-30-2012, 07:42 AM	#6
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: The word 'Gun' Apparently you don't understand rifle. The original large hollow tube used for throwing rocks at the enemy by the explosion of the Chinese powder was a "gonne". Later they made gonnes smaller and put a stick on them, so they could be carried and used by one man. These were called "hand gonnes". Several centuries later, it was accidentally found that if grooves were cut into the interior of the barrel of a "gonne" (now spelled "gun"), the bullet could be sent more accurately. This new invention was called rifling, and the gun using it was called a "rifled gun". That was, over the years, changed to just "rifle". There were now four types of guns. There was the smoothbore military shoulder arm - the musket. There was the smoothbore hunting gun used for wild birds on the wing - the fowling piece. There was the rifled hunting gun (until the invention of the Minie Ball, the rifle was too slow to reload to be of use by most militaries of the world, and the accuracy was unneeded by the methods of warfare of the time) - the rifle gun. There was the small gun that did not have a stock and was shot one-handed - the pistol, or hand gun. Notice that everyone used a gun of some sort, except the military, which used a musket. The military must have its own terms for everything Gradually the "rifled gun" just became a "rifle" and gun was, more and more, only used for smoothbores, by the ones that "claimed to know". The common people, however, still called them all guns, since they have been guns since they were invented. The "fowling piece" became a "shotgun", since it was smoothbore (therefore, a "gun") and fired "shot" (a bunch of small pieces of lead, instead of one solid projectile). Guns, at the time (both smoothbore and rifled), were measured as to size by the method of weighing lead spheres that would fit the bore. This method is still in use today. Shotgun gauges are like this. 12 solid lead balls, the diameter of the bore of a 12 gauge shotgun, weigh a pound. 16 solid lead balls the diameter of a 16 gauge weigh a pound, 20 the diameter of a 20 gauge weigh a pound, etc. So you might buy a rifle that was advertised as being "20 to the pound" or "32 to the pound". Eventually they stopped doing that with rifled firearms and measured the diameter of the projectile. Comes the War Between the States, and, thanks to the invention of the Minie Ball, which allowed a rifle to be loaded quickly, the Union army was armed with Rifled Muskets. They still used muskets, because they were still the military and must use their own terms, and if you were so stupid or careless as to call your musket a gun, you were chastised and punished. Since these new guns were rifled, they were measured by bullet diameter. Artillery, all through this time, has stayed pretty much the way it started. Hollow tube stopped at one end, throwing a round projectile down a smooth bore, by the explosion of powder. Someone got the bright idea that, if rifling a musket made it more accurate at distance, maybe it will work for a cannon. It did. And, just like with the personal guns, smoothbores were measured by weight (4-pounder, 6-pounder, etc), while the rifled ones were measured by diameter (3-inch gun, a 6-inch gun, etc). By the turn of the 20th Century, the military had quit using muskets of any kind, and were just using rifles. Since the only smoothbores (guns) they still used were cannon, they decided that "gun" would only refer to cannon. And, since cannon are crew-served, "guns" are all "crew-served" weapons. Comes the Gatling Gun. The machine gun. Still crew-served. So it fits as a gun. Notice that, even though they are rifled, no one calls them the M2 Browning Heavy Machine Rifle. You never hear about the M60 Light Machine Rifle. The thing that many people do not seem to realize is that, for the most part, we are not in the military. We do not sleep in a rack, live in a barracks, eat in a mess and urinate in a latrine. So why should we refer to all our guns as weapons and none of our guns as guns? As for that Wiki article. I don't know how accurate the rest of it is. I stopped after the first couple of sentences. When the first thing it says is "A gun is a crew served weapon" - no. In the Army, maybe. But not in the civilian world. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies. Last edited by Alpo; 06-30-2012 at 07:45 AM..

06-30-2012, 08:29 AM	#7
todd51 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central, Ohio Contributor Posts: 2,572	Re: The word 'Gun' Dang Alpo, that was like reading the history of the gun. I guess I knew or have read most of what you just posted but I don't think I have ever seen it in such a short, accurate, easy to understand presentation. That was really well done. Thank you. Maybe we should nick name you the "Professor". __________________ Retired Praefectus Vigilum NRA Endowment Member

06-30-2012, 08:38 AM	#8
JohnHenry Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Livingston county, Michigan Posts: 1,218	Re: The word 'Gun' "This is my rifle .... this is my gun this one's for shooting, this one's for fun" Some of us can draw a mental picture of this little poem . __________________ Freedom .... Is Never Free ! We need Term Limits .... Send the "Professional Politicians" home .

06-30-2012, 09:12 AM	#9
geds Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,706	Re: The word 'Gun' Nice summary Alpo! I have heard pieces separately but never had put it all together either! __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

06-30-2012, 09:13 AM	#10
Brass Tacks Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 553	Re: The word 'Gun' machine gun gunsmith Guns and Ammo Magazine gun control gun cases gun rack gun safe gun fire gun boat gun ship gun powder gun man gun shot wound gun runner gun slinger gun shot residue Have Gun Will Travel Fastest Gun Alive gun walking __________________ The Second Amendment, America's Original Homeland Security I don't know how I got over the hill without ever getting to the top.

06-30-2012, 10:00 AM	#14
ponycar17 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: South Carolina Contributor Posts: 4,884	Re: The word 'Gun' Arghhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Everyone run!!!! He said "GUN"!!!!! __________________ Arm yourself with intellectual Ammunition! Gunfacts 5.1 Myth-Busting Facts JustFacts.com on Gun Control Stopping Power, the Downloadable Book

06-30-2012, 02:56 PM	#15
Curtis R V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: N.C. Posts: 289	Re: The word 'Gun' being former military i love my guns __________________

07-01-2012, 07:35 PM	#16
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: The word 'Gun' The word "Gun" is short for "Gunna", and "Gunna" is short for "Gunnildr". "Gunnildr" was a Norse woman's name. I think she was a queen or something.

07-01-2012, 07:46 PM	#17
76Highboy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Meridian, Idaho Contributor Posts: 6,962	Re: The word 'Gun' Great post Alpo. This thread reminds me, I need to buyn more guns.